Free Tim Elko (Back in Jail)

[Texsox]

10 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Sure, it’s easier to believe negative things about the org is after the perpetual shitshow of the past few years. But it’s not the same as applying a broad generalization to the whole fanbase that only applies to a specific subset as you did. 

It's also not the same as misinterpreting what I wrote. 

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

There have been all kinds of positive stories fed to Sox reporters. 

Exactly. And those we fact check and quickly prove inaccurate or exaggerations. The negative are generally true. 

[Kyyle23]

40 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It's also not the same as misinterpreting what I wrote. 

What exactly are you saying was misinterpreted

[Chicago White Sox]

I didn’t realize that Vaughn’s bat speed is so bad.  It’s bottom 25% percentile amongst major leaguers.  Like why are we wasting our time on him?  He can’t run, he can’t field, he still chases like crazy, he still doesn’t draw walks, and he has really bad raw power for a 1B (even worse than I realized).

I get the Sox probably wanted to give Fulmer a chance to work with him, but Vaughn pretty much lacks all tools & skills you’d like to see in a 1B.  He was a questionable draft pick to begin with who wasn’t given enough in the minors to develop proper plate discipline and who lacks both the will and intelligence to overcome his physical limitations and development shortcomings.

Cut bait on this loser ASAP and give those at-bats to literally anyone else.

[Texsox]

20 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

What exactly are you saying was misinterpreted

I don't believe anyone has to make up negative news with this team. It's as natural to them as waking up with bad breath. Positive news on the other hand has to be made up and planted with media sources that they have control over and need to be fact checked. It's like panning for gold. The dirt you just keep washing away, but when you spot somthing shiny you slow down and verify. 

So as a Sox fan 90% of the news will be negative and mostly factual. It's the other 10% that require a closer look. 

I will agree it is much easier to get Sox fans to believe a negative lie than a positive one. But that really is on the team for generating so much negativity. 

I would have been a more careful writer if I knew my words would be scrutinized. 

[Kyyle23]

13 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I don't believe anyone has to make up negative news with this team. It's as natural to them as waking up with bad breath. Positive news on the other hand has to be made up and planted with media sources that they have control over and need to be fact checked. It's like panning for gold. The dirt you just keep washing away, but when you spot somthing shiny you slow down and verify. 

So as a Sox fan 90% of the news will be negative and mostly factual. It's the other 10% that require a closer look. 

I will agree it is much easier to get Sox fans to believe a negative lie than a positive one. But that really is on the team for generating so much negativity. 

I would have been a more careful writer if I knew my words would be scrutinized. 

Seems like he was right on point that you made a broad generalization of Sox fans.  I know it’s weird when you say 90 percent of us are suckers that basically don’t check sources if it’s negative, that people would scrutinize that 

[Texsox]

50 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Seems like he was right on point that you made a broad generalization of Sox fans.  I know it’s weird when you say 90 percent of us are suckers that basically don’t check sources if it’s negative, that people would scrutinize that 

I was making a broad generalization about Sox news not Sox fans. 

Look at all that you added. I never called anyone a sucker. I know you don't like me, never had, but resorting to lies like this is really low. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Still Charlotte. Julks and gray have ops above 900. It's a hitters paradise.

How would Charlotte impact exit velocity. His wRC+, which is league adjusted is 183.

[DoUEvenShift]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Still Charlotte. Julks and gray have ops above 900. It's a hitters paradise.

Check the splits

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Check the splits

The Sox are bad enough where they should reward guys for performing. Probably he falls flat on his face in the Major Leagues. So what? He earned a shot. Give it to him. I was a big Andrew Vaughn fan, but he is what he is. How much more do we have to see?

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How would Charlotte impact exit velocity. His wRC+, which is league adjusted is 183.

Not velocity specifically but the overall hitting. There's no doubt that Elko can hit it hard if he makes contact. Just all of the overall numbers will be inflated.

 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Not velocity specifically but the overall hitting. There's no doubt that Elko can hit it hard if he makes contact. Just all of the overall numbers will be inflated.

 

Weirdly it is his road numbers that FAR exceed his home ones.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Weirdly it is his road numbers that FAR exceed his home ones.

So that should be a hugely positive note...rather than being a creation of Charlotte's stadium.

[ptatc]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Weirdly it is his road numbers that FAR exceed his home ones.

Its definitely weird. If he can keep the K rate to just bad, they may give him a chance.

[almagest]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I didn’t realize that Vaughn’s bat speed is so bad.  It’s bottom 25% percentile amongst major leaguers.  Like why are we wasting our time on him?  He can’t run, he can’t field, he still chases like crazy, he still doesn’t draw walks, and he has really bad raw power for a 1B (even worse than I realized).

I get the Sox probably wanted to give Fulmer a chance to work with him, but Vaughn pretty much lacks all tools & skills you’d like to see in a 1B.  He was a questionable draft pick to begin with who wasn’t given enough in the minors to develop proper plate discipline and who lacks both the will and intelligence to overcome his physical limitations and development shortcomings.

Cut bait on this loser ASAP and give those at-bats to literally anyone else.

I think the idea taking him so high was he was almost MLB ready. The bat was supposed to be his carrying tool. This was also when the window was opening, so getting someone to play 1B/DH after Abreu to keep the window going was what they were going for.

Unfortunately it looks like a big scouting miss. I don't know if any of the motivation or stubbornness issues we've seen hinted at were identifiable from his Cal coaches and teammates, but I'd bet they were. Maybe player dev was also an issue with Vaughn, but if what we've heard is true, no amount of player dev was ever going to help him.

The big mistake now is not sending him down to AAA. He needs a wake up call, and Elko is worth bringing up, even if just for a bit while Vaughn shows he can actually listen and make the changes he needs to make.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Its definitely weird. If he can keep the K rate to just bad, they may give him a chance.

You're using such a backwards argument to support management's thinking here. Have you not seen the list of AAAA bums the Sox have given shots too in 2024 and 2025 already who did not even come close to hitting as well as using batting average,  power, total based,OBP, slugging, HR park adjusted wRC+ as Elko has in his brief minor league career. Just because he turned 26 in late December and has a 29% K rate does not make him a career minor leaguer. He's actually only had 2 full seasons in the minors

He played 5 years in college through the height of the COVID years and all the turmoil that brought to a few seasons.

2022 was his draft year so he played 24 games.(ACL  & A ball)

2023 (A, A+, AA) and 2024 ( AA , AAA) were full seasons where he started in A ball and advanced to AAA. He was 23 when he started his pro career so he's currently entering the 2nd quarter of his 26th year on the planet and is 28 games into starting his 3rd season on opening day.

He was given instructions and goals to cut down on his out of zone swings and concentrate on swinging more at good pitches. That's pretty much the same assignment they gave Robert.

While Robert has struggled to make the adjustment, he actually has stated he feels good about the process and the "just relax and  have fun"  message he's also got from Marcus Thames and Co. It's hard to break old habits and establish new ones especially at a time of year when you usually don't hit well. But he's slowing gotten hot and things are looking up.

Elko took his assignment and adjusted very quickly. He's done everything they have asked of him and the results have been pretty damn good unless you focus entirely on his K rate or don't really do the research on why he's already 26.

 

 

Edited May 5 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, almagest said:

I think the idea taking him so high was he was almost MLB ready. The bat was supposed to be his carrying tool. This was also when the window was opening, so getting someone to play 1B/DH after Abreu to keep the window going was what they were going for.

Unfortunately it looks like a big scouting miss. I don't know if any of the motivation or stubbornness issues we've seen hinted at were identifiable from his Cal coaches and teammates, but I'd bet they were. Maybe player dev was also an issue with Vaughn, but if what we've heard is true, no amount of player dev was ever going to help him.

The big mistake now is not sending him down to AAA. He needs a wake up call, and Elko is worth bringing up, even if just for a bit while Vaughn shows he can actually listen and make the changes he needs to make.

