3 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I see two options and four outcomes for next year:

Trying to win and actually winning ?

Trying to win and losing 

Trying to lose and winning 

Trying to lose and losing

Only the last one are they proven to be capable of. 

But knowing this franchise they will surprise me and pick something like not having any plan and just treading water. 

 

Spiderman pointing meme

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

He's on the Nationals.

But everyone that wants to try and let the next batch of prospects succeed pretty vocally wants coaches and staff that can actually develop them, not Pedro, who seems philosophically aligned with you.

That requires an entire revamping of the organization. That's the hardest part even aside from player acquisition. It's exactly why the entire tank job won't work again.

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Wow, I had no idea he made it. His numbers in the minors this season are pretty damn good. 

Getting away from the Sox does wonders for your development as a hitter. Probably complexion and self-esteem too.

48 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Wait til people realize the new draft order rules. Sox will be probably worse next year and be guaranteed to pick outside the first 10 picks in 2025. They almost have to be competitive next year or they straight up screwed themselves because of how bad they are this season.

The fun thing is most of the "tankies" likely know this and it's why we (at least I, personally) wanted to bottom it out sans Robert and just let the young guys get their development in now and do the FA spending this offseason.

But Pedro is doing his weird "we must compete with the old guys" dance, so here we are. 

Edit: In the absolute miserable situation that the Sox are a league-worst team again next year, it's only for the first round and I think Shirley has hit on Crochet (ruined to this point by Hahn, player dev and coaching), Montgomery and Schultz, while reserving judgement on a freshly drafted Gonzalez. Those were all outside the top 10.

When I was attending thirty to forty games a year in the 80s and 90s just having a competitive team and seeing a good game was enough. Dropping the payroll and playing guys who should be in AAA developing (tanking) would have been horrible. Not good games and not competitive.

Once I moved things changed a bit. Then the five to ten games I attended didn't have to be great, I enjoyed being back. 

Now being a fan who did not attending any games this year and could easily not attend any next year, I don't care. If that's the fastest route to a multiple championship window, go ahead. I truly feel sorry for those who can and do attend games. 

 

23 minutes ago, Quin said:

He's on the Nationals.

But everyone that wants to try and let the next batch of prospects succeed pretty vocally wants coaches and staff that can actually develop them, not Pedro, who seems philosophically aligned with you.

Looks like I learned something new about Rutherford today. Good for him. He needs to get that OPS above 300 soon though or his cup of cofee isn't gonna last long. 

I want Pedro and all the coaches gone as well. Highly unlikely that happens though as long as Hahn is GM. Sosa should be playing everyday at second and Yaz needs to go so the new kid from Houston can get some run. 

27 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

That requires an entire revamping of the organization. That's the hardest part even aside from player acquisition. It's exactly why the entire tank job won't work again.

yeah but ... as opposed to what

11 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Let's take the Sox front office at face value when they say they are going to be competitive next year. (That doesn't even mean by the way that they'll even have a winning record...)

OK...to be "competitive" this is what they appear to need:

Catcher

2nd base

Right Field

at least 2 starting pitchers

3 bullpen arms

A closer

Maybe a new shortstop

Now how anybody thinks they can do this with a reduced payroll and a mediocre/poor farm system is beyond my limited intelligence.

But that's what they are going to try to continue to sell the fan base...that and "hoping" things work out.

Odds are really, really, really small of that happening. 

They have already lost me. I have absolutely no confidence in this ownership group and front office. Don't try to sell me anything because I ain't buying!

19 minutes ago, Quin said:

The fun thing is most of the "tankies" likely know this and it's why we (at least I, personally) wanted to bottom it out sans Robert and just let the young guys get their development in now and do the FA spending this offseason.

But Pedro is doing his weird "we must compete with the old guys" dance, so here we are. 

Edit: In the absolute miserable situation that the Sox are a league-worst team again next year, it's only for the first round and I think Shirley has hit on Crochet (ruined to this point by Hahn, player dev and coaching), Montgomery and Schultz, while reserving judgement on a freshly drafted Gonzalez. Those were all outside the top 10.

