3 hours ago, Tony said:

 

 

 

 

From 2021-2023, Robert missed 36% of games due to injury. Let’s not pretend the risk of injury was something new to Robert in 2024.

He had a fantastic 2023, a career year to this point. (Also the only season is 5 career seasons he’s had over 400 AB’s) 

As everyone is familiar with, Jerry said the reason they hired Getz is because they “didn’t want to waste a year.” Now, in theory that can be interpreted a few different ways (all of them look bad for the Sox) but best case, it was Jerry saying they wanted someone to come in with a plan right away and start executing on their long term vision. 

Given what we have seen from Getz thus far, this is a complete tear down to the studs. If that’s the case, and has been from the start, then trading Robert after 2023 shouldn’t have been out of the question, at all. There was always going to be an inherent risk in holding on to Robert, and given his history on the DL, as well as value being removed every year because of control. 

When you talk about “value” for Robert in the winter of 2023…you take the best offer you receive, if it meets your internal criteria for what would be needed. That’s up to the Sox to set. You may feel like it’s not “proper” value for what a player should have with 4 years of control, but that’s meaningless if you project he’ll never have as high of a value as he does in 2023. It’s simply about how they project Robert. If they truly believed Robert would put up better numbers in 2024 and 2025 than he did in 2023, along with being able to stay healthy for a full season…that seems like a risky proposition. 

This is a very long way of saying at this point…they gambled and lost on Robert. It could still be changed, but if you don’t feel like a package  that was offered in December of 2023 will never be offered again for Robert, then they made a mistake. 

And we never heard a peep about him being available and/or marketed as a trade candidate. If the contention is that Getz was too scared to trade him, but also knew that this was a complete teardown both at the same time, so he held on to Robert knowing full well he wasn't in the window and at the same time a large historic injury risk, that doesn't make things better.  Being scared to do the right thing isn't a good thing.

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And we never heard a peep about him being available and/or marketed as a trade candidate. If the contention is that Getz was too scared to trade him, but also knew that this was a complete teardown both at the same time, so he held on to Robert knowing full well he wasn't in the window and at the same time a large historic injury risk, that doesn't make things better.  Being scared to do the right thing isn't a good thing.

I want my GM’s working with conviction. I always cite Ryan Pace trading for Trubisky. Terrible scouting, that move alone got him fired and it was deserved…BUT to this day I can appreciate a GM saying “We have identified the player we want to change our franchise and we’re going to get him, I’m staking my reputation on this, we’re taking a big swing.” 

When you’re caught in-between, very little good comes from that. Big swings cause large highs and lows, but as a fan I’m craving the highs, and you’re aren’t getting those highs by being cautious and hoping for the best. 

 

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

MLB.com had 11 players to watch for Rookie of the Year consideration. Montgomery wasn't on the list but this guy was:

Chase Meidroth, INF, White Sox
230 PA, 3 HR, 3 SB, .702 OPS, 1.1 WAR

Meidroth led the Minors with 105 walks and produced a .435 on-base percentage last season at Triple-A Worcester while in the Red Sox system. In December, he was part of a Sox swap, going from Boston to Chicago in the Garrett Crochet blockbuster. Meidroth doesn't have many standout tools, but given his highly advanced bat-to-ball skills, he could be on the White Sox active roster immediately as a reserve infielder. Steamer states that he will play 57 big league games this year and have a .356 on-base percentage thanks to a robust 13.7% walk rate.

I'm hoping he's the starting second baseman on Opening Day.

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's a thought, but the actions of Chris Getz tell a different story.  He acted like a guy who was thinking he could win again sooner than later, the Robert non-trade being of them.

They weren't planning on going 41-121 but they definitely planned on finishing in last place 

5 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

God, I would have killed for that return. Organization would be in a much better position today if they had pulled that off.

Right but it wouldn't have been enough at the time and I'm not even sure they would've gotten what I proposed. 

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's hindsight to plenty of fans who overvalued him.  It never was about his contract.Trading him after a great season with his injury history would've been done by an organization like the Rays .Selling high is paramount in baseball . Look what Crochet got after his lone  good season eason as a starting pitcher.

I think if you pulled up the thread in the 2023 off-season you see a lot thinking calling him a superstar and overvaluing him . I'm on record as saying he wasn't a superstar back then so it's not hindsight to me.

Also the Sox were selling everything in sight.

What was it about Roberts career path and the Sox 2023 season that makes you think 2024 didn't have a good chance of being a train wreck for both the Sox and Robert ?

I seem to remember @WestEddy arguing that Robert, Moncada and Eloy getting hurt was a deciding factor in 2024 being historically bad and Soxtalkers mocking him like expecting them to stay healthy was stupid since they were always injured.

I'm sure plenty of them were the same people telling us that Robert was a superstar and it was impossible to get fair value for him back in the 2023 off-season.

 

I just don't think trading with Robert that first winter with four years of control after the season he had was even a realistic possibility. I'd love to know what the offers were though. 

Ball did appeal, and as Daryl Van Schouwen reported on Friday, the Illinois Appellate Court’s First District reversed the ruling, reviving the lawsuit.

You can read the opinion here, which sided with Ball on two procedural points. One is that the lower court “prematurely resolved factual issues in favor of the White Sox and improperly shifted the White Sox’s initial burden onto Ball.” The other is that Ball is contesting the validity of the termination agreement, alleging that the White Sox misrepresented the reason for firing him. If that turned out to be true, the agreement wouldn’t be valid regardless of whether Ball signed it, and the motion to dismiss can’t be used to authorize a “fact-based ‘mini-trial’ on whether the plaintiff can support his allegations.”

