Mlb.com Sox projected lineup and rotation is out

[Balta1701]

56 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There are a lot of ways to come to that conclusion. If all you look at is offensive and defensive metrics that's your likely conclusion.

However if you want Cease and the rest of the staff to pitch well enough to be traded for more than we expect, a veteran catcher calling a good game recognizing his pitcher's strengths and weaknesses and making adjustments on the fly may be a positive influence.

That to me is the main reason to play the season. Get as much as u can for Cease and others . For catchers his preparation , knowledge, intelligence might mean more to the Sox future than any other player. I guarantee he'll be catching Cease.

The thing with Maldonado is that “he handles the staff well” has become a self fulfilling prophecy. He must handle the staff well because everyone says he handles the staff well.

Last year, Framber Valdez throws a no hitter and it’s because Maldy called a great game. Valdez gives up 6 runs and it’s because Valdez had an off day or wasn’t prepped. It could never have been Maldy’s fault because he calls a great game.

Several of the Astros starters had down years last year especially in the second half, but Maldy can’t bear responsibility for that. Hunter Brown has a lower ERA throwing to Diaz, he threw to Diaz in the minors, but we have to spend the second half having him throw to Maldonado because Maldonado has to start playoff games, not the guy with the OPS like 300 points higher, better defense, and better work with that pitcher. Then, Brown has a bad enough second half that he isn’t in the playoff rotation, but that can’t be Maldy’s fault because we know he calls a great game so it must be the pitcher not understanding his greatness.

Maldonado calling a great game, for Dusty at the end, was Leury having a good day in the batting cages for LaRussa. It was a truth that couldn’t be challenged by anyone, even if it doesn’t look good. These pitchers had bad games - that’s not on Maldonado, ever.

I think the Astros are better led and that limited it from being a problem, but I think we’d have seen Dusty’s deference to this player become a real problem this year if Dusty had come back, one of those that really causes a break with the GM and coaches. It started to last year because people around here could recognize the struggling rotation pieces and how Awful Maldonado was with the bat, and there was an awful lot of talk about it. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The thing with Maldonado is that “he handles the staff well” has become a self fulfilling prophecy. He must handle the staff well because everyone says he handles the staff well.

Last year, Framber Valdez throws a no hitter and it’s because Maldy called a great game. Valdez gives up 6 runs and it’s because Valdez had an off day or wasn’t prepped. It could never have been Maldy’s fault because he calls a great game.

Several of the Astros starters had down years last year especially in the second half, but Maldy can’t bear responsibility for that. Hunter Brown has a lower ERA throwing to Diaz, he threw to Diaz in the minors, but we have to spend the second half having him throw to Maldonado because Maldonado has to start playoff games, not the guy with the OPS like 300 points higher, better defense, and better work with that pitcher. Then, Brown has a bad enough second half that he isn’t in the playoff rotation, but that can’t be Maldy’s fault because we know he calls a great game so it must be the pitcher not understanding his greatness.

Maldonado calling a great game, for Dusty at the end, was Leury having a good day in the batting cages for LaRussa. It was a truth that couldn’t be challenged by anyone, even if it doesn’t look good. These pitchers had bad games - that’s not on Maldonado, ever.

I think the Astros are better led and that limited it from being a problem, but I think we’d have seen Dusty’s deference to this player become a real problem this year if Dusty had come back, one of those that really causes a break with the GM and coaches. It started to last year because people around here could recognize the struggling rotation pieces and how Awful Maldonado was with the bat, and there was an awful lot of talk about it. 

I'm trying to see a sliver of a silver lining. 😉

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The thing with Maldonado is that “he handles the staff well” has become a self fulfilling prophecy. He must handle the staff well because everyone says he handles the staff well.

Last year, Framber Valdez throws a no hitter and it’s because Maldy called a great game. Valdez gives up 6 runs and it’s because Valdez had an off day or wasn’t prepped. It could never have been Maldy’s fault because he calls a great game.

Several of the Astros starters had down years last year especially in the second half, but Maldy can’t bear responsibility for that. Hunter Brown has a lower ERA throwing to Diaz, he threw to Diaz in the minors, but we have to spend the second half having him throw to Maldonado because Maldonado has to start playoff games, not the guy with the OPS like 300 points higher, better defense, and better work with that pitcher. Then, Brown has a bad enough second half that he isn’t in the playoff rotation, but that can’t be Maldy’s fault because we know he calls a great game so it must be the pitcher not understanding his greatness.

Maldonado calling a great game, for Dusty at the end, was Leury having a good day in the batting cages for LaRussa. It was a truth that couldn’t be challenged by anyone, even if it doesn’t look good. These pitchers had bad games - that’s not on Maldonado, ever.

