No indicators Sox are building around speed

[caulfield12]

Jake Burger at 28.0 would be the fourth fastest on the Sox after Capra Robert Baldwin.

Yet all we heard was how he was too old and unathletic.

But at least he always hustled.

And Tauchman ranks behind even Andrew Vaughn...which speaks volumes for his value as a mid 30s outfielder.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They're very clearly targeting players who make good swing decisions and don’t chase. They know that they need power. Power costs money though. 

This is an incredibly bizarre, poorly thought out, click-baity thread.  Why do we need to build around speed specifically?  Why would we expect a team very early in a rebuild with few building blocks in place to have all the attributes of its ideal roster in place already?

For people to say there is no strategy is just straight up wrong.  On the positional side, Getz has targeted hitters who get on base and make good swing decisions in almost all his major trades and with several recent draft picks.  There is really no denying this and so far that strategy has provided quick wins with guys like Vargas & Meidroth looking like solid regulars.  But honestly, that is more about providing a much needed floor of average contributors (something that the previous regime consistently undervalued) and from what we’ve read and seen they understand the need for athleticism and power.  B. Montgomery and Teel both fit the billing in the single biggest trade of Gets’s career and so does Bonemer in the draft.  More is going to be needed here, especially in the power department, but this is basically the first year of the org’s rebuild and power & athleticism aren’t easy to come by.

On the pitching side we have Bannister and it’s clear as day they have a full fledged strategy there.  Identify, select, and develop premium arms in the draft to anchor your future staff since we know we can’t afford those guys in free agency (at least under Jerry) and target lesser pure stuff guys on the cheap who offer unique pitch shapes, deliveries, and/or other attributes that generate weak contact.  There is now a legit pitching lab in place to aid in our pitcher’s development and we are actually seeing evidence of biomechanics being used to both enhance offerings and to help establish ideal roles for our guys.  Beyond that, it’s clear that pitching depth is highly important to front office and there was actually a glut of SP talent in AAA before the rash on injuries happened.

And to be clear here, by no means am I saying this strategy is going to solve all our problems as much of this is stuff is common nature for modern orgs.  But it can’t be stressed enough how behind the times we were and how basic improvements to our foundations can rapidly improve the quality of org.  f***, I would happily take an average org from a scouting, player development, & analytics perspective and hope that Ishbia can eventually be a difference maker on the payroll side.  Regardless, there is a real plan in place whether or not our very bad rebuilding roster has speed on it or not.

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Jake Burger at 28.0 would be the fourth fastest on the Sox after Capra Robert Baldwin.

Yet all we heard was how he was too old and unathletic.

But at least he always hustled.

And Tauchman ranks behind even Andrew Vaughn...which speaks volumes for his value as a mid 30s outfielder.

Why does this fucking matter?  Complaining about Tauchman’s speed while he’s giving us a 135 wRC+ for ~$2M is the strangest take I have seen on this board in my 20+ years here.

[Bob Sacamano]

31 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why does this fucking matter?  Complaining about Tauchman’s speed while he’s giving us a 135 wRC+ for ~$2M is the strangest take I have seen on this board in my 20+ years here.

Caulfield

[Snopek]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is an incredibly bizarre, poorly thought out, click-baity thread.  Why do we need to build around speed specifically?  Why would we expect a team very early in a rebuild with few building blocks in place to have all the attributes of its ideal roster in place already?

IMO they should simply build around guys who get on base, make good swing decisions, have speed, have power, play great defense, and have impeccable baseball IQ, coachability and work ethic.

Not really sure what they’re waiting for.

[champagne030]

31 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why does this fucking matter?  Complaining about Tauchman’s speed while he’s giving us a 135 wRC+ for ~$2M is the strangest take I have seen on this board in my 20+ years here.

He's making about $8.5K per PA.  Granted $2M is chump change, but he sucks.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

He's making about $8.5K per PA.  Granted $2M is chump change, but he sucks.

You’re actually arguing a guy who is currently 35% above league average as a hitter sucks?

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Is Luis Robert suddenly now on the next Sox playoff team?

Boy, that's a non-sequitur. 

Do stolen bases somehow carry over from year to year, now? LOL. 

[caulfield12]

Availability availability availability.

He currently has a groin strain issue...which is what tends to happen to mid 30's outfielders.

"The biggest issue has been his availability, as he began the season on the injured list with a strained right hamstring. He played just three games before heading to the injured list for a second time with a right hamstring strain, which caused him to miss about six weeks of action in April and May.

