14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

He spent his entire time in the WBC sitting next to him in the dugout...also joking around with veteran OF Kondoh, Ohtani even helped him with swing mechanics advice.

If anyone was out of that veteran loop, it was probably Okamoto ... and the younger emerging star Sato who'd replaced Kondoh as a starter as the WBC wore on.

Breaking: Murakami's Disgraceful Act! Ohtani Refuses Apology as Ibata Confirms Quarterfinal Removal!

Probably click bait, but I remember it.

1 hour ago, Falstaff said:

Breaking: Murakami's Disgraceful Act! Ohtani Refuses Apology as Ibata Confirms Quarterfinal Removal!

Probably click bait, but I remember it.

Read the anti AI comment below the video. It's not sourced by any legit sports news agency.

They couldn't have been any friendlier when the Dodgers were in town, likewise Ichiro's greetings in Seattle...

Diving a bit deeper into this bullpen from a trade deadline perspective. The Sox currently have three of the top 15 relievers in the American League in terms of both FIP & fWAR. Obviously the problem this year has been what happens when you have to pitch anyone but Taylor, Hudson, & Newcomb.

On that front, we have seen two guys step up as of late. Since Jun 1st, Chris Murphy has pitched 11.2 innings for us and has put up a 0.77 ERA & 1.82 FIP with a 9.26 K/9, 1.54 BB/9, & 0 HRs. He’s been one of the better relievers in the game during this stretch and gives us a third LH reliever we can rely on.

Then you have Jordan Hicks, who looks like a new man since coming back from his injury. It’s a very SSS, but in 4.1 innings he’s put up a 0.00 ERA & 0.11 FIP with a ridiculous 16.62 K/9, 2.08 BB/9, & 0 HRs. While I’m no pitching expert, one thing stood during this stretch: he’s starting to leverage his 4 seamer more (~4% to ~25%) at the expense of his sinker (~60% to ~32%). This along with a small increase in his sweeper usage has allowed him to generate significantly more whiffs & K’s.

If these two guys can continue pitching, not even to this degree obviously, the bullpen is much strengthened. You’d still have the Dominguez situation to deal with, but having five strong relievers ahead of him would allow you to use him exclusively in low & medium leverage situations and hope he can get his control back to what it was between 2022 to 2024 (mid to high 3 BB’s per 9).

That would leave two spots to potentially address. I remain confident Wikelman Gonzalez is going to be part of the 2H bullpen mix. He was dealing before he went down with his lat injury and has the type of stuff to be successful in the majors. With a well known roster crunch coming, already being on the 40 man will give Gonzalez an advantage over other AAA arms like Iriarte & Pallette.

None of this addresses the closer spot if you want to continue to use Taylor in your highest leverage situations regardless if it’s actually the 9th. An outside addition would obviously be ideal here as it would allow everyone else to slot into a spot where they can excel. However, if prices are too steep and we can’t afford both a quality SP and closer, then I think you have to prioritize the SP. In that event, could the Sox pull a 2005 White Sox and go with a rookie as their closer? Both McDougal & Sandlin seem like guys who have the stuff to do well in that role, but would take them away from building up strength as SPs. Not sure which way I’d go there, but certainty something Getz must consider.

Tweet I saw on Hicks’ 4 seamer, which is pretty insane:

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Tweet I saw on Hicks’ 4 seamer, which is pretty insane:

The name and list of pitches on this list doesn't give me a lot of confidence in whatever this metric is.

50 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The name and list of pitches on this list doesn't give me a lot of confidence in whatever this metric is.

lol…the hate is strong in this one. You don’t even know what the metric is intended to do, but challenge its integrity anyways. Here is some background if you are interested.

proPitching+:

Definition: The descriptive grade. proPitching+ takes proStuff+ and layers in plate location, release angles, release-angle changes, count, outs, and times through the order. It asks, for every pitch: will the hitter swing, what happens if he does, and what happens if he does not. Every outcome is weighted by its true run value in the count it occurred in.

Architecture: Eight LightGBM models. Stage 1 (P(swing)) for fastballs and non-fastballs. Stage 2 (whiff / foul / in_play given swing) for fastballs and non-fastballs. Stage 2T (called-strike / ball / HBP given take) for fastballs and non-fastballs. Two HR binary models for the in-play tail. Every run-value weight is keyed by the exact (balls, strikes, outs) bucket, so a whiff in a 3-2 count and a whiff in a 0-0 count carry different value.

Composition: pitching_xRV = P(swing) * swing_xRV + P(take) * take_xRV. The swing and take expected values combine their head probabilities with per-count empirical run values built from the 2022 to 2023 training data.

Inputs: 23 features for fastballs, 27 for non-fastballs. All proStuff+ inputs plus plate location (x and z), vertical and horizontal release angles, release-angle change from the previous pitch, balls, strikes, outs, times through the order, and times the hitter has seen that pitch type. Non-fastballs carry the same primary-fastball differentials as proStuff+ does.

