Sox/Bulls/Hawks close on Stadium deal

[77 Hitmen]

14 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

A $100 pirate box. ONTV had the movies and Sportsvision was for the games and they charged a monthly fee if you had it legitimately.

Yes, wasn't the subscription price something like $21/month?  That's in 1982 dollars!  It's equivalent to $68/month today.  I don't remember if that was for both ON-TV and SportsVision and if there was a cheaper price for just SportsVision.

[77 Hitmen]

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

An except from my history of SportsVision which will be included in Dr. Fletcher's next book on the White Sox which comes out next year:

One Man Remembers 

Mike Leiderman came to Chicago in the late 1970’s working at WMAQ-TV doing sports, then went on to host “PM Magazine.” But his heart was still in sports and when the opportunity came to go to SportsVision as the main anchor (Duane Dow, formerly of WLS-TV sports, worked weekends) he jumped at it. 

“I was talking with a station in Cleveland about hosting a morning show along the lines of what Phil Donahue was doing when SportsVision became an option,” he said when I spoke with him. 

“Merle Harmon, who did the Milwaukee Brewers for years, was the first anchor but he left and they wanted a replacement. They were paying real money and offered me a good deal so I signed up with them. I was contracted to work 200 days a year for them so that left me opportunities to do play by play and other things. My family and I loved Chicago and we wanted to stay here. It also gave me an opportunity to keep doing what I loved, which was sports. Even though it was new we just didn’t think about not making it. Everyone who worked there realized it was going to be a slow growth process.” 

But ownership apparently did not and on December 31,1983 the plug was pulled on it. It was a group decision to sell back the rights among the owners of SportsVision which included Einhorn, Reinsdorf, Chicago Sting owner Lee Stern and Bill and Arthur Wirtz of the Blackhawks.

Leiderman was asked when employees began to suspect something wasn’t right and issues were developing. “It was about the time we starting seeing ads in newspapers for decoder boxes!” he said laughingly. “Instead of paying for the converter box and the hook-up fees people were just buying those boxes for like 10 dollars and watching at home. It was problematic for us.”

The fact that people were buying those boxes did provide perhaps the most memorable line in the entire SportsVision experience. It came on December 31, 1983 during the final show. Leiderman was hosting with Eddie Einhorn as his guest. Mike looked into the camera and said, “Those who are watching us in the piracy of their homes…” as Einhorn started to laugh. 

Asked if he had any regrets Leiderman said, “No, I don’t regret it. We were the first station in the country devoted totally to our teams, we weren’t at the mercy of anything else, we were different, unique and you look around today and you realize all the regional sports channels started with us. I enjoyed it, worked with great people and it enabled me to stay in Chicago. I’m thankful for that.” 

Over time both Eddie Einhorn and Jerry Reinsdorf commented on SportsVision, the idea, the execution and the aftermath; Einhorn in particular defended the decision telling Logan, “If you want people to come, you can’t give the product away. That’s the way it’s been done everywhere else except Chicago for years. The best organizations, the ones that draw the most people at the gate, don’t go that way. They have limited TV.” 

Reinsdorf though understood the reality of the situation when in 2004 at a luncheon promoting the start of the new Comcast Sports Network-Chicago regional channel he said, "Unfortunately, Chicago wasn't ready for us. There wasn't cable of any consequence, and we were on subscription pay-TV. I don't remember how many subscribers there were, but I know that more than that number went to Radio Shack and bought the parts for their own boxes." 

How to sum up the experiment known as SportsVision? 

Well you could do a lot worse than to say, ‘A brilliant idea that simply was ahead of its time, limited by historical factors as well as technological shortcomings.’

-------------------------------

And one item about the cost:

"At the time of launching, it cost most fans $50 just to get it installed as it required a special descrambler, not counting the monthly fee which varied from system to system."

 

In his mind, Eddie was never wrong about anything.  He was right about SportsVision being a gold mine and he was right about Tropicana Field in St. Pete being a gold mine for MLB.  What a visionary!

Interesting quote from Jerry.  That's about as close to admitting a mistake as he'll ever get.  And note how his wording puts the blame back on the fans.  It was us fans who weren't ready for their business model!  It's like when someone says "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way" when they make a non-apology.  

[South Side Fireworks Man]

37 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

In his mind, Eddie was never wrong about anything.  He was right about SportsVision being a gold mine and he was right about Tropicana Field in St. Pete being a gold mine for MLB.  What a visionary!

Interesting quote from Jerry.  That's about as close to admitting a mistake as he'll ever get.  And note how his wording puts the blame back on the fans.  It was us fans who weren't ready for their business model!  It's like when someone says "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way" when they make a non-apology.  

If Eddie and Jerry bought a gas station in 1982 they would have removed all the gas pumps and replaced them with EV charging stations, then whined that the customers just weren't ready for their brilliant business model as they went out of business.

[Texsox]

On 4/18/2024 at 6:07 PM, southsider2k5 said:

I love no matter what happens in Chicago, Sportsvision is brought up at a negative, even though in 2024 is the exact business model that all teams use.

Crazy to think it was too far ahead of the curve. 

[Paulie4Pres]

If I am the Blackhawks, I want nothing to do with the Bulls/Sox. It's only going to hurt their business by being tied to them.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Paulie4Pres said:

If I am the Blackhawks, I want nothing to do with the Bulls/Sox. It's only going to hurt their business by being tied to them.

As the team that protected a molester for a decade, I don't think they have much room to think of their image.

[Paulie4Pres]

29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

As the team that protected a molester for a decade, I don't think they have much room to think of their image.

I love how people keep bringing this up, even though the management that was guilty of this is completely gone, and the owner is dead.

This is also rich considering you are still a White Sox fan, despite the Omar Vizquel s%*#. Which was just as deplorable, if not worse... That also happened much more recently.

I am also clearly talking about a financial perspective here, and not "image".

Edited April 22 by Paulie4Pres

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Paulie4Pres said:

I love how people keep bringing this up, even though the management that was guilty of this is completely gone, and the owner is dead.

This is also rich considering you are still a White Sox fan, despite the Omar Vizquel s%*#. Which was just as deplorable, if not worse... That also happened much more recently.

I am also clearly talking about a financial perspective here, and not "image".

From a financial perspective the NHL is a red-headed step child compared to the NBA and MLB.

[Rusty]

42 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

If I am the Blackhawks, I want nothing to do with the Bulls/Sox. It's only going to hurt their business by being tied to them.

They are tied to the Bulls and Jerry because of shared UC ownership.  Stadium is also headquartered out of the UC so I imagine there is a financial situation that is pretty significant for an NHL team if they can get MLB/NBA money.  Don’t forget that Jerry is a real estate guy and that late how he makes his money.  Look no further than the borderline criminal lease agreement he has for GRF.

[Dick Allen]

What I don't get is how are the Sox and Bulls close on a Stadium deal? Is JR trying to rip himself off?

[Rusty]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't get is how are the Sox and Bulls close on a Stadium deal? Is JR trying to rip himself off?

No he’s literally paying himself and will massively cut costs.  Think broadcasters working multiple sports/teams, co branded content, etc.  If you throw in some cheap Bears content, it easily outperforms Marquee and gives him leverage with carriers.  Long story, short, putting the teams on Stadium makes Jerry money and that’s all he cares about.

[PaleAleSox]

59 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

From a financial perspective the NHL is a red-headed step child compared to the NBA and MLB.

The few years that people pretended to like hockey was very annoying. 

[Paulie4Pres]

22 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

The few years that people pretended to like hockey was very annoying. 

From 2008 to 2024, the lowest season of attendance for the Blackhawks was 2022-2023, and they still had 87% attendance, on average (17,167 per game). 

In a rebuild year this season, they averaged 96% capacity.

They averaged over 100% attendance until the COVID season.

The Bulls still draw for some reason, but the White Sox wish they had the attendance numbers the Blackhawks have.

Edited April 22 by Paulie4Pres

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

The few years that people pretended to like hockey was very annoying. 

I absolutely love hockey, especially live.  I am disgusted by the actions that this franchise look, and the genius of the cover up is that most of the participants were gone or disposable by the time it came out.

Even all of that said, the franchise is worth a half a billion dollars less than the piddly White Sox.  Even in the midst of the Sox downward spiral, they still managed to pull in an extra $60 million more than the Hawks did last year.  That is a direct result of media revenue amongst other things.  In any three team partnership, the Hawks are going to be pulling in BY FAR, the least revenue, and it won't even be particularly close.  The Sox were estimated at $60 million in local money in 2022.  Can't find one one for the Hawks, but I  promise you it is no where near that number.

[Rusty]

You thought stadium was gonna be bad.  The Athletic is now reporting the Standard Media Group has reached an agreement with the Sox, Bulls, and Hawks to take over broadcasting in October.  Standard is headquartered in…you guessed it, Nashville TN.  Their portofolio of current channels currently is comprised of monster channels in Paducah, KY; New Bedford, MA; and Lincoln NE!

Edited Sunday at 01:17 AM by Rusty

[Lip Man 1]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-media/2024/05/04/white-sox-bulls-blackhawks-nbc-sports-chicago-standard-media-group-stadium-jerry-reinsdorf-the-athletic

Don't know the details of course but Stadium seemed like such a no doubt move you have to wonder why it fell apart?

My guess is, the regional systems and outlets the Sox were exploring took a hard look at how awful the teams are and basically said they wanted no part of the dumpster fire, especially considering what they may have to pay for the rights. The rate of return would have been a money loser for them especially if they had to be placed in the most expensive tier to try to recoup their losses. Fans wouldn't be buying for some of the worst clubs in their respective leagues. Who knows for sure. 

Sounds like another "brilliant" JR move that blew up in his face. 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:06 AM by Lip Man 1

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, Rusty said:

You thought stadium was gonna be bad.  The Athletic is now reporting the Standard Media Group has reached an agreement with the Sox, Bulls, and Hawks to take over broadcasting in October.  Standard is headquartered in…you guessed it, Nashville TN.  Their portofolio of current channels currently is comprised of monster channels in Paducah, KY; New Bedford, MA; and Lincoln NE!

https://www.standardmedia.com/2022/11/11/dish/

 

 

Standard Media Group is an innovative and diverse media company committed to serving local communities.  Headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee, with operations in New York, Lincoln, Nebraska, Cape Girardeau, Missouri, and Providence, Rhode Island, Standard Media’s leadership team has a long history of building strong, local broadcast and digital media properties.  Our future is bright and filled with exciting new opportunities as we maintain our commitment to inform communities, inspire employees, and innovate in an ever-evolving industry. 

 

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-media/2024/05/04/white-sox-bulls-blackhawks-nbc-sports-chicago-standard-media-group-stadium-jerry-reinsdorf-the-athletic

Apparently Standard is forming its own RSN...

Edited Sunday at 12:16 PM by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

Reached out tonight to some folks in the business and to say they are shocked by this would be an understatement and they don't understand the rational behind it.

One thing that was pointed out to me was that The Athletic's story was pretty shallow with not a lot of details. An individual thinks this whole story/document may be a plant that was delivered to The Athletic for a reason or reasons unknown by someone trying to get things moving forward with local/national distributors. In other words they were getting blowback and not a lot of response so by trying to bring in "another potential partner" (i.e. Standard) the bidding or interest may go up. Like Boras claiming there are multiple teams interested in a client of his (whether there are or not is debatable) 

All speculation. 

Another possibility may be that JR actually wanted to stay with NBC Sports Chicago but he may have been told privately, 'Hey we're eventually closing down our operation here like in other areas of the country that has already been done' and he didn't have a choice.

But then after spending all that money on Stadium to pivot from that? Just bizarre to me. It will be interesting to read the justification for this and also if it comes to pass,what type of distribution he'll get. 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:13 AM by Lip Man 1

[caulfield12]

"DISH Refused Numerous Offers from Standard Media to Extend Current Agreement to Allow More Time for Negotiation

DISH Has Unilaterally Decided to Drop Local News, Live Sports, Weather, and Network Programming for All Four of
Standard Media’s Broadcast Stations, Denying Subscribers Access to This Important Content

DISH Continues to Insist on Significant Rate Reductions, Demanding Rates that are Far Below Market and
Which Do Not Keep Up with the Rising Cost of Broadcast Programming

DISH’s Tactics Seem Aimed Solely at Taking Advantage of a Small Broadcaster"

 

 

This whole thing with Standard makes almost zero sense...it has always been more of a billboard/advertising company...and lacks economy of scale as a credible sports network.

Edited Sunday at 12:19 PM by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

JRs teams are so bad, he doesn’t even want them on his own network.

 

The Sox have to hope Connor Bedard and whoever the Blackhawks get this year keeps them in most people’s homes next season. Why would a DirectTV pay for this crap? Hardly anyone watches.

Edited Sunday at 12:34 PM by Dick Allen

[Falstaff]

Wherever the Sox end up I will be watching. They have to keep Chuck, Ozzie, McGuffey, Beckham and The Big Hurt in the studio and Stoney & Schriffen calling the game.

Edited Sunday at 01:20 PM by Falstaff
typo

[caulfield12]

Just now, Falstaff said:

Wherever the Sox end up I will be watching. They have to keep Chuck, Ozzie, McGuffey, Beckham and The Big Hurt. 

Why Beckham?

He and Getz are emblematic of the rot.

[A-Train to 35th]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:55 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

An except from my history of SportsVision which will be included in Dr. Fletcher's next book on the White Sox which comes out next year:

One Man Remembers 

Mike Leiderman came to Chicago in the late 1970’s working at WMAQ-TV doing sports, then went on to host “PM Magazine.” But his heart was still in sports and when the opportunity came to go to SportsVision as the main anchor (Duane Dow, formerly of WLS-TV sports, worked weekends) he jumped at it. 

“I was talking with a station in Cleveland about hosting a morning show along the lines of what Phil Donahue was doing when SportsVision became an option,” he said when I spoke with him. 

“Merle Harmon, who did the Milwaukee Brewers for years, was the first anchor but he left and they wanted a replacement. They were paying real money and offered me a good deal so I signed up with them. I was contracted to work 200 days a year for them so that left me opportunities to do play by play and other things. My family and I loved Chicago and we wanted to stay here. It also gave me an opportunity to keep doing what I loved, which was sports. Even though it was new we just didn’t think about not making it. Everyone who worked there realized it was going to be a slow growth process.” 

But ownership apparently did not and on December 31,1983 the plug was pulled on it. It was a group decision to sell back the rights among the owners of SportsVision which included Einhorn, Reinsdorf, Chicago Sting owner Lee Stern and Bill and Arthur Wirtz of the Blackhawks.

Leiderman was asked when employees began to suspect something wasn’t right and issues were developing. “It was about the time we starting seeing ads in newspapers for decoder boxes!” he said laughingly. “Instead of paying for the converter box and the hook-up fees people were just buying those boxes for like 10 dollars and watching at home. It was problematic for us.”

The fact that people were buying those boxes did provide perhaps the most memorable line in the entire SportsVision experience. It came on December 31, 1983 during the final show. Leiderman was hosting with Eddie Einhorn as his guest. Mike looked into the camera and said, “Those who are watching us in the piracy of their homes…” as Einhorn started to laugh. 

Asked if he had any regrets Leiderman said, “No, I don’t regret it. We were the first station in the country devoted totally to our teams, we weren’t at the mercy of anything else, we were different, unique and you look around today and you realize all the regional sports channels started with us. I enjoyed it, worked with great people and it enabled me to stay in Chicago. I’m thankful for that.” 

Over time both Eddie Einhorn and Jerry Reinsdorf commented on SportsVision, the idea, the execution and the aftermath; Einhorn in particular defended the decision telling Logan, “If you want people to come, you can’t give the product away. That’s the way it’s been done everywhere else except Chicago for years. The best organizations, the ones that draw the most people at the gate, don’t go that way. They have limited TV.” 

Reinsdorf though understood the reality of the situation when in 2004 at a luncheon promoting the start of the new Comcast Sports Network-Chicago regional channel he said, "Unfortunately, Chicago wasn't ready for us. There wasn't cable of any consequence, and we were on subscription pay-TV. I don't remember how many subscribers there were, but I know that more than that number went to Radio Shack and bought the parts for their own boxes." 

How to sum up the experiment known as SportsVision? 

Well you could do a lot worse than to say, ‘A brilliant idea that simply was ahead of its time, limited by historical factors as well as technological shortcomings.’

-------------------------------

And one item about the cost:

"At the time of launching, it cost most fans $50 just to get it installed as it required a special descrambler, not counting the monthly fee which varied from system to system."

 

Do you know you can adjust the font size on your copy and paste articles so there not so long. The drop down is labeled "size" and is located at the top, 3rd from the left.  This advice coming from the person who posted an X article that included multiple pages of pictures that clogged up SoxTalk.

; )

[soxfan18]

Purely speculative, but putting 2 and 2 together. 

https://twitter.com/soft_toss_lefty/status/1786975786651800003?t=tnt8ZPBaPbGiYJGOlXTwfQ&s=19

The hedge fund that owns Standard Media, operates Bally's. The corp that worked with MLB and the A's to develop the Vegas stadium. 

Watch out for a casino tie-in for a new White Sox stadium (in Chicago or elsewhere). Future team ownership doesn't seem absurd for the hedge fund.

Edited Sunday at 02:18 PM by soxfan18

[Lip Man 1]

Jim Margalus with an interesting take on this since he lives in Nashville:

"By comparison, Standard Media Group has an extremely low profile. It says it’s headquartered in Nashville “with operations in New York, Lincoln, Nebraska, Cape Girardeau, Missouri, and Providence, Rhode Island,” but for a news organization, it’s jarringly scant on information. Its website bears a copyright date of 2021, its latest news article under “LATEST NEWS” is dated Nov. 11, 2022, and its contact page feels obligated to clarify that it has no connection to the Kenyan news organization Standard Group Plc."

https://soxmachine.com/2024/05/no-stadium-deal-white-sox-find-different-partner-for-broadcast-future/