13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is such a weird year. The team has largely overachieved, and has a ton of issues that are going to crop up over the next couple of months. They have a ton of players they have to make room for from the 60 day DL, and every player added from the outside complicates that math. There are about half a dozen guys on the 60 day who might show back up. Add four outside players (2 SP, 1 RP, and a C) and you now have 10 40 man roster slots to account for in the next month or so.

We also have plenty of pitchers who are hitting the upper limits of their innings histories, on a staff that is already short handed. Can they continue to achieve at that level? I don't know. The other side is I don't know who is demonstrably better. Both the AL Central and the AL are weirdly low this year. We all know the story of the last rebuild where all of these guys were primed for a long run atop the division, and then they all flamed out under Tony. Could it happen again? Who knows. If you push in for this year, and the young pitching runs out of gas, as it well could, will you miss the guys you dealt in the future?

I have no idea what I would be doing right now as GM. There are plenty of reasons to go for it, and there are plenty of reasons to do as little as possible to get by.

Well stated, it's a potential dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation.

28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is such a weird year. The team has largely overachieved, and has a ton of issues that are going to crop up over the next couple of months. They have a ton of players they have to make room for from the 60 day DL, and every player added from the outside complicates that math. There are about half a dozen guys on the 60 day who might show back up. Add four outside players (2 SP, 1 RP, and a C) and you now have 10 40 man roster slots to account for in the next month or so.

We also have plenty of pitchers who are hitting the upper limits of their innings histories, on a staff that is already short handed. Can they continue to achieve at that level? I don't know. The other side is I don't know who is demonstrably better. Both the AL Central and the AL are weirdly low this year. We all know the story of the last rebuild where all of these guys were primed for a long run atop the division, and then they all flamed out under Tony. Could it happen again? Who knows. If you push in for this year, and the young pitching runs out of gas, as it well could, will you miss the guys you dealt in the future?

I have no idea what I would be doing right now as GM. There are plenty of reasons to go for it, and there are plenty of reasons to do as little as possible to get by.

What is the 40-man at? 39 now? I only count 4 guys who may come back this season that are currently on the 60-day IL (one being Hays who will probably be dumped). If they acquire a catcher, Romo is the guy to be DFA'd unless there's a negative update on Teel and he needs to go to the 60-day IL. Maybe you move a guy like Bush in a deal for a rental pitcher instead of one of your prospects. Urquidy is a guy who may not be long for the 40-man, depending. If you grab 2 starters, I guess that makes Fedde expendable as well.

There's also 6 lefties currently on the 40-man, not counting if Schultz or eventually Bush were to get innings there this year or if Kay were moved there after adding starters. Tyler Gilbert: easy cut.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Bob Sacamano

Realistically we're two SP short and at least one middle innings guy short. There's no way we should give up top prospects when we're that far away. It is what it is. The SP is smoke and mirrors and guys are tiring. The offense frankly did enough to win last night and that rangers game. The SP not being able to get out of the 3rd or 4th inning caused those loses. You can say Will pushed the wrong button but there isn't an ideal button to press when the starter is gassed and can't find the zone before the 4th.

2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

And this is still a team that isn’t going to spend in free agency, at least until the new owner takes over, which still may not be for a few more years. They can’t afford to trade away their top talent considering they don’t spend much in free agency. What are they at right now? A $90 million dollar payroll?

You can use that same argument to make the case they can’t afford NOT to take the bird in the hand here. The Tigers should have run away with this division, but they fumbled and left a door open. Cleveland and Detroit will be right back there whenever we play again, and the other two aren’t any further behind than the Sox, in terms of their own “expected” returns to prominence.

If you want to wait for a year that the team looks like a WS favorite coming into preseason, you’re going to be waiting a very long time. It’s simply not true that anything less than a WS win is meaningless — and they’re absolutely capable of winning a series or two, even if they enter each as an underdog. A significant postseason run would a be a huge positive to this franchise, and would benefit the current competitive window, even if it costs something to obtain. More revenue in the short term, more fan interest in the short and mid term, important experience for young players, confidence from a core that can’t be acquired any other way than being there. There’s even a chance it means JR is more confident and willing to spend.

You can and should draw a line wherever you think at which guys are untouchable, but the benefits of a successful year are worth investing in.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Eminor3rd

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Even giving up a guy like Carlson for a rental is not something the Sox should simply jump to do to improve this year’s team only. This team currently has no catcher and an extremely questionable rotation, even if all of their starters were healthy. And the starters that are being rumored of the Sox interest aren’t going to improve this team enough to do dick in the postseason. Let’s be honest. If they can obtain some rentals without giving up any top prospects, sure go for it.

Rentals don’t command prospects like Carlson outside of someone truly elite like Skubal. I don’t know why people are worried about this…Carlson is only going if it’s for a controllable pitcher.