Scaling: 100 = average, +10 = one standard deviation at the pitch level.

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

lol…the hate is strong in this one. You don’t even know what the metric is intended to do, but challenge its integrity anyways. Here is some background if you are interested.

Yes, im skeptical of any pitch rating that has Javier Assad sweeper in the top tier. Correct. Along with bum Funderburk and Sandlin sheesh

Im one of the few here who still is a sucker for Hicks skills.

Edited 15 hours ago15 hr by Look at Ray Ray Run

20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, im skeptical of any pitch rating that has Javier Assad sweeper in the top tier. Correct. Along with bum Funderburk and Sandlin sheesh

Im one of the few here who still is a sucker for Hicks skills.

This is looking at a single pitch with situational & other contextual factors at play. It’s not looking strictly at pure stuff, although it’s a component of the metric.

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Diving a bit deeper into this bullpen from a trade deadline perspective. The Sox currently have three of the top 15 relievers in the American League in terms of both FIP & fWAR. Obviously the problem this year has been what happens when you have to pitch anyone but Taylor, Hudson, & Newcomb.

On that front, we have seen two guys step up as of late. Since Jun 1st, Chris Murphy has pitched 11.2 innings for us and has put up a 0.77 ERA & 1.82 FIP with a 9.26 K/9, 1.54 BB/9, & 0 HRs. He’s been one of the better relievers in the game during this stretch and gives us a third LH reliever we can rely on.

Then you have Jordan Hicks, who looks like a new man since coming back from his injury. It’s a very SSS, but in 4.1 innings he’s put up a 0.00 ERA & 0.11 FIP with a ridiculous 16.62 K/9, 2.08 BB/9, & 0 HRs. While I’m no pitching expert, one thing stood during this stretch: he’s starting to leverage his 4 seamer more (~4% to ~25%) at the expense of his sinker (~60% to ~32%). This along with a small increase in his sweeper usage has allowed him to generate significantly more whiffs & K’s.

If these two guys can continue pitching, not even to this degree obviously, the bullpen is much strengthened. You’d still have the Dominguez situation to deal with, but having five strong relievers ahead of him would allow you to use him exclusively in low & medium leverage situations and hope he can get his control back to what it was between 2022 to 2024 (mid to high 3 BB’s per 9).

That would leave two spots to potentially address. I remain confident Wikelman Gonzalez is going to be part of the 2H bullpen mix. He was dealing before he went down with his lat injury and has the type of stuff to be successful in the majors. With a well known roster crunch coming, already being on the 40 man will give Gonzalez an advantage over other AAA arms like Iriarte & Pallette.

None of this addresses the closer spot if you want to continue to use Taylor in your highest leverage situations regardless if it’s actually the 9th. An outside addition would obviously be ideal here as it would allow everyone else to slot into a spot where they can excel. However, if prices are too steep and we can’t afford both a quality SP and closer, then I think you have to prioritize the SP. In that event, could the Sox pull a 2005 White Sox and go with a rookie as their closer? Both McDougal & Sandlin seem like guys who have the stuff to do well in that role, but would take them away from building up strength as SPs. Not sure which way I’d go there, but certainty something Getz must consider.

Good assessment here. Based on Murphy’s emergence and even Eisert being serviceable at times, I think it’s clear that a right handed leverage reliever is the biggest bullpen need. I don’t trust any other right hander in this unit besides Taylor.

If they want to circle back to Boston, a Sonny Gray + Garrett Whitlock package makes a ton of sense.

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is looking at a single pitch with situational & other contextual factors at play. It’s not looking strictly at pure stuff, although it’s a component of the metric.

That's a collection of some of the worst pitchers in baseball with a couple good arms mixed in there. It's a pointless metric. And, again, I still like Hicks.

1 hour ago, ChiSoxFanMike said:

Good assessment here. Based on Murphy’s emergence and even Eisert being serviceable at times, I think it’s clear that a right handed leverage reliever is the biggest bullpen need. I don’t trust any other right hander in this unit besides Taylor.

If they want to circle back to Boston, a Sonny Gray + Garrett Whitlock package makes a ton of sense.

I said it earlier in the thread and completely agree. If we take any RH RP from Boston give me Whitlock over Chapman all day.

Another interesting idea might be to get Logan Webb and Houser from the Giants. Houser hasn’t been good this year, but that Giants roster and clubhouse is a mess. He’s been moved to their bullpen…would he be willing to come back “home” and work in relief for us—especially if the Giants took on some of his salary?

6 hours ago, CityFan53 said:

Another interesting idea might be to get Logan Webb and Houser from the Giants. Houser hasn’t been good this year, but that Giants roster and clubhouse is a mess. He’s been moved to their bullpen…would he be willing to come back “home” and work in relief for us—especially if the Giants took on some of his salary?

Webb would cost a ton in prospects/players and I thought I read recently where the Giants said they would not be dealing him. He'd be terrific to have however.

7 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's a collection of some of the worst pitchers in baseball with a couple good arms mixed in there. It's a pointless metric. And, again, I still like Hicks.

Are you a proponent of giving Hicks a shot at some high leverage situations, Ray?

What would YOU give up for Mason Miller? Under contract until 2030.

15 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

What would YOU give up for Mason Miller? Under contract until 2030.

That would be some get to be sure. MLB Network was speculating last week that if San Diego decided to trade him the Yankees would probably be the best fit.

7 hours ago, CityFan53 said:

Another interesting idea might be to get Logan Webb and Houser from the Giants. Houser hasn’t been good this year, but that Giants roster and clubhouse is a mess. He’s been moved to their bullpen…would he be willing to come back “home” and work in relief for us—especially if the Giants took on some of his salary?

Webb just gave up 7 runs, 11 hits in 3 innings v. Colorado. That would be a nice Hahn/Shields channeling. Webb also plays his home games in a decided pitchers' park; even though he does have reverse splits. More of a control pitcher.

And when trading with these sick teams like Mets, Giants, RedSox, how do we know that the player we're trading for wasn't the clubhouse problem?
Of course, I'm against all of these trades. (I do like your idea of Whitlock among reliever trades).
We're contending while building a great young core; keep that going. Trading for vets never helps, and more often than not, makes us worse. I turn on MLb network and they say "Hagen Smith and Bonemer for Sonny Gray and Chapman." Madness. Bowden says that Getz told him we would buy if we were contending at the end of July. It's like the Sox have some obligation. Yet they never suggest that the Nats, Cardinals or any team in a similar situation do that nonsense.

With Bonemer, the Sox FINALLY draft and develop a top 20 position prospect. Have we done that this century?

18 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Webb just gave up 7 runs, 11 hits in 3 innings v. Colorado. That would be a nice Hahn/Shields channeling. Webb also plays his home games in a decided pitchers' park; even though he does have reverse splits. More of a control pitcher.

And when trading with these sick teams like Mets, Giants, RedSox, how do we know that the player we're trading for wasn't the clubhouse problem?
Of course, I'm against all of these trades. (I do like your idea of Whitlock among reliever trades).
We're contending while building a great young core; keep that going. Trading for vets never helps, and more often than not, makes us worse. I turn on MLb network and they say "Hagen Smith and Bonemer for Sonny Gray and Chapman." Madness. Bowden says that Getz told him we would buy if we were contending at the end of July. It's like the Sox have some obligation. Yet they never suggest that the Nats, Cardinals or any team in a similar situation do that nonsense.

With Bonemer, the Sox FINALLY draft and develop a top 20 position prospect. Have we done that this century?

Colson before he went totally backwards...seems at least once was Top 15-19.

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Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by caulfield12

I'm not sure what thread this belongs in. I was thinking before the season the outfield was one hot mess. Now it seems with Antonacci in left, Peters in center, and Montgomery in right the Sox are set for now and the foreseeable future.

2 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

I'm not sure what thread this belongs in. I was thinking before the season the outfield was one hot mess. Now it seems with Antonacci in left, Peters in center, and Montgomery in right the Sox are set for now and the foreseeable future.

Peters still has to prove he can repeat.

Antonacci might be your 2B still...or platoon with Meidroth, although most won't like that option.

Bonemer could also be your next LFer.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Peters still has to prove he can repeat.

Antonacci might be your 2B still...or platoon with Meidroth, although most won't like that option.

Bonemer could also be your next LFer.

All true, but at the start of the season all three outfield positions were in flux, no more. Nothing is permanent, and foreseeable, is a vague term, but for now anyway. Who would have penciled those three in on opening day?

12 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

All true, but at the start of the season all three outfield positions were in flux, no more. Nothing is permanent, and foreseeable, is a vague term, but for now anyway. Who would have penciled those three in on opening day?

All rookie OF is fresh baby !

18 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

All true, but at the start of the season all three outfield positions were in flux, no more. Nothing is permanent, and foreseeable, is a vague term, but for now anyway. Who would have penciled those three in on opening day?

Yeah, basically, Benintendi Hays Acuna Pereira and Hill...

24 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

All true, but at the start of the season all three outfield positions were in flux, no more. Nothing is permanent, and foreseeable, is a vague term, but for now anyway. Who would have penciled those three in on opening day?

People were talking about this being an historically bad OF before the season. Nobody needs to prove anything at this point. If they keep Periera through the end of the year and off-season, they still have 4 young, controlled, strong OFs. Let's not forget Brooks Baldwin. And Tanner Murray probably could have started to figure out hitting in the bigs in a few more weeks.