16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

There is a different mentality though in starting vs. relieving which I think gets into what Katz said. I know some people will say its "fluff" but its true. If you know you are going to face a pitcher 2 or 3 times, you are thinking about how you set them up now and down the road (I laugh when I type this - cause 10 years ago it would have been 3 or more times not 2 or 3 times).

But as a reliever - you know this is all you got - so you are going to give it all you got (whether its 1 inning or 2 innings - you know that is it).  I tend to think this also better fits Kopech's personality and mentality too.  Add in the injury issues and other things - I wonder just how much Kopech is thinking vs. throwing and being aggressive when he's on the mound as a starter. 

Note: He very much could still suck - but that means he would have FOR SURE stunk as a starter, so I really see this as a no-brainer move and I'm going to be an optimist here and say as long as Kopech is healthy - this will pay off and we'll see him develop into a high leverage reliever.  

Oh for sure. Having him concentrate on one inning  per outing might help him mentally. I don't know what it will take for him to figure it out, but starting just wasn't working.

20 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

There is a different mentality though in starting vs. relieving which I think gets into what Katz said. I know some people will say its "fluff" but its true. If you know you are going to face a pitcher 2 or 3 times, you are thinking about how you set them up now and down the road (I laugh when I type this - cause 10 years ago it would have been 3 or more times not 2 or 3 times).

But as a reliever - you know this is all you got - so you are going to give it all you got (whether its 1 inning or 2 innings - you know that is it).  I tend to think this also better fits Kopech's personality and mentality too.  Add in the injury issues and other things - I wonder just how much Kopech is thinking vs. throwing and being aggressive when he's on the mound as a starter. 

Note: He very much could still suck - but that means he would have FOR SURE stunk as a starter, so I really see this as a no-brainer move and I'm going to be an optimist here and say as long as Kopech is healthy - this will pay off and we'll see him develop into a high leverage reliever.  

How often are they going to have a lead in the late innings though? Gonna be pretty rare. 

If anyone read Keith Law's 2023 write up on Zavala, you would be giddy.

 

The Padres signed Zavala in January of 2021 for $1.2 million, part of the delayed signing period due to the pandemic. He went out and posted a .400 OBP that summer as a 16-year-old in the DSL, one of only four regulars that young in the league and the only one to top even a .340 OBP. He started last year in extended spring training, blasted through the Arizona League in 10 games (.345/.412/.621), then hit .254/.355/.508 in six weeks in Low A. He was the only 17-year-old to get 100 plate appearances in full-season ball last year, but posted a median OBP for the level and was in the top 15 percent of all hitters there in slugging (same minimum of 100 PA). He has absurd bat speed, rifling the bat through the zone with big hip rotation for hard contact and power, while he’s already shown unusual plate discipline for his age, especially when it comes to laying off pitches out of the zone. As a defender, he shows good instincts and routes, playing center so far more than right, but the odds are he’ll move to the corner in the long term.

1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

How often are they going to have a lead in the late innings though? Gonna be pretty rare. 

Well, the A's won 50 games last season and had 29 saves, I don't know how many they blew so might be in the 30's as far as those opportunity. If you think the Sox are going to be a 60 win team, he should have chances late in games.

6 minutes ago, T R U said:

Well, the A's won 50 games last season and had 29 saves, I don't know how many they blew so might be in the 30's as far as those opportunity. If you think the Sox are going to be a 60 win team, he should have chances late in games.

I think they're gonna be around as bad as the A's were last year. Maybe even historically bad

29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Most of the guys they traded where worse than the guys they just got for Cease. You complain if they trade them, you complain if they acquire them. The good news is this new hitting coach is the bomb. Paul Dejong is fixed. Look at his spring training stats.

They traded away $100 in value to get back $10 in those trades.

They traded away $10 in value to get back $5 in value this time.

Your argument: "You complain whether they take back $10 or trade away $10, you have to like one of those."

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

. As a defender, he shows good instincts and routes, playing center so far more than right, but the odds are he’ll move to the corner in the long term.

While the OBP part is nice, this part is the big concern. The bat needs to develop to be elite if he's going to drop to a corner outfield spot. 

This is basically the same thing the Sox did with ReyLo a few years ago. He wasn’t cutting it as a starter, and then improved a lot out of the bullpen. Hopefully Kopech will be the same way so they can trade him for something.

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

While the OBP part is nice, this part is the big concern. The bat needs to develop to be elite if he's going to drop to a corner outfield spot. 