Still, Tauchman managed to be the only White Sox player in the top 10 at their position in Monday's updated All-Star voting ballot. He came in at seventh among American League designated hitters."

 

Of course that's the result of the Sox and Rockies league-wide joke of fans deliberately casting the starting lineups of both teams with votes to an extent.  How could someone with less than at-bats be worthy of legitimate All-Star status?

Let's just call it the anti or reverse Indiana Fever ballot stuffing phenomenon in the WNBA.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Availability availability availability.

He currently has a groin strain issue...which is what tends to happen to mid 30's outfielders.

"The biggest issue has been his availability, as he began the season on the injured list with a strained right hamstring. He played just three games before heading to the injured list for a second time with a right hamstring strain, which caused him to miss about six weeks of action in April and May.

Still, Tauchman managed to be the only White Sox player in the top 10 at their position in Monday's updated All-Star voting ballot. He came in at seventh among American League designated hitters."

 

Of course that's the result of the Sox and Rockies league-wide joke of fans deliberately casting the starting lineups of both teams with votes to an extent.  How could someone with less than at-bats be worthy of legitimate All-Star status?

Let's just call it the anti or reverse Indiana Fever ballot stuffing phenomenon in the WNBA.

What does this have to do with his lack of speed?   You are moving the goalposts here and in a fashion that hasn’t nothing to do with the point of your thread.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Boy, that's a non-sequitur. 

Do stolen bases somehow carry over from year to year, now? LOL. 

Are you really arguing that you want Luis Robert's $20 million contract option picked up for next season?

They don't carry over from year to year.

What next, Fletcher next season will equal Robert and Taylor's stolen base totals?

Where is the speed going to come from exactly?

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Are you really arguing that you want Luis Robert's $20 million contract option picked up for next season?

They don't carry over from year to year.

What next, Fletcher next season will equal Robert and Taylor's stolen base totals?

Where is the speed going to come from exactly?

Wtf are you talking about

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Where is the speed going to come from exactly?

Again, why does this matter?  What is the quota for speed on a team that will almost certainly suck again next year?  No idea where this need for speed idea came from…

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What does this have to do with his lack of speed?   You are moving the goalposts here and in a fashion that hasn’t nothing to do with the point of your thread.

You changed the topic to be about his offensive "greatness," not me.

His lack of ability to play and his defensive metrics (including lack of foot speed) turn him into something much less than what you're describing.

[WestEddy]

24 minutes ago, Snopek said:

IMO they should simply build around guys who get on base, make good swing decisions, have speed, have power, play great defense, and have impeccable baseball IQ, coachability and work ethic.

Not really sure what they’re waiting for.

The Cleveland teams of the 90's were built around OBP and power. They generally had 1-3 guys who could steal bases. Everybody else just hit. 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Wtf are you talking about

Why are we talking about Robert as if he's suddenly going to be on next year's team?

Who is going to replace the speed of Robert and Taylor in the outfield...exactly?

 

[WhiteSox2023]

The reason Tauchman and Slater likely were never going to be great acquisitions is due to their age.  They are prone to frequent and nagging injuries, but this is also why they were cheap (under $2 million each).

However, signing two vets to one-year deals has nothing to do with the future of the team or building around speed.  Getz might sign a guy in a wheelchair if he was cheap enough and could still hit.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You changed the topic to be about his offensive "greatness," not me.

His lack of ability to play and his defensive metrics (including lack of foot speed) turn him into something much less than what you're describing.

Lol…you brought up his speed buddy and I simply called your post out for being incredibly dumb.  Mike Tauchman’s speed has zero merit on anything long-term.  He is simply a cheap vet placeholder who comes with warts (including health) but has 100% outproduced his measly $2M salary.  Trying to draw any conclusions about our long-term strategy because of a cheap vet is absolutely ridiculous.

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The Cleveland teams of the 90's were built around OBP and power. They generally had 1-3 guys who could steal bases. Everybody else just hit. 

Kenny Lofton had eight years of averaging around a 6 fWAR.

Belle Ramirez and Thome were absolute monsters.

Robert Alomar made the HoF.  Alomar Jr. was a perennial All-Star.

Even Carlos Baerga would be a superstar compared to anyone on this year's Sox roster.

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Are you really arguing that you want Luis Robert's $20 million contract option picked up for next season?

They don't carry over from year to year.

What next, Fletcher next season will equal Robert and Taylor's stolen base totals?

Where is the speed going to come from exactly?

You get my All-Star vote for silliest strawman. 

[DirtySox]

It's a Caulfield thread. It lacks forethought and any semblance of cohesion. Just try to avoid it. I visualize these posts as if they are wrapped in big spools of yellow "Caution" tape.

Edited June 24 by DirtySox

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…you brought up his speed buddy and I simply called your post out for being incredibly dumb.  Mike Tauchman’s speed has zero merit on anything long-term.  He is simply a cheap vet placeholder who comes with warts (including health) but has 100% outproduced his measly $2M salary.  Trying to draw any conclusions about our long-term strategy because of a cheap vet is absolutely ridiculous.

"Chris Getz's commitment to improving the White Sox defense did not need a market forces explanation to be understood. Defensive specialists are less expensive to acquire than their offensive counterparts, and the Sox signaled they were dialing back their payroll from the outset of the offseason. Their positional group of the last few years was littered with unfulfilled Faustian bargains to enable an offense that was supposed to bash their way out of trouble. This tension even manifested itself at the individual level, like Tim Anderson trying to make up for being error-prone with his range/athleticism, or Yasmani Grandal's pitch-framing countering his blocking and other clunky elements of his operation. If the White Sox cannot be significantly better in the standings in 2024, focusing on glove work could at least make them less of a tough hang.

It made sense, even if it's not team slogan material.

But within minutes of trying to dial back the focus on his GM Meetings comment of "I don't like our team," the new White Sox chief baseball decision-maker provided a memorable snapshot for explaining his defensive-minded ethos.

"In the offseason, when I began conversations with potential free agents and agents of pitchers, there was hesitancy to come to the White Sox because of the defense, so that led me to really be proactive in improving that," Getz said. "I wanted to be an attractive place for pitchers to want to pitch here."

It rang a loud bell if only because this is certainly a complaint I had heard before on the beat, when pitchers who thought they'd be on a contending team in 2022 were finishing the year with a 34-year-old AJ Pollock pressed into center field duty behind them. Beyond that, defensive issues would quickly create an identity crisis for the Sox going forward."

 

And where are we now exactly...1 1/2 seasons later???

 

https://soxmachine.com/2024/02/chris-getz-white-sox-defense

Edited June 24 by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

“The White Sox still stink.  Getz is blowing smoke up @caulfield12’s arse.  News at 6…”

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Kenny Lofton had eight years of averaging around a 6 fWAR.

Belle Ramirez and Thome were absolute monsters.

Robert Alomar made the HoF.  Alomar Jr. was a perennial All-Star.

Even Carlos Baerga would be a superstar compared to anyone on this year's Sox roster.

Thanks for that unrelated tangent. You didn't really counter anything I said. The Sox are building on the premise of guys who make good swing decisions and get on base. Cleveland's great 90's teams didn't build around speed. They built around guys who made good swing decisions and got on base. The White Sox have a clear plan in building a team going forward, which was the point of this thread, right?

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

"Chris Getz's commitment to improving the White Sox defense did not need a market forces explanation to be understood. Defensive specialists are less expensive to acquire than their offensive counterparts, and the Sox signaled they were dialing back their payroll from the outset of the offseason. Their positional group of the last few years was littered with unfulfilled Faustian bargains to enable an offense that was supposed to bash their way out of trouble. This tension even manifested itself at the individual level, like Tim Anderson trying to make up for being error-prone with his range/athleticism, or Yasmani Grandal's pitch-framing countering his blocking and other clunky elements of his operation. If the White Sox cannot be significantly better in the standings in 2024, focusing on glove work could at least make them less of a tough hang.

It made sense, even if it's not team slogan material.

But within minutes of trying to dial back the focus on his GM Meetings comment of "I don't like our team," the new White Sox chief baseball decision-maker provided a memorable snapshot for explaining his defensive-minded ethos.

"In the offseason, when I began conversations with potential free agents and agents of pitchers, there was hesitancy to come to the White Sox because of the defense, so that led me to really be proactive in improving that," Getz said. "I wanted to be an attractive place for pitchers to want to pitch here."

It rang a loud bell if only because this is certainly a complaint I had heard before on the beat, when pitchers who thought they'd be on a contending team in 2022 were finishing the year with a 34-year-old AJ Pollock pressed into center field duty behind them. Beyond that, defensive issues would quickly create an identity crisis for the Sox going forward."

 

And where are we now exactly...1 1/2 seasons later???

What in the f*** are you even arguing at this point?