"Sheets declined to elaborate on things that went wrong. But reliever Keynan Middleton publicly questioned the culture in the clubhouse after he was traded in late August, and it’s known the bond between Latin and American players is not as cohesive as it could be. Hitters have been divided by their allegiance to the hitting coaches, not an uncommon occurrence on teams with multiple hitting voices. And there have been leadership (or lack thereof) vacuums."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/9/14/23874332/white-sox-need-to-know-what-went-wrong-what-needs-to-be-fixed

It’s truly amazing that Grifol is being allowed to return.

33 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s truly amazing that Grifol is being allowed to return.

and Gavin Sheets

47 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"Sheets declined to elaborate on things that went wrong. But reliever Keynan Middleton publicly questioned the culture in the clubhouse after he was traded in late August, and it’s known the bond between Latin and American players is not as cohesive as it could be. Hitters have been divided by their allegiance to the hitting coaches, not an uncommon occurrence on teams with multiple hitting voices. And there have been leadership (or lack thereof) vacuums."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/9/14/23874332/white-sox-need-to-know-what-went-wrong-what-needs-to-be-fixed

So the issues is language? I can see that.

Well, we knew that Sheets and Burger were really close and used a lot of the same tech as well as likely shared hitting philosophies....not that it helped Gavin much this year.

Might as well trade him as a platoon (maybe) DH to Baltimore and reconnect him with his father's MLB legacy because he has no future in Chicago.

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, we knew that Sheets and Burger were really close and used a lot of the same tech as well as likely shared hitting philosophies....not that it helped Gavin much this year.

Might as well trade him as a platoon (maybe) DH to Baltimore and reconnect him with his father's MLB legacy because he has no future in Chicago.

But who would play RF?

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, we knew that Sheets and Burger were really close and used a lot of the same tech as well as likely shared hitting philosophies....not that it helped Gavin much this year.

Might as well trade him as a platoon (maybe) DH to Baltimore and reconnect him with his father's MLB legacy because he has no future in Chicago.

9-71 vs LHP in his career 

14 minutes ago, fathom said:

9-71 vs LHP in his career 

Feels like that was Zavala against all pitchers this season...

Another article to get more depressed over the White Sox, it’s going to take more than a miracle to fix everything that is wrong with the team and the franchise. I don’t like hearing that there might be problems with dissension along racial lines. I don’t envy Getz as he has a monumental job ahead of him especially when he has to answer to a jerk of an owner.

As far as Sheets goes, I always liked him but he has struggled and it makes you wonder if he would have been better with better coaching at both the Minor and Major league levels.

 

Edited September 15, 20232 yr by The Mighty Mite

Issues in the clubhouse? Nooooooo…..

13 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

But who would play RF?

Lyle Mouton at this rate...

15 hours ago, fathom said:

It’s truly amazing that Grifol is being allowed to return.

It’s not amazing, it’s depressing.  It would be amazing if we didn’t all know this was happening when it was announced,  but nope we all pretty much knew the worst possible decisions would start rolling in one after another.

 

nah, not amazing any longer 

34 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Another article to get more depressed over the White Sox, it’s going to take more than a miracle to fix everything that is wrong with the team and the franchise. I don’t like hearing that there might be problems with dissension along racial lines. I don’t envy Getz as he has a monumental job ahead of him especially when he has to answer to a jerk of an owner.

As far as Sheets goes, I always liked him but he has struggled and it makes you wonder if he would have been better with better coaching at both the Minor and Major league levels.

 

I was told this by sources over the winter:

“The problem with this team is there was no real leadership, nobody to hold guys accountable. No red-asses like the Sox had in the past… Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, A.J. Pierzynski. Paul Konerko was a quiet guy but when we weren’t doing well he’d get really pissed. Elvis Andrus tried to supply some leadership when he came and Lucas Giolito tried.”

“I’d come into the locker room after a game and you couldn’t tell if they won or lost, just nothing.”

“You’d go in the locker room and all the Latino guys would be in one place, the whites in another and the African-Americans someplace else.”

“I had heard that groups were apart and not close but part of that could be human nature, language divisions for example. I know the Latin guys were always around Jose’s locker, Moncada was always there. The Sox locker room is a big square so guys aren’t close to start with, the Cubs locker room is circular. I don’t know if that was by design or what but that lends itself to guys getting together.”

“The problem is some of these guys just don’t care, they want to win sure but they already have gotten their money with these contracts before they proved anything. Moncada would strike out and just walk back to the dugout like no big deal, he fouls a ball off and now he can’t play for three days? His contract makes him untradable but he needs to go.”

 

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I was told this by sources over the winter:

“The problem with this team is there was no real leadership, nobody to hold guys accountable. No red-asses like the Sox had in the past… Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, A.J. Pierzynski. Paul Konerko was a quiet guy but when we weren’t doing well he’d get really pissed. Elvis Andrus tried to supply some leadership when he came and Lucas Giolito tried.”

“I’d come into the locker room after a game and you couldn’t tell if they won or lost, just nothing.”

“You’d go in the locker room and all the Latino guys would be in one place, the whites in another and the African-Americans someplace else.”

“I had heard that groups were apart and not close but part of that could be human nature, language divisions for example. I know the Latin guys were always around Jose’s locker, Moncada was always there. The Sox locker room is a big square so guys aren’t close to start with, the Cubs locker room is circular. I don’t know if that was by design or what but that lends itself to guys getting together.”

“The problem is some of these guys just don’t care, they want to win sure but they already have gotten their money with these contracts before they proved anything. Moncada would strike out and just walk back to the dugout like no big deal, he fouls a ball off and now he can’t play for three days? His contract makes him untradable but he needs to go.”