I don't think you can say they've hit on anything outside of Robert. Crochet is in incomplete at best. And availability is an ability. Montgomery and Schultz have shown nothing in the majors. If Montgomery is as good as TA, you lucked out. But you absolutely don't know what you have minus a prospect, certainly nothing to say "Sox hit"

4 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Looks like I learned something new about Rutherford today. Good for him. He needs to get that OPS above 300 soon though or his cup of cofee isn't gonna last long. 

I want Pedro and all the coaches gone as well. Highly unlikely that happens though as long as Hahn is GM. Sosa should be playing everyday at second and Yaz needs to go so the new kid from Houston can get some run. 

Ok so we agree on that.

But I only see them doing that if they punt 2024. If they go for it — I forsee Adam Frazier at best, but more likely Elvis/Remillard unless Sosa has an OPS of 1.000+ or some s%*#. Same with some old catcher that's not Yaz and Seby.

The only reason I see this is because they aren't using the time that they have right now to develop players.

The most sobering thought is this regime doesn't know how to build a contender with most of the pieces. When they are missing a lot of them, there is zero chance. JR's loyalty will be put to the test soon. He remains loyal to all these clowns, his bank account is going to take a huge hit.

Rick Hahn and Pedroil have no clue about excelling at their jobs. Couple of mopes from grade school amateur night.

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

That requires an entire revamping of the organization. That's the hardest part even aside from player acquisition. It's exactly why the entire tank job won't work again.

The other factors and don't think for a moment the Sox haven't already thought of this. A complete "rebuild" yet again turns the spotlight even more on the incompetent front office and admitting another rebuild is needed could cause what remains of the fan base to simply leave the sinking ship or not care anymore.

5 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The other factors and don't think for a moment the Sox haven't already thought of this. A complete "rebuild" yet again turns the spotlight even more on the incompetent front office and admitting another rebuild is needed could cause what remains of the fan base to simply leave the sinking ship or not care anymore.

Then Jerry better be willing to put the money where his mouth is. 

Honestly, as a fan anything short of another rebuild is more likely to bring apathy from me. There is no other way out, from a realistic standpoint. 

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by baseballgalaly

2 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

Then Jerry better be willing to put the money where his mouth is. 

Honestly, as a fan anything short of another rebuild is more likely to bring apathy from me. There is no other way out, from a realistic standpoint. 

I can't remember who amongst the minor league watchers (@DirtySox, @bmags, @Autumn Dreamin, @BamaDoc?) said that they're just waiting for the Hostetler draftees to finally flush out of the system and the Shirley guys to reach the higher levels. 

I'm in that boat (along with Paddy's guys that are now reaching Birmingham and Charlotte). I also want to see guys like Jirschele, Farquhar, and Zaleski get that kind of talent to work with before jettisoning them.

But these guys as pointed out on White Sox reddit? 

 I'm fine launching  a lot of that - especially #1 and #3 - out of a cannon.

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

I can't remember who amongst the minor league watchers (@DirtySox, @bmags, @Autumn Dreamin, @BamaDoc?) said that they're just waiting for the Hostetler draftees to finally flush out of the system and the Shirley guys to reach the higher levels. 

I'm in that boat (along with Paddy's guys that are now reaching Birmingham and Charlotte). I also want to see guys like Jirschele, Farquhar, and Zaleski get that kind of talent to work with before jettisoning them.

But these guys as pointed out on White Sox reddit? 

 I'm fine launching  a lot of that - especially #1 and #3 - out of a cannon.

i'm fine with all of them going. I don't think anyone who grew up in this org could possibly lead it anywhere but where they've been.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

i'm fine with all of them going. I don't think anyone who grew up in this org could possibly lead it anywhere but where they've been.

Mike Shirley becomes the definition of the "I'm trying jennifer" meme.

But also, I understand where you're coming from.

