Southtown Article, great analysis

[Molto]

Interesting to see they think KW will try to move Lee before Konerko, because Paulie is better in the clubhouse.

I'm suprised to see they think Harris will be back. I don't think that'll occur, and I could see him move in a big deal with Lee or Konerko perhaps.

Looks like Vizquel will be our SS target, although giving him a 2 year contract worries me. Personally if possible I'd give him a 1 year deal with a TEAM option for a 2nd.

signing Vizquel wouldn't be a bad idea ... the main thing is to make sure they have a legit shortstop in the minors to take his placein 2-3 years.

 

I don't mind getting Vizquel though, especially since you are going to have younger guys like Crede and Uribe/Harris around him.

[santo=dorf]

I will s*** my pants if we got both Vizquel and Beltran. Would any of you be willing to trade both Konerko and Lee if we got Omar and Beltran?

[Guest JimH]

Nothing in the article necessarