4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Crochet mentioned his pitch count as the reason he was pulled after post game comments his previous ST start.

The Spring Training Games do not have accurate pitch counts, with nearly all balls in play recorded as one pitch, and all strikeouts or walks recorded as 0-3 or 4-0, respectively.

https://www.mlb.com/player/garrett-crochet-676979?stats=gamelogs-s-pitching-mlb&year=2024

I didn't watch or listen, but assume he pitched more than 31 pitches today over 3 2/3 IP with 5 H, 1BB and 2 Ks, and very likely more than in his last more efficient outing (3 IP, 2 H, 0 BB).

Assuming they are managing reasonable pitch counts, and Pedro doesn't deviate to get him a quality start, no hitter, or some other personal milestone, hopefully it will work out.

Like getting through four full innings for the first time in his career...

28 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Crochet mentioned his pitch count as the reason he was pulled after post game comments his previous ST start.

The Spring Training Games do not have accurate pitch counts, with nearly all balls in play recorded as one pitch, and all strikeouts or walks recorded as 0-3 or 4-0, respectively.

https://www.mlb.com/player/garrett-crochet-676979?stats=gamelogs-s-pitching-mlb&year=2024

I didn't watch or listen, but assume he pitched more than 31 pitches today over 3 2/3 IP with 5 H, 1BB and 2 Ks, and very likely more than in his last more efficient outing (3 IP, 2 H, 0 BB).

Assuming they are managing reasonable pitch counts, and Pedro doesn't deviate to get him a quality start, no hitter, or some other personal milestone, hopefully it will work out.

I thought I heard him say in a post-game interview that he threw about 80 pitches. 

 

Luis Gil has apparently made the Yankees' rotation, which could make for a somewhat relevant comparison for Crochet's workload. Gil pitched ~30 IP total in 2022-23 due to missed time from TJ. He did clear 100 IP in 2021, but missed 2020. Yanks say no innings restriction for him this season.

 

43 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Hmmmmm he's a glorified opener.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

If he gives us 4 solid innings in the first start I will be shocked

1 hour ago, BigHurt3515 said:

If he gives us 4 solid innings in the first start I will be shocked

They're going to push him to like 80 pitches unless he's getting shelled. 

On 3/27/2024 at 4:58 PM, Bob Sacamano said:

Hmmmmm he's a glorified opener.

You were probably surprised by the game I take it. 

18 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

You were probably surprised by the game I take it. 

He was awesome, no question about it. Was like Sale was back. I just have questions with his workload, even in college, when its going to come back to haunt him. Having him throw 87 pitches to me his first start, s like letting Cease, if he were still a White Sox, throw  130 on Opening Day. 

On 3/18/2024 at 2:17 PM, Chimpton said:

Not just claim back a year of control but actually build him up properly to be a starter like a responsible management would. If he lasts through May before breaking down I will be surprised.

This was my stance . I was quite the proponent of building him up very slowly in the minors because of his injury history.

However I will not get angry if he gets injured doing it their way like I did when they pitched Rodon into the ground in an important year where they would need him in the playoffs.

Whatever the Sox plan is with Crochet, Crochet seems to be fine with it. He always wanted to be a starting pitcher and he's going for it full steam ahead. Let him be the master of his own destiny. If his arm doesn't last it probably wouldn't have lasted no matter what  approach they took. I was actually happy that they put him on a starters schedule and an every 5th day routine.

I didn't think he'd be capable of pitching 6 innings until July or August if he lasted that long.

It wasn't how I proposed they do it but hey it's not my job or my career. There's no real good reason to be angry just because Crochet is way ahead of schedule on a plan I thought was cautious and prudent. That doesn't mean they are throwing caution to the wind without regard for Crochet's health. If Crochet is cool with it so am I.

Edited March 29, 20242 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

3 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

You were probably surprised by the game I take it. 

Yes lol

Hoping that if everything goes well this year, he signs a team friendlyish extension since the Sox: 

1) Started his service time the year he was drafted

2) Missed a full season due to surgery, as well as additional time missed

3) They let him build up as a starter at the MLB level

At some point the lack of innings will catch up to him. I just hope it doesn’t result in serious injury. 

5 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

At some point the lack of innings will catch up to him. I just hope it doesn’t result in serious injury. 

Everyone has to stop this.  Crochet pitching out of the bullpen could lead to serious injury.  It already did.  It's going to be a long road and there will be bumps along the way but it is abundantly clear making him a starter is the correct path to maximize his immense talent.  

Part of me wonders if the org would flip Crochet at the deadline if he keeps this up.

21 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Part of me wonders if the org would flip Crochet at the deadline if he keeps this up.

That seems like a no brainer as long as you're getting a strong offer. I certainly wouldn't trade him for a Organizational 10 prospect or so.

Crochet had Tommy John surgery on april 2, 2022. The healing time is approximately two months, the rest is arm rehabilitation. So he has been rebuilding his arm since approximately june 2, 2022. That’s nearly two years, he should be stronger than ever if that rehab was done properly

14 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Crochet had Tommy John surgery on april 2, 2022. The healing time is approximately two months, the rest is arm rehabilitation. So he has been rebuilding his arm since approximately june 2, 2022. That’s nearly two years, he should be stronger than ever if that rehab was done properly

There is no version of "arm rehabilitation" that is a substitute for throwing in actual baseball games, and there's no way on Earth he got his arm in any sort of condition in 2023. They pushed him way too hard because Rick Hahn needed him to save his bullpen and that caused shoulder inflammation - in what was absolutely the most predictable series of events I have ever seen in my life.