 

Former White Sox athletic trainer's lawsuit revived on two procedural points...Hahn no longer one of the specified defendants.

https://soxmachine.com/2025/02/bobby-jenks-battling-stage-4-stomach-cancer/

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

I'm hoping he's the starting second baseman on Opening Day.

He's the guy I am in on as well.  

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That dead last position is very well deserved. 

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They weren't planning on going 41-121 but they definitely planned on finishing in last place 

They knew this was a rebuild.

They knew they would be in last.

But they were scared to trade Robert.

Yeah, that isn't better.

Defense and leadership is all you need!

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I just got done saying Meidroth was their most MLB ready prospect based on AAA seasons .

Unfortunately Sosa is likely to get 1st shot at 2nd base. And If Vargas or he produces offensively one of them is likely the new 1st baseman to replace Vaughn.

That's probably the outlook, but I don't think it's that unfortunate.   Sosa's been a good hitter in the minors.   He had an excellent  September 2024 in the majors.   I think it really would behoove the Sox to give him a long look this season..  Work him in the OF.  Versatility is the thing these days.

Edited February 17, 20251 yr by GreenSox

54 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They knew this was a rebuild.

They knew they would be in last.

But they were scared to trade Robert.

Yeah, that isn't better.

Also should be noted there was absolutely zero projected lineup protection for him in 2024, and certainly won’t have any in 2025

29 minutes ago, Tony said:

Also should be noted there was absolutely zero projected lineup protection for him in 2024, and certainly won’t have any in 2025

There was zero protection for him in 2023 when he was a good mistake hitter though. 

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There was zero protection for him in 2023 when he was a good mistake hitter though. 

More than last year

43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There was zero protection for him in 2023 when he was a good mistake hitter though. 

If he had zero protection in 23, he had negative protection in 24.

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t ever see enough offensive ceiling from Sosa to be a good 1B.  We need to strive higher than that from a power position.

 The Sox are so bad offensively I think you're just looking for anyone who can put up a .750 OPS . It doesn't mean they are there forever . It's just finding a place for a hitter who might not ever be a good defensive 2nd baseman ,SS or 3rd baseman to play just to get his bat in the lineup cheaper than Vaughn.  At this point you're looking for whoever can hit. You're just putting him at 1st because there's no logjam there.

3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

That's probably the outlook, but I don't think it's that unfortunate.   Sosa's been a good hitter in the minors.   He had an excellent  September 2024 in the majors.   I think it really would behoove the Sox to give him a long look this season..  Work him in the OF.  Versatility is the thing these days.

I meant unfortunate in that it likely relegates Meidroth to the minors when he should most likely start the season with the Sox.

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Dark times in St Louis 

10 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I'm hoping he's the starting second baseman on Opening Day.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/chase-meidroth/sa3020011/stats?position=2B/3B/SS

Those three year projections would indicate he's the second baseman of the future. The only reason he shouldnt be the starting second baseman is if they think he can be the starting shortstop. His hit tool will get him Madrigal comparisons but he should be a little better around the edges as he doesnt have Madrigals dead arm and a complete lack of power. Most importantly, his elite contact levels arent a result of making contact at a pitch outside of the zone every 0-0 or 0-1 count. He can actually take walks and Fangraphs projects him as a guy that'll be around a .360 OBP in the bigs, If the power or speed is better than expected, he'll be a guy.

 

I understand the appeal of Meidroth and his great OBP in the minors. But I still think that a lot the reasons why people are thinking he'll be the Sox starting 2nd baseman is "Second-String quarterback syndrome" (when a team is playing badly, fans always think the unknown player must be better than the present player). 

I still think that outstanding September earns Sosa a huge edge to be the Sox starting 2nd baseman this year.

And yes, "Look at Meidroth's stats," you say. And they are impressive. But look at Sosa's stats from his last two years at Charlotte; they are also very impressive. Both years with an OPS well over .800. 

It's up to debate and fun to talk about. That's why Spring Training is exciting and gets us all talking. 

I have a question. I've thought this for years, but this spring with all the pitchers in camp and all the NRIs and all the position battles, this question seems more relevant than even in past years. 

But with so many players in camp, shouldn't that Sox be trying to play two split-squad games everyday or almost every day?

I always wondered why there weren't more split-squad two-game days. Was it lack of pitching? Well, the Sox have plenty of pitchers they want to look at. 

Is it hard to find other teams to do this with?  Are the games for spring training already scheduled and can't be changed? 

I really don't know much on this subject. Can anyone say why a team does or doesn't play more split-squad games?

18 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand the appeal of Meidroth and his great OBP in the minors. But I still think that a lot the reasons why people are thinking he'll be the Sox starting 2nd baseman is "Second-String quarterback syndrome" (when a team is playing badly, fans always think the unknown player must be better than the present player). 

I still think that outstanding September earns Sosa a huge edge to be the Sox starting 2nd baseman this year.

And yes, "Look at Meidroth's stats," you say. And they are impressive. But look at Sosa's stats from his last two years at Charlotte; they are also very impressive. Both years with an OPS well over .800. 

It's up to debate and fun to talk about. That's why Spring Training is exciting and gets us all talking. 

Both should get considerable playing time this season.  However, given Sosa’s lacking plate discipline, I’m less confident that he will be a good major league hitter.  On the other hand, I think Meidroth has the higher floor due to his eye and bat to ball skills.  I’d likely give Sosa the Opening Day edge since he is out of options and we need to make a long-term roster decision on him sooner than with Chase, but that window won’t be forever.  Chase, Baldwin, Ramos, etc. will all be pushing for opportunities and Sosa needs to show something out of the gate or risk being pushed to a backup infielder spot.  Ideally Meidroth is forcing himself into a major league role by May regardless of how Lenyn performs and we have a good problem on our hands.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/02/16/chicago-white-sox-fans-trust/

 

Interesting