They have a surplus of position player prospects. They do not have a surplus of starting pitchers.

Yes, they should be trading at the deadline and the offseason. They also should be active in free agency.

Blah blah blah.

7 minutes ago, hi8is said:

They have a surplus of position player prospects. They do not have a surplus of starting pitchers.

Yes, they should be trading at the deadline and the offseason. They also should be active in free agency.

Blah blah blah.

They should definitely pounce quickly before the lockout.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Bob Sacamano

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Rentals don’t command prospects like Carlson outside of someone truly elite like Skubal. I don’t know why people are worried about this…Carlson is only going if it’s for a controllable pitcher.

I realize it’s not the exact same scenario but the Red Sox just traded their #3 prospect (#56 in top 100 per MLB Pipeline) for Curtis Mead.

Early is just coming out of prospect status (turned 24 in April) and has already had “early” success in the majors, which one would think would make him more valuable.

I’m not sure it’s safe to assume what the prices will be for starting pitchers.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by WhiteSox2023

3 hours ago, T R U said:

To play devils advocate, they are in first place and many people around here think they are one of the best teams in the AL. Why would anyone on this team be insulted if they don't make any meaningful additions?

Im all for adding players that can help, but it would be ridiculous to trade any of our top prospects to chase one season in this teams current state. If the goal was to build a sustained winner while being able to reinforce your roster from your minors, they are headed in the right direction. It would just be so foolish to do anything to compromise that plan for this season.

They have zero reliable pitching in the minor leagues, and beyond Burke i dont see much sustainable success in the future in the big leagues (and burke could get hurt any day). The best pitcher of the bunch is struggling mightily this year (i still believe Schultz will be a star eventually if the sox dont screw him up too bad), so I just don't see this sustainable juggernaut that others see.

I see a team that has some position player talent that they need to turn into good controllable pitching, otherwise theyre going to be relying on good batted ball luck and sequencing luck to maintain a survivable pitching staff for years to come. Which im of course very skeptical of.

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I realize it’s not the exact same scenario but the Red Sox just traded their #3 prospect (#56 in top 100 per MLB Pipeline) for Curtis Mead.

Early is just coming out of prospect status and has already had “early” success in the majors, which one would think would make him more valuable.

I’m not sure it’s safe to assume what the prices will be for starting pitchers.

Valuable Hitting at the Deadline and Starting Pitching at the Deadline are not equal.

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I realize it’s not the exact same scenario but the Red Sox just traded their #3 prospect (#56 in top 100 per MLB Pipeline) for Curtis Mead.

Early is just coming out of prospect status (turned 24 in April) and has already had “early” success in the majors, which one would think would make him more valuable.

I’m not sure it’s safe to assume what the prices will be for starting pitchers.

The red sox traded from a strength (young controllable pitching) for a weakness.

If you believe in the Mead changes, I think it makes more sense than people are making it out to be.

Sox should be doing the same thing but in reverse; trading controllable hitting (a strength) for controllable pitching.

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The red sox traded from a strength (young controllable pitching) for a weakness.

If you believe in the Mead changes, I think it makes more sense than people are making it out to be.

Sox should be doing the same thing but in reverse; trading controllable hitting (a strength) for controllable pitching.

Also I don't think the Red Sox are wallowing in the "Well we weren't good for a majority of the season up until recently...this team probably has no chance in the playoffs lets stand pat". They see an opening and are going for it. I'm willing to bet they make a trade for a short stop before monday.

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They have zero reliable pitching in the minor leagues, and beyond Burke i dont see much sustainable success in the future in the big leagues (and burke could get hurt any day). The best pitcher of the bunch is struggling mightily this year (i still believe Schultz will be a star eventually if the sox dont screw him up too bad), so I just don't see this sustainable juggernaut that others see.

I see a team that has some position player talent that they need to turn into good controllable pitching, otherwise theyre going to be relying on good batted ball luck and sequencing luck to maintain a survivable pitching staff for years to come. Which im of course very skeptical of.

I still am probably more bullish on the long-term pitching prognosis, but this season's actual productivity certainly hasn't helped the cause. I still generally believe the following individuals who are close to the big leagues who will have sustained success at the big league level in the long-run (presuming health):

In no particular order: Schultz, Hagen, MacDougall, Thorpe, Sandlin; Mason Adams I'm less confident in but could as easily see working out; For sakes of simplicity I'm ignoring the waves at the lower levels (and in fairness I'm also not saying there are waves). I also believe Martin and Burke are long-term big league pitchers (not saying either are aces or sustained TOR guys though).

Note: I do think this points out that the Sox have a need, whether now or next year - to go out and acquire a TOR pitcher and I believe they have the system depth to do it - but I also would hope with new ownership and potential changes to CBA, we may actually have the free agent market to tap (new CBA with 5 year max deal for FA pitcher is a big game changer in my mind).

26 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They have zero reliable pitching in the minor leagues, and beyond Burke i dont see much sustainable success in the future in the big leagues (and burke could get hurt any day). The best pitcher of the bunch is struggling mightily this year (i still believe Schultz will be a star eventually if the sox dont screw him up too bad), so I just don't see this sustainable juggernaut that others see.

I see a team that has some position player talent that they need to turn into good controllable pitching, otherwise theyre going to be relying on good batted ball luck and sequencing luck to maintain a survivable pitching staff for years to come. Which im of course very skeptical of.

If they are going to trade for good controllable pitching then my concerns are off the table. I just don't want to see them trade away these players for rentals for this season.

I think the key is getting pitching while sacrificing B level talent. Very few deadline deals involve top guys. Anybody in the 10-20 range is fine with me, I’d just prefer they hold onto Bonemer, Fauske, Carlson, McDougal, Hagen, and maybe Wolkow and Boston Smith.

Perhaps Toronto would bite on a package of Drew Thorpe, Sammy Zavala, and Jairo Iriarte for Dylan Cease.

I don't know what the premium would be for controllable pitching at the deadline vs the offseason. If they can get Detmers and not give up Bonemer or Carlson then sure. Are there any other rumors out there on controllable #1-#3 starters?

Otherwise I think a solid rental or two pulling from the 11-30 range in their top prospects is fine, then see in the offseason what is available pitching wise (assuming there's even a season).

49 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I realize it’s not the exact same scenario but the Red Sox just traded their #3 prospect (#56 in top 100 per MLB Pipeline) for Curtis Mead.

Early is just coming out of prospect status (turned 24 in April) and has already had “early” success in the majors, which one would think would make him more valuable.

I’m not sure it’s safe to assume what the prices will be for starting pitchers.

Not only is not “not exact” but it’s a completely different scenario. You’re highlighting a rare controllable young player for controllable young player swap. This has no indication on the price of rentals. And we have multiple years in a row of actual trade deadline activity to provide with a sense of rentals will cost.

Edited 33 minutes ago33 min by Chicago White Sox

25 minutes ago, T R U said:

If they are going to trade for good controllable pitching then my concerns are off the table. I just don't want to see them trade away these players for rentals for this season.

I agree with this, but I'd take a rental for a rental price. Rentals haven't been going for top prospects for a while, especially not ones in the Sox range, so I think a rental would be OK.

That said, they should be trying to trade for controllable pitching all year, at the deadline, at the end of this year.

43 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I still am probably more bullish on the long-term pitching prognosis, but this season's actual productivity certainly hasn't helped the cause. I still generally believe the following individuals who are close to the big leagues who will have sustained success at the big league level in the long-run (presuming health):

In no particular order: Schultz, Hagen, MacDougall, Thorpe, Sandlin; Mason Adams I'm less confident in but could as easily see working out; For sakes of simplicity I'm ignoring the waves at the lower levels (and in fairness I'm also not saying there are waves). I also believe Martin and Burke are long-term big league pitchers (not saying either are aces or sustained TOR guys though).

Note: I do think this points out that the Sox have a need, whether now or next year - to go out and acquire a TOR pitcher and I believe they have the system depth to do it - but I also would hope with new ownership and potential changes to CBA, we may actually have the free agent market to tap (new CBA with 5 year max deal for FA pitcher is a big game changer in my mind).

If 2 of the 6 guys you listed become actual long-term reliable MLB starters I would be very excited.

Hagen is a reliever, McDougal has had like 60 good innings in his professional life, and they weren't even great; he's as likely to have an Oppor style meltdown as he is to become a + mid rotation starter. I think he's also probably a reliever. Sandlin is a reliever - he can't get lefties out, and doesn't have a pitch to do it. Adams and Thorpe would be miracles at this point, although I think Thorpe is the more likely of the two if I had to pick one. Mason Adams is already going to be 27. The BEST outcome for the guy is Davis Martin, who I'm obviously still skeptical of his sustainability. I'll edit this to say I think I like Adams a little more than McDougal as a starter (McDougal WHIP is just rough, even when he was good). Adams doesn't really have the pen viability to McDougal might have though so Tanner the better piece.

Burke has one plus pitch only, but if you're going to have one at least it's the fastball. I think his arm is talented enough to establish some secondary stuff and be a solid mid rotation guy. I liked Burke two years ago, didn't like him after last year, and still worry about the crazy Velo fluctuations, but I think he's an MLB starter.

Edited 20 minutes ago20 min by Look at Ray Ray Run

I don’t know, we are like a mid pack minor league system. And we would dream for a second about selling low on a top 5 guy. We’re just not a team to be screwing around like that.