I think the Astros are better led and that limited it from being a problem, but I think we’d have seen Dusty’s deference to this player become a real problem this year if Dusty had come back, one of those that really causes a break with the GM and coaches. It started to last year because people around here could recognize the struggling rotation pieces and how Awful Maldonado was with the bat, and there was an awful lot of talk about it. 

Bro you coulda just said catcher ERA isn't a thing?

[caulfield12]

50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The thing with Maldonado is that “he handles the staff well” has become a self fulfilling prophecy. He must handle the staff well because everyone says he handles the staff well.

Last year, Framber Valdez throws a no hitter and it’s because Maldy called a great game. Valdez gives up 6 runs and it’s because Valdez had an off day or wasn’t prepped. It could never have been Maldy’s fault because he calls a great game.

Several of the Astros starters had down years last year especially in the second half, but Maldy can’t bear responsibility for that. Hunter Brown has a lower ERA throwing to Diaz, he threw to Diaz in the minors, but we have to spend the second half having him throw to Maldonado because Maldonado has to start playoff games, not the guy with the OPS like 300 points higher, better defense, and better work with that pitcher. Then, Brown has a bad enough second half that he isn’t in the playoff rotation, but that can’t be Maldy’s fault because we know he calls a great game so it must be the pitcher not understanding his greatness.

Maldonado calling a great game, for Dusty at the end, was Leury having a good day in the batting cages for LaRussa. It was a truth that couldn’t be challenged by anyone, even if it doesn’t look good. These pitchers had bad games - that’s not on Maldonado, ever.

I think the Astros are better led and that limited it from being a problem, but I think we’d have seen Dusty’s deference to this player become a real problem this year if Dusty had come back, one of those that really causes a break with the GM and coaches. It started to last year because people around here could recognize the struggling rotation pieces and how Awful Maldonado was with the bat, and there was an awful lot of talk about it. 

And we already know that Maldonado has suddenly become the annointed one, like a manager in waiting/training, so Grifol's not going to stand in his way, either.

He certainly wasn't going to step aside and tutor Lee.

Edited February 14 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Bro you coulda just said catcher ERA isn't a thing?

I haven’t found the numbers for the full team but their starters did not have better ERAs throwing to Maldonado. 

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm trying to see a sliver of a silver lining. 😉

I get what Getz is trying to do, but I do feel like he believes he can import a culture by bringing in his correct Vetz, and praise be to Maldy fits with that. But I think the Sox have had plenty of vets rip them upon leaving - Keuchel, Lynn, Middleton, and that tell me something about the idea of importing leaders rather than having a solid organizational footing.

If you want a silver lining, aside from $15 million or so spent on his Vetz, Getz did not make things worse. No trades for Perez, no prospects given up, no Hahn “we are one player away” backloaded signings. I don’t like the “overpay for guys I like and former Royals” mentality, but it is way better than the Hahn way.

[chitownsportsfan]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I haven’t found the numbers for the full team but their starters did not have better ERAs throwing to Maldonado. 

@caulfield12give this man back his password.

I get what you're saying, I'm just busting your chops. There are probably people on this forum that love the signing but this TWTW s%*# never works we all know that. It was a dumpster dive of a move almost like made to keep the clubhouse from having zero older latin leaders. I mean maybe it will help them, who knows. It's certainly not a move that you'd hope Getz will be making 2 years from now. If he is, we're just back in the same hell with a different GM.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

At least the losses will look cleaner, rather than the throwing the ball all over or just not making plays or not getting to balls.

I don't know why you guys think Sox defense will be good. Lopez is done, finished. DeJong? My gawd. How depressing. Beni no arm. That guy in right? He's 5 foot 6 or something. Catcher? Oldie not a goodie. Seems to me the weak 7 thru 9 part of the lineup, the bullpen, we have enough areas of concern that will cause the Sox to lose a vast majority of games, even the games they somehow keep it close.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I get what Getz is trying to do, but I do feel like he believes he can import a culture by bringing in his correct Vetz, and praise be to Maldy fits with that. But I think the Sox have had plenty of vets rip them upon leaving - Keuchel, Lynn, Middleton, and that tell me something about the idea of importing leaders rather than having a solid organizational footing.

If you want a silver lining, aside from $15 million or so spent on his Vetz, Getz did not make things worse. No trades for Perez, no prospects given up, no Hahn “we are one player away” backloaded signings. I don’t like the “overpay for guys I like and former Royals” mentality, but it is way better than the Hahn way.

I had said quite a while ago I didn't think Perez and Whitfield would be coming here based on cost alone.

Still a chance for Whit until he signs. Might be a good thing Getz wasn't given a bigger payroll. Less chance to make it worse. Scraps was all he could get. Fedde was the big signing. Not sure given the amount of FAs left but he might've been able to get more. Hard to know. He's probably happy he got what he did from the Sox.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I had said quite a while ago I didn't think Perez and Whitfield would be coming here based on cost alone.