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

Mike Shirley becomes the definition of the "I'm trying jennifer" meme.

But also, I understand where you're coming from.

Mike Shirley also just drafted Jacob Gonzalez and I can't really defend that selection. Hoping for the best obviously, but I'm not sure that guy was really the best player on the board. 

I'm also not a fan of the "guy looked good in the Cape Cod league, then got TJS" college pitcher 2nd round pick he's done 2 years in a row. 

Shirley may be an upgrade on Hostetler, but I'm not sure he's great. 

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by baseballgalaly

29 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The other factors and don't think for a moment the Sox haven't already thought of this. A complete "rebuild" yet again turns the spotlight even more on the incompetent front office and admitting another rebuild is needed could cause what remains of the fan base to simply leave the sinking ship or not care anymore.

So many fans are already at this point. The FO will not admit they are in another rebuild. Hahn carefully has not used that word. But the team is in another rebuild. Does anyone truly believe they will have an active offseason? I would be shocked if they did. Meanwhile, we don't know when the Sox will contend again even in that lousy division.

I don't know what the mindset of the FO is, but I have never seen a team more out of touch. I hope JR will enjoy sitting in his owner's box watching a bad team play in front of an empty stadium.

 

36 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:

Mike Shirley also just drafted Jacob Gonzalez and I can't really defend that selection. Hoping for the best obviously, but I'm not sure that guy was really the best player on the board. 

I'm also not a fan of the "guy looked good in the Cape Cod league, then got TJS" college pitcher 2nd round pick he's done 2 years in a row. 

Shirley may be an upgrade on Hostetler, but I'm not sure he's great. 

I think the same stuff that led to getting Taylor I could argue would apply to Schulz, who also lost his senior year to mono or something. And their belief in Colson came from his improved approach in his last handfull of high school games. They don't really seem to care about small sample sizes if they've showed a new ability.

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think the same stuff that led to getting Taylor I could argue would apply to Schulz, who also lost his senior year to mono or something. And their belief in Colson came from his improved approach in his last handfull of high school games. They don't really seem to care about small sample sizes if they've showed a new ability.

I was talking about Pallette, not Schultz. 

3 hours ago, Quin said:

The fun thing is most of the "tankies" likely know this and it's why we (at least I, personally) wanted to bottom it out sans Robert and just let the young guys get their development in now and do the FA spending this offseason.

But Pedro is doing his weird "we must compete with the old guys" dance, so here we are. 

Edit: In the absolute miserable situation that the Sox are a league-worst team again next year, it's only for the first round and I think Shirley has hit on Crochet (ruined to this point by Hahn, player dev and coaching), Montgomery and Schultz, while reserving judgement on a freshly drafted Gonzalez. Those were all outside the top 10.

Why would you tear everything down and keep Robert? You gotta move Robert if you are planning another tank job. 

1 hour ago, Highland said:

So many fans are already at this point. The FO will not admit they are in another rebuild. Hahn carefully has not used that word. But the team is in another rebuild. Does anyone truly believe they will have an active offseason? I would be shocked if they did. Meanwhile, we don't know when the Sox will contend again even in that lousy division.

I don't know what the mindset of the FO is, but I have never seen a team more out of touch. I hope JR will enjoy sitting in his owner's box watching a bad team play in front of an empty stadium.

 

I think it will be more active than people think. Of course there won't be a big splash free agent signing like Shotei or Bellinger, but the Sox will be active. They will sign some veteran starting pitchers like Luis Severino and Steven Matz to short deals. Probably a couple position players like Ahmed Rosario and Tommy PHam as well. They also have a decent farm now as well and will likely move a few prospects. 

3 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

A+ post, but Blake Rutherford is somehow playing major league baseball as it stands right now.

And Alex Call just recently had a higher fWAR than Vaughn Anderson Abreu...

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Dioner…although Dinner might be more appropriate in retirement now.

"Dinner" would've been a great nickname for Jaime Navarro.