While trying to resist the urge to give a lot of credence to Tyler Osik , I can't help but wonder if Vaughn has gone golfing with Getz on more than a few occasions. They could be country club bros.😉

Edited May 5 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

While trying to resist the urge to give a lot of credence to Tyler Osik , I can't help but wonder if Vaughn has gone golfing with Getz on more than a few occasions. They could be country club bros.😉

Could you imagine if that part of this story got out and was true?  Lmao this site would be unhinged 😂

[Jake]

AAA Statcast statistics

 

In case you wondered, Julks is tied for 1st in AAA in wOBA - xwOBA, Elko 6th, Gray 13th

Edited May 5 by Jake

[Quin]

24 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Could you imagine if that part of this story got out and was true?  Lmao this site would be unhinged 😂

I've never wanted anything more.

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Could you imagine if that part of this story got out and was true?  Lmao this site would be unhinged 😂

Well, there seems to be some evidence that working for the Sox could definitely involve who you know, and not how good you are.

[chitownsportsfan]

One data point: highest EV of his career was 115.1 mph and came in his rookie year. I mean just looking at Vaughn he's never put the work in on his body needed. He's the same 5-10 175 he was as a rookie. Vargus put the time in and look how thick he is now, Vaughn not so much.

[ptatc]

56 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You're using such a backwards argument to support management's thinking here. Have you not seen the list of AAAA bums the Sox have given shots too in 2024 and 2025 already who did not even come close to hitting as well as using batting average,  power, total based,OBP, slugging, HR park adjusted wRC+ as Elko has in his brief minor league career. Just because he turned 26 in late December and has a 29% K rate does not make him a career minor leaguer. He's actually only had 2 full seasons in the minors

He played 5 years in college through the height of the COVID years and all the turmoil that brought to a few seasons.

2022 was his draft year so he played 24 games.(ACL  & A ball)

2023 (A, A+, AA) and 2024 ( AA , AAA) were full seasons where he started in A ball and advanced to AAA. He was 23 when he started his pro career so he's currently entering the 2nd quarter of his 26th year on the planet and is 28 games into starting his 3rd season on opening day.

He was given instructions and goals to cut down on his out of zone swings and concentrate on swinging more at good pitches. That's pretty much the same assignment they gave Robert.

While Robert has struggled to make the adjustment, he actually has stated he feels good about the process and the "just relax and  have fun"  message he's also got from Marcus Thames and Co. It's hard to break old habits and establish new ones especially at a time of year when you usually don't hit well. But he's slowing gotten hot and things are looking up.

Elko took his assignment and adjusted very quickly. He's done everything they have asked of him and the results have been pretty damn good unless you focus entirely on his K rate or don't really do the research on why he's already 26.

 

 

I'm not supporting anything.

I'm just saying that reading between the lines of all the comments from Getz down to Thames, they want players with less swing and miss on the team and throughout the organization.

Also saying that take offensive production from Charlotte with a skeptical eye because historically that ballpark inflates stats.

Everyone can  argue for Elko all they want but the organization doesn't seem to like what he has and his glaring weakness is swing and miss.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, almagest said:

I think the idea taking him so high was he was almost MLB ready. The bat was supposed to be his carrying tool. This was also when the window was opening, so getting someone to play 1B/DH after Abreu to keep the window going was what they were going for.

Unfortunately it looks like a big scouting miss. I don't know if any of the motivation or stubbornness issues we've seen hinted at were identifiable from his Cal coaches and teammates, but I'd bet they were. Maybe player dev was also an issue with Vaughn, but if what we've heard is true, no amount of player dev was ever going to help him.

The big mistake now is not sending him down to AAA. He needs a wake up call, and Elko is worth bringing up, even if just for a bit while Vaughn shows he can actually listen and make the changes he needs to make.

I’m certainly saying he was a questionable pick with the benefit of hindsight, but he was a smallish, right handed 1B-only type at the time with minimal physical projection left.  His plate discipline was very good in college and has completely tanked since entering professional ball, which I think skipping most minor league development didn’t help.  Throw questions about his drive and his willingness to change and I just don’t see what the point of throwing him out there everyday.  He’s clearly had some bad batted ball luck, but he’s sitting at -1 wins on the season.  I’d send him to AAA in a heartbeat, but not sure we can at this point without his consent due to service time.  We should have done this earlier when we had the chance and a bit more control, but alas it feels like the chance of turning Andrew into anything of value is slim to none.

[WBWSF]

I'm hoping that Elko gets called up sometime this year.  I would like to think he deserves a chance.