Why does the bat have to be elite to be a good RF?

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

What exactly should it be telling us ? The only thing it tells me is people who expect coaches to work miracles with athletes in a month or 2 are delusional. Kopech isn't anyone's sole responsibility.

We all knew this team is filled with projects and just turning a few of them into tradable assets by the trade deadline would be a long shot. Getz is just playing the shitty hand JR dealt him from a stacked deck.

Yeah I don't know what the expectation is for a coach or an executive. I had/have optimism about the Bannister hiring because of the systems he put in place at his previous job (or at least took credit for). Hopefully the Sox can institute developmental systems that allow players to reach their potential. That's a little different than teaching a 27-year-old fifth year veteran how to throw the ball over the plate in a month. Especially when it probably has little to do with pitching mechanics and is almost certainly mental. I echo the other poster's sentiment that a bullpen role is lower pressure and maybe Kopech can develop some confidence and work his way back into the starting rotation. I don't think the team's given up on him. 

5 hours ago, 2Deep said:

Make him the closer and see how it goes.  This season will blow anyway

Leasure Kopech Wilson...maybe Berroa or Iriarte if they don't make it as starters.

Feels too early for Nastrini.

 

Probably get more Shaw instead.

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

https://allchgo.com/fixing-michael-kopech-white-sox-turn-to-new-front-office-hire-brian-bannister-for-one-of-offseasons-top-priorities/

https://soxmachine.com/2024/02/brian-bannister-white-sox-michael-kopech/

Tony La Russa hired Josh Barfield for his first post player job in Arizona. Tony also worked with Brian Bannister in Boston.

Until he is gone from the org chart and has no further professional contact with White Sox staff and management, my gut says Tony continues to have major influence with what is going on at 35th and Shields.

He was effectively an opener anyway.

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/why-white-sox-are-sending-michael-kopech-to-the-bullpen/546978/?cid=sm_npd_rsn_chi_fb_mn&fbclid=IwAR0gR4TMjrfOx9ryy2TF5TlF2ZgxdEQ_uvep_HUMlNE0VPa21lpeJqkHIGQ

 

3 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

How often are they going to have a lead in the late innings though? Gonna be pretty rare. 

I don't disagree, but if he can put up good numbers out of the pen perhaps he'l be flippable for something. Has to be better than a non-tender in the offseason.

1 minute ago, Tnetennba said:

I don't disagree, but if he can put up good numbers out of the pen perhaps he'l be flippable for something. Has to be better than a non-tender in the offseason.

If he ends up sucking in bullpen, you almost think that’s the next step. Hopefully he turns it around as a reliever we can flip him.

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

If he ends up sucking in bullpen, you almost think that’s the next step. Hopefully he turns it around as a reliever we can flip him.

He'll be 28 in April and his cheap team control is running out. If he sucks again all season I don't see why they would keep him at whatever his arb number will be. Cut ties and move on. 

28 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

He'll be 28 in April and his cheap team control is running out. If he sucks again all season I don't see why they would keep him at whatever his arb number will be. Cut ties and move on. 

Plus there's no tie between making Kopech somehow look decent at some point like there was with Hahn after the Sale trade.

Probably just best to move on here, change of scenery flip maybe at some point with another team who thinks they can still get something out of him (like the Matt Thornton deal with Seattle for Borchard.)

https://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/1769107435690525170?s=19

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

https://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/1769107435690525170?s=19

Probably for the best.  He can now use his one attribute.  Velocity.  Rather than throwing low to mid 90’s as a starter.

On 3/14/2024 at 3:52 PM, Balta1701 said:

While the OBP part is nice, this part is the big concern. The bat needs to develop to be elite if he's going to drop to a corner outfield spot. 

Agreed. Corner OF doesn’t demand much defensively so that’s where teams put the mashers who can’t field (unless they DH). Therefore, to be really worthwhile he needs to be *at least* as good offensively as the typical corner outfielder who already hits well.

 

Edited March 17, 20242 yr by SpringfieldFan

I heard Kopech hit 100 mph in his last outing out of the pen. Interesting will be if he can get the slider he had in 2021 back. He might just be built for the bullpen. 

Maybe if he mentally knows he only has to pitch an inning or even just a couple batters he can perform.

I'm not high on him anymore, at all, I think injuries have lowered his true talent to basically slightly better than replacement, but in a throwaway season for the club it will be at least interesting to see if he can harness something as a reliever.

If we can build his value up as a high-leverage reliever, build up value and trade him.