Still a chance for Whit until he signs. Might be a good thing Getz wasn't given a bigger payroll. Less chance to make it worse. Scraps was all he could get. Fedde was the big signing. Not sure given the amount of FAs left but he might've been able to get more. Hard to know. He's probably happy he got what he did from the Sox.

No reason to chase a higher payroll as a fix to 80 wins or 75 even. Just take the year to reset. That's all we can expect from Getz in my opinion. He's not gonna rock the boat but just realizing the reality of the roster would be a good start.

[caulfield12]

24 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

@caulfield12give this man back his password.

I get what you're saying, I'm just busting your chops. There are probably people on this forum that love the signing but this TWTW s%*# never works we all know that. It was a dumpster dive of a move almost like made to keep the clubhouse from having zero older latin leaders. I mean maybe it will help them, who knows. It's certainly not a move that you'd hope Getz will be making 2 years from now. If he is, we're just back in the same hell with a different GM.

It's almost like with Abreu and now Grandal gone...suddenly they still have to worry about someone keeping Robert Moncada Eloy in check to an extent.  Certainly not coming from Grifol and Montoyo.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, wegner said:

1. I don't hate Benintendi like many here, probably because I couldn't stand AJ "I don't want to be here" Pollock. Andrew hit well in the leadoff spot last year for a nice stretch. Hopefully his hand is fully healed and we will see more power.

I have reason for optimism as well, thought want to clarify I don't believe most here, or anyone in fact, hate or even dislike Andrew Benintendi. They hate his terrible contract. Felt the same way for Grandal.

Boston, Clevinger, Lynn, Kelly and Keuchel on the other hand.....

4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

On paper I'm struggling to see 100 home runs out of that entire starting lineup. We had 171 last year. Can we finish dead last this year? Even playing half our games at G-Rate? Maybe I can put some money on it.

FanGraphs ZIPS Depth Charts (accounting for projected playing time) has them at 14 more HRs than 2023. Eloy's projected games played seems like a stretch, but everything else appears reachable.

Projected fWAR / Player / Projected HRs (Projected Games Played)

1. 4.6 Luis Robert Jr. 33 (149)
2. 2.2 Yoan Moncada 17 (143)
3. 1.7 Andrew Vaughn 25 (146)
4. 1.5 Eloy Jimenez 26 (141)
5. 1.5 Andrew Benintendi 10 (138)
6. 1.1 Max Stassi 8 (65)
7. 0.8 Paul DeJong 13 (76)
8. 0.7 Nicky Lopez 2 (91)
9. 0.7 Colson Montgomery 6 (53)
10. 0.5 Dominic Fletcher 9 (99) 
11. 0.3 Braden Shewmake 4 (34)
12. 0.3 Lenyn Sosa 5 (36)
13. 0.2 Danny Mendick 2 (26)
14. 0.1 Korey Lee 3 (29)
15. 0.1 Jose Rodriguez 3 (26)
16. 0.0 Oscar Colas 2 (11)
17. 0.0 Zach DeLoach 1 (8)
18. -0.1 Gavin Sheets 9 (63)
19. -0.6 Martin Maldonado 7 (68)

[Quin]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There are a lot of ways to come to that conclusion. If all you look at is offensive and defensive metrics that's your likely conclusion.

However if you want Cease and the rest of the staff to pitch well enough to be traded for more than we expect, a veteran catcher calling a good game recognizing his pitcher's strengths and weaknesses and making adjustments on the fly may be a positive influence.

That to me is the main reason to play the season. Get as much as u can for Cease and others . For catchers his preparation , knowledge, intelligence might mean more to the Sox future than any other player. I guarantee he'll be catching Cease.

Wait, what else are supposed to look at? Swaggermetrics?

Considering I wasn't able to watch a bunch of Astros games, I'll go off of what their fans - and the numbers - conclude: He's garbage at pitch framing and defense. If defense and pitch framing is important, Seby blows him out of the water like a nuclear submarine.

[chitownsportsfan]

17 minutes ago, Quin said:

Wait, what else are supposed to look at? Swaggermetrics?

Considering I wasn't able to watch a bunch of Astros games, I'll go off of what their fans - and the numbers - conclude: He's garbage at pitch framing and defense. If defense and pitch framing is important, Seby blows him out of the water like a nuclear submarine.

If we're going on Swaggermetrics, we're fucking bottom tier. Hard to have swag when you stink.

[WestEddy]

3 hours ago, chw42 said:

But does he know how to win when he is surrounded by the talent of a 65 win team? 

He will teach them the secret. And Fletcher will teach them luck. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, Quin said:

Wait, what else are supposed to look at? Swaggermetrics?

Considering I wasn't able to watch a bunch of Astros games, I'll go off of what their fans - and the numbers - conclude: He's garbage at pitch framing and defense. If defense and pitch framing is important, Seby blows him out of the water like a nuclear submarine.

I never said not to look at those things. If you want to find negatives they are very easy to find in all things White Sox. That's simple picking the low hanging fruit. If Maldonado is your favorite fruit ,great ,have at it and ignore the rest of my post to focus on the opening statement that said the same thing you said , by all accounts he sucked.

The whole point of the season is to turn trash into gold because that's pretty much the point of any rebuild where constantly you're not allowed high draft picks.

If trading pitching gets you the most picks and the only option Getz  was given by monetary constraints was to make the pitching look as good as possible and defense and a veteran catcher was his priority, fine by me.

It's almost spring. I'm good with optimism on occasion . I bash more than my fair share of Soxcapades.

[Quin]

And I try to be an eternal optimist.

But after JR and Getz have been going on about doing things the "right way," Maldonado is just sign that — unless he's going to the Bonds School of Career Resurgence — we're going to continue to commit money (that cumulatively adds up) to s%*# players that they'll continue to sell us as difference makers for one reason or another.

[chitownsportsfan]

15 minutes ago, Quin said:

And I try to be an eternal optimist.

But after JR and Getz have been going on about doing things the "right way," Maldonado is just sign that — unless he's going to the Bonds School of Career Resurgence — we're going to continue to commit money (that cumulatively adds up) to s%*# players that they'll continue to sell us as difference makers for one reason or another.

My hope is that it's just coach speak. But this dumb mofo came in last year promising the moon and delivered a garbage dump so yea, hard to be optimistic. If the org really thinks this guy is an above replacement level manager than the Getz era will follow the general path of the Hahn era most likely.

[caulfield12]

Swagger Factor 0 with Tim Anderson gone and already halfway forgotten...the days of DQ sponsorships and video game covers and Jackie Robinson and FoD walkoffs, seem so far removed that it almost never even happened.

[chitownsportsfan]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Swagger Factor 0 with Tim Anderson gone and already halfway forgotten...the days of DQ sponsorships and video game covers and Jackie Robinson and FoD walkoffs, seem so far removed that it almost never even happened.

Between his baby mama drama and his on field play TA had negative swagger the last two seasons. Dude just fell off.

[Snopek]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:30 AM, Bob Sacamano said:

I’m just assuming we will get the motivated version who maybe hits better than previous seasons

 

On 2/13/2024 at 7:37 AM, Tnetennba said:

A healthy and motivated Moncada could do wonders for this mess of a lineup. Here’s to hoping. 

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I've always felt his struggles were due to injuries and not at all motivation. I don't really have anything concrete to base that on, and I get why many think otherwise.

Either way, it's a relief knowing I only have one more season to blindly defend him.

[Tnetennba]

18 minutes ago, Snopek said:

 

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I've always felt his struggles were due to injuries and not at all motivation. I don't really have anything concrete to base that on, and I get why many think otherwise.

Either way, it's a relief knowing I only have one more season to blindly defend him.

I've been one of Moncada's biggest defenders over his time here, but even I hit my limit.  I just hope he plays well enough to be moved at the deadline.

[pcq]

20 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s why KW/JR always employed the offense >>> defense strategy in the 2000’s.

Aim for second or third place and at least entertain the fans.

Cleaner losses are still going to be losses, and then we will have to listen to Grifol-isms to top it off.

Nothing more demoralizing than a sub par offensive team that lacks the ability to come back in games…paired with a bullpen that consistently blows tight and late leads.

Feel much more confident somehow about the bullpen than the offense, though.

 

Still would have preferred fewer veterans and going out on a limb for veteran rehabbers like Hendriks or Woodruff on two year incentive-laden deals.

OK Gertz is going fundamentals and we have Sheets to match up with the visiting sluggers who will bash our brains in. 🧠 It takes years after havin' Gavin to find a couple of decent sluggers. 

[Texsox]

21 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly why I have no idea Maldonado got $4.25 million and Grandal got $2.5 million.

Because the owners bring in billions. If they don't pay salaries like that, they will earn obscene profits. 

Remember during the strike how fans wanted the players to all get a bigger share? 

[Lip Man 1]

22 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Because the owners bring in billions. If they don't pay salaries like that, they will earn obscene profits. 

Remember during the strike how fans wanted the players to all get a bigger share? 

This at least is a very true statement. If they weren't making money, and these are smart business people remember since they were able to come up with the funds to actually own a team, they wouldn't be paying anythong close to what some guys are getting.

I shed no tears for the owners.