 

Makes you wonder if Abreu was really the team leader, sounds like he was just the leader of the Latinos, makes me wonder why he decided to leave the Sox and sign with the Astros. One thing bothered me about Abreu, he was with the Sox nine years and as far as I know he never learned the English language, I never heard him being interviewed, sort of strange. As I said, this is not good and how you rectify it remains to be seen. 

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Makes you wonder if Abreu was really the team leader, sounds like he was just the leader of the Latinos, makes me wonder why he decided to leave the Sox and sign with the Astros. One thing bothered me about Abreu, he was with the Sox nine years and as far as I know he never learned the English language, I never heard him being interviewed, sort of strange. As I said, this is not good and how you rectify it remains to be seen. 

Abreu did not decide to leave the Sox.  They said “bye”

Pedro Grifol said ALL the right things when getting hired and everyone gave him a fair shake. 

After the season, there is no reason anyone in the front office can think he is the right direction going forward.  Pedro Grifol has embarrased himself just about daily and has not earned the chance to stay in the White Sox dugout.  Admit a mistake and make it right and move on.  No reason to waste another season.

19 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"Sheets declined to elaborate on things that went wrong. But reliever Keynan Middleton publicly questioned the culture in the clubhouse after he was traded in late August, and it’s known the bond between Latin and American players is not as cohesive as it could be. Hitters have been divided by their allegiance to the hitting coaches, not an uncommon occurrence on teams with multiple hitting voices. And there have been leadership (or lack thereof) vacuums."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2023/9/14/23874332/white-sox-need-to-know-what-went-wrong-what-needs-to-be-fixed

Well, Gavin, you posting a 65 wRC+ while providing no defensive value of any kind was certainly a contributing factor.  Why is this clown playing RF? I know these games don't count, but I'd literally rather watch anyone else play RF.  Let another game get out of hand last night trying gator arm a ball down the line that just about any league average OF catches with ease. 

17 hours ago, fathom said:

9-71 vs LHP in his career 

That's so bad. When you try to hit a home run every pitch and it's lefty vs. lefty you are not going to have much success. These modern hitters don't believe in slashing singles the oppo way when it's lefty/lefty. They'd rather fail 90 percent of the time. Trade Sheets please. Dump him.

17 hours ago, fathom said:

9-71 vs LHP in his career 

Korey Lee needs to go 2-6 to be 9-71 in his career.

21 hours ago, fathom said:

It’s truly amazing that Grifol is being allowed to return.

It takes a LOT for Jerry to fire a coach when they have multiple years left on their contract. Pedro basically has to kill somebody to get canned. 

WOW 26 men from around the world, in ages from their early 20s to late 30s, some married,  some with kids, some single,  some dating with wife and kids, don't hang together all the time. 

SHOCKING!! 

 

7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I was told this by sources over the winter:

“The problem with this team is there was no real leadership, nobody to hold guys accountable. No red-asses like the Sox had in the past… Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, A.J. Pierzynski. Paul Konerko was a quiet guy but when we weren’t doing well he’d get really pissed. Elvis Andrus tried to supply some leadership when he came and Lucas Giolito tried.”

“I’d come into the locker room after a game and you couldn’t tell if they won or lost, just nothing.”

“You’d go in the locker room and all the Latino guys would be in one place, the whites in another and the African-Americans someplace else.”

“I had heard that groups were apart and not close but part of that could be human nature, language divisions for example. I know the Latin guys were always around Jose’s locker, Moncada was always there. The Sox locker room is a big square so guys aren’t close to start with, the Cubs locker room is circular. I don’t know if that was by design or what but that lends itself to guys getting together.”

“The problem is some of these guys just don’t care, they want to win sure but they already have gotten their money with these contracts before they proved anything. Moncada would strike out and just walk back to the dugout like no big deal, he fouls a ball off and now he can’t play for three days? His contract makes him untradable but he needs to go.”

 

Oh that's right. We are in the temper tantrum era of sports that if they don't destroy things or throw fits they don't care.  OVAHRATED!!!!!!!!!!!

How many HoF players in sports are know for this?

Edited September 15, 20232 yr by kitekrazy

7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I was told this by sources over the winter:

“The problem with this team is there was no real leadership, nobody to hold guys accountable. No red-asses like the Sox had in the past… Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, A.J. Pierzynski. Paul Konerko was a quiet guy but when we weren’t doing well he’d get really pissed. Elvis Andrus tried to supply some leadership when he came and Lucas Giolito tried.”

“I’d come into the locker room after a game and you couldn’t tell if they won or lost, just nothing.”

“You’d go in the locker room and all the Latino guys would be in one place, the whites in another and the African-Americans someplace else.”

“I had heard that groups were apart and not close but part of that could be human nature, language divisions for example. I know the Latin guys were always around Jose’s locker, Moncada was always there. The Sox locker room is a big square so guys aren’t close to start with, the Cubs locker room is circular. I don’t know if that was by design or what but that lends itself to guys getting together.”

“The problem is some of these guys just don’t care, they want to win sure but they already have gotten their money with these contracts before they proved anything. Moncada would strike out and just walk back to the dugout like no big deal, he fouls a ball off and now he can’t play for three days? His contract makes him untradable but he needs to go.”

 

Clearly, all issues would be solved by a circular locker room.

21 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, we knew that Sheets and Burger were really close and used a lot of the same tech as well as likely shared hitting philosophies....not that it helped Gavin much this year.

Might as well trade him as a platoon (maybe) DH to Baltimore and reconnect him with his father's MLB legacy because he has no future in Chicago.

LOL!  Not every organization has a naive GM.  I only know of one for sure.  If he got traded it will most likely be for someone far worse.  But he is one of those players you don't want to see anymore.  He's the new Leury.

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Clearly, all issues would be solved by a circular locker room.

And Paul O'Neill as the manager...