He has to throw in actual baseball games regularly to build up his arm. This process will not be completed this year, it probably won't even be completed next year. Using him as a starter and seeing him have some success is step 1 in this, however the only reason I can't say "I'm surprised they are using him this aggressively with 87 pitches on opening day" is that I'm so used to having them do super reckless things with Garret Crochet already that not surprising at all. Perhaps baffling is a better word. 

Look, I don't think most people doubted the stuff of Crochet.  People doubt the durability of Crochet, and for good reason.  He hasn't even remotely stayed healthy at any point in his career.  One great start does not change that.

Every time a pitcher has TJS, he is rebuilding his arm from scratch, yet they often come back with full workloads as effective or more so than ever. Previous workloads are practically irrelevant since the arm has to be completely rehabilitated. After two months of immobilzation, every pitchers arm strength has been reduced to virtually zero. So if it can be done by other pitchers, to go from be incapable of throwing a baseball at all, to being strong enough for a full workload following rehab, without any actual game innings involved in that rehab, there is no reason it couldn’t be done with Crochet.

When they shut him down from gameplay with shoulder discomfort, he still continued his rehab. He wasn’t shut down from activities for more than a few days. At any rate, not sure how you can claim there is no way on earth when so many pitchers have come back stronger than ever from TJS

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There is no version of "arm rehabilitation" that is a substitute for throwing in actual baseball games, and there's no way on Earth he got his arm in any sort of condition in 2023. They pushed him way too hard because Rick Hahn needed him to save his bullpen and that caused shoulder inflammation - in what was absolutely the most predictable series of events I have ever seen in my life.

He has to throw in actual baseball games regularly to build up his arm. This process will not be completed this year, it probably won't even be completed next year. Using him as a starter and seeing him have some success is step 1 in this, however the only reason I can't say "I'm surprised they are using him this aggressively with 87 pitches on opening day" is that I'm so used to having them do super reckless things with Garret Crochet already that not surprising at all. Perhaps baffling is a better word. 

So, let me get this straight. The only way to rehab from TJS is to throw in real baseball games. And to not throw a lot of innings. He did that, but it was too aggressive. 

Are you actually saying that it should take 4 years to come back from TJS? 

You know, you could just admit you're wrong, instead of trying to rewrite all of medical history. 

@Balta1701

I think with Crochet they're like, he has 3 years of team control left, f*** it. He's either going to stay healthy or not. If he pitches well I'd imagine they're going to trade him so they're probably thinking that long term effects aren't their problem.

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There is no version of "arm rehabilitation" that is a substitute for throwing in actual baseball games, and there's no way on Earth he got his arm in any sort of condition in 2023. They pushed him way too hard because Rick Hahn needed him to save his bullpen and that caused shoulder inflammation - in what was absolutely the most predictable series of events I have ever seen in my life.

He has to throw in actual baseball games regularly to build up his arm. This process will not be completed this year, it probably won't even be completed next year. Using him as a starter and seeing him have some success is step 1 in this, however the only reason I can't say "I'm surprised they are using him this aggressively with 87 pitches on opening day" is that I'm so used to having them do super reckless things with Garret Crochet already that not surprising at all. Perhaps baffling is a better word. 

So where does what Crochet wants to do fit in with your narrative. He's 25, a full grown man capable of making his own decisions.  We absolutely agreed on the way we wanted him handled. Proceed with caution , minor leagues etc. but who are you to say what they all have decided is the absolute wrong way. Even if he is injured you still couldn't definitely say he wouldn't have got injured doing it any other way.

10 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

@Balta1701

I think with Crochet they're like, he has 3 years of team control left, f*** it. He's either going to stay healthy or not. If he pitches well I'd imagine they're going to trade him so they're probably thinking that long term effects aren't their problem.

I don't think it's that at all.  A better healthy Crochet means a lot to the Sox. I doubt too many teams would be interested in him this year at the deadline if he's already around 60+ innings. He may not be able to help a team much after the deadline and in the playoffs. Teams will be leery of his previous injuries and his ability to pitch the rest of the season unless they want to put him in the bullpen which is not what Crochet wants. He rather stay on a starter schedule. He's already been injured trying the relief pitcher route.

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So where does what Crochet wants to do fit in with your narrative. He's 25, a full grown man capable of making his own decisions.  We absolutely agreed on the way we wanted him handled. Proceed with caution , minor leagues etc. but who are you to say what they all have decided is the absolute wrong way. Even if he is injured you still couldn't definitely say he wouldn't have got injured doing it any other way.

Even more so, Crochet ASKED for EXACTLY this.  He wanted to be a full pledged starter.

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Even more so, Crochet ASKED for EXACTLY this.  He wanted to be a full pledged starter.

Which is what I thought I said. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. If I didn't know that's what Crochet wanted to do I wouldn't have asked "where does what Crochet want fit into your narrative" or "what they all have decided" (meaning Crochet and management).

Edited March 29, 20242 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside