6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Yup. Baltimore hit on so many of their high picks durning their rebuilding years. Meanwhile the White Sox picked Andrew Vaughn and Nick Madrigal in the first round during their "tanking" years.

4 losses in 2018 away from having Bobby Witt instead. Bad luck. Of course someone like Abrams or Greene would have been nice instead of Vaughn but neither are game changers like the consensus top two in 2019 Witt and Adley.

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

19 minutes ago, T R U said:

I also want to add putting it out there that you are only going to trade these guys if you "win" or someone "overpays" is dumb. That's a nice way to drive off interest.

I also don’t understand this strategy that is oftentimes thrown out to the media to broadcast, like to a Bob Nightengale.  Wouldn’t it be better to just say we are open for offers on anyone, and listen to the offer, propose a counteroffer, etc., rather than scare teams off completely with the “blown away” talk?

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

I also don’t understand this strategy that is oftentimes thrown out to the media to broadcast, like to a Bob Nightengale.  Wouldn’t it be better to just say we are open for offers on anyone, and listen to the offer, propose a counteroffer, etc., rather than scare teams off with the “blown away” talk?

Its ridiculous. What you deem as an overpay may not be what someone else does. This is a good way to get some team to not even engage in talks when its possible they would have an offer they think is fair but you would think is a win or overpay.

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

How in the world did Baltimore acquire so many legit prospects? Their farm system is something else. 

It helps when you draft 1,2,5,1 in consecutive years.

It's been 47 years since the Sox had the 1st pick.

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by TaylorStSox

15 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

4 losses in 2018 away from having Bobby Witt instead. Bad luck. Of course someone like Abrams or Greene would have been nice instead of Vaughn but neither are game changers like the consensus top two in 2019 Witt and Adley.

Thats why team “loss all the games” is a real thing to root for… well… I should say: used to be a real thing to root for.

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

It helps when you draft 1,2,5,1 in consecutive years.

All the losses.

16 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I also don’t understand this strategy that is oftentimes thrown out to the media to broadcast, like to a Bob Nightengale.  Wouldn’t it be better to just say we are open for offers on anyone, and listen to the offer, propose a counteroffer, etc., rather than scare teams off completely with the “blown away” talk?

The media is dumb. It's a small club and everybody is usually pretty chummy with each other. When someone makes an offer that another GM considers a reach it's not like they just hang up and never talk again, it's just a starting point.

Not nearly the stakes obviously but anybody that has ever managed a fantasy team and made trades understands that sometimes yea there's no common ground but usually if two guys are motivated to get a deal done it will get done regardless of how the opening offers looked.

22 minutes ago, T R U said:

Its ridiculous. What you deem as an overpay may not be what someone else does. This is a good way to get some team to not even engage in talks when its possible they would have an offer they think is fair but you would think is a win or overpay.

It's a good thing that nobody on the Sox said that, and it's just Jim Bowden and his usual BS. 

10 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

It helps when you draft 1,2,5,1 in consecutive years.

It's been 47 years since the Sox had the 1st pick.

Greg: Tanking is for nerds.

32 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

It helps when you draft 1,2,5,1 in consecutive years.

It's been 47 years since the Sox had the 1st pick.

I call BS.  It also helps when your team can draft studs with later picks as well, unlike the Sox.  Meanwhile, we have Gavin Sheets.  ?

Gunnar Henderson — Draft: 2019, Baltimore Orioles, Round: 2, Overall Pick: 42

Jordan Westburg — Draft: 2020, Baltimore Orioles, Round: CB-A, Overall Pick: 30

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

18 minutes ago, Quin said:

Greg: Tanking is for nerds.

Bring back Abreu and Anderson.  Who wants to wait for young exciting players to develop?  I’d rather watch vets that should be retired play .490 ball!

56 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I also don’t understand this strategy that is oftentimes thrown out to the media to broadcast, like to a Bob Nightengale.  Wouldn’t it be better to just say we are open for offers on anyone, and listen to the offer, propose a counteroffer, etc., rather than scare teams off completely with the “blown away” talk?

I think these reports are more for us/clicks/readers than they are for other GMs. Those GMs are actually, you know, talking to each and will say what it is necessary to actually gauge interest and worth. What a reporter says or doesn't say isn't going to impact the actual work going on behind the scenes, but it will get readers to continue clicking on their articles.

33 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I call BS.  It also helps when your team can draft studs with later picks as well, unlike the Sox.  Meanwhile, we have Gavin Sheets.  ?

Gunnar Henderson — Draft: 2019, Baltimore Orioles, Round: 2, Overall Pick: 42

Jordan Westburg — Draft: 2020, Baltimore Orioles, Round: CB-A, Overall Pick: 30

You're calling BS that there's a correlation between high draft picks and a good farm? Good luck with that. 

The Sox top hitting prospect was the 22nd pick and among the youngest players in his league. Obviously the Sox are really lacking in development, but the Orioles have truly sucked in that regard for 45 years too. In the current Orioles situation, they were better at sucking.

31 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

You're calling BS that there's a correlation between high draft picks and a good farm? Good luck with that. 

The Sox top hitting prospect was the 22nd pick and among the youngest players in his league. Obviously the Sox are really lacking in development, but the Orioles have truly sucked in that regard for 45 years too. In the current Orioles situation, they were better at sucking.

The Orioles have nailed more draft picks than just their high first rounders.  Even 1B Ryan Mountcastle is a productive player in their lineup and he was drafted 36th overall, not 3rd overall like our 1B bust Andrew Vaughn.

So that’s three starters (Henderson, Westburg, and Mountcastle) in the Orioles lineup that weren’t top 5 overall draft picks.  Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure that the only 2nd round draft pick currently on the Sox roster is crappy Gavin Sheets.

Yes, obviously high first round draft picks have helped them but the Orioles have also drafted far better than the Sox over the years with other picks than the four 1st rounders you specifically mentioned.

The Sox have drafted terribly in the top 5, as well as in the low teens.

2016:  Zack Collins (#10)

2017:  Jake Burger (#11)

2018:  Nick Madrigal (#4)

2019:  Andrew Vaughn (#3)

That’s three first rounders that are no longer even with the team and one that is on his way out.  Poor drafting (and development) is the far bigger problem for the Sox than not getting enough top 5 picks.

 

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I call BS.  It also helps when your team can draft studs with later picks as well, unlike the Sox.  Meanwhile, we have Gavin Sheets.  ?

Gunnar Henderson — Draft: 2019, Baltimore Orioles, Round: 2, Overall Pick: 42

Jordan Westburg — Draft: 2020, Baltimore Orioles, Round: CB-A, Overall Pick: 30

Baltimore gets competitive balance picks which makes a world of a difference in “drafting studs later”.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Baltimore gets competitive balance picks which makes a world of a difference in “drafting studs later”.

The Sox couldn’t even get their top position player draft picks right over the years but would’ve nailed competitive balance picks, had they had them?

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

26 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Orioles have nailed more draft picks than just their high first rounders.  Even 1B Ryan Mountcastle is a productive player in their lineup and he was drafted 36th overall, not 3rd overall like our 1B bust Andrew Vaughn.

So that’s three starters (Henderson, Westburg, and Mountcastle) in the Orioles lineup that weren’t top 5 overall draft picks.  Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure that the only 2nd round draft pick currently on the Sox roster is crappy Gavin Sheets.

Yes, obviously high first round draft picks have helped them but the Orioles have also drafted far better than the Sox over the years with other picks than the four 1st rounders you specifically mentioned.

The Sox have drafted terribly in the top 5, as well as in the low teens.

2016:  Zack Collins (#10)

2017:  Jake Burger (#11)

2018:  Nick Madrigal (#4)

2019:  Andrew Vaughn (#3)

That’s three first rounders that are no longer even with the team and one that is on his way out.  Poor drafting (and development) is the far bigger problem for the Sox than not getting enough top 5 picks.

 

You left out Anderson, Rodon, Crochet, Schultz and Montgomery. ?

7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

You left out Anderson, Rodon, Crochet, Schultz and Montgomery. ?

I wasn’t talking about pitching prospects.  The Sox seem to be pretty good at drafting them.  I won’t argue that.

Anderson was drafted awhile ago (2013) and is currently out of baseball, perhaps for good, so I didn’t even consider him.  Also, you had already mentioned Montgomery and he is no longer a surefire stud prospect and expected above average major leaguer with a .700 OPS in AAA this year.

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I wasn’t talking about pitching prospects.  The Sox seem to be pretty good at drafting them.  I won’t argue that.

Anderson was drafted awhile ago (2013) and is currently out of baseball, perhaps for good, so I didn’t even consider him.  Also, you had already mentioned Montgomery and he is no longer a surefire stud prospect and expected above average major leaguer with a .700 OPS in AAA this year.

Montgomery is still universally considered a top 25 prospect as he's held his own as among the youngest players in AAA. 

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by TaylorStSox

19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Sox couldn’t even get their top position player draft picks right over the years but would’ve nailed competitive balance picks, had they had them?

Quote

Anderson was drafted awhile ago (2013) and is currently out of baseball, perhaps for good, so I didn’t even consider him.

Do you mean over the years where they didn't draft positional players well?

46 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Poor drafting (and development) is the far bigger problem for the Sox than not getting enough top 5 picks.

Then it's a good thing that they changed scouting directors 5 years ago, and have been drafting much better since. 

Everyone in this argument is correct.

• Orioles getting high draft picks helps tremendously. Adley was the most slam dunk #1 ever.
• Getting Competitive Balance picks is a fucking cheat code in the MLB draft.
  • It's like @bmags once said, you'll see all these teams get high praise post-draft and be like "how did they get so many steals?" Oh, it's cause they get so much extra bonus money. Imagine if the Sox could shift money around to get an extra Wolkow every year.
• The Sox were bad at drafting pre-Shirley. Crochet's a hit, now hopefully Colson and Schultz hit and depth lands.

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Sox couldn’t even get their top position player draft picks right over the years but would’ve nailed competitive balance picks, had they had them?

Simply more opportunity. When you're good at drafting, extra picks will go a long way. The White Sox on the other hand, wouldn't get it right if they had 5 first round picks.

28 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Simply more opportunity. When you're good at drafting, extra picks will go a long way. The White Sox on the other hand, wouldn't get it right if they had 5 first round picks.

I'm confused. Are you saying that Crochet, Colson Montgomery and Noah Schultz are picks the Sox "got wrong"? 

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

@greg775this is why you trade Crochet. 

I was talking to a second non biased baseball expert today and they agreed with me that a team the White Sox market size should not be trading stars for prospects in any tank maneuver. He said the lure of the unknown dominates sports fans. Here's an example. Royals SPENT a little bit of cash to acquire two starters Lugo and some other guy who turned out good. And one hitter, Witt, is basically carrying the lineup. Robert is our Witt conceivably. He also agreed with me a pitching staff of Crochet, Rodon, Cease, Fedde, Thorpe and Kopech should be fine if we had it. ... By the way somebody like Beni and Eloy, by all means trade 'em.

There is absolutely no reason to go to 2025 spring training with a 40-win team!! A city the size of Chicago with two consecutive tank jobs is SAD IMO.

Edited July 12, 20241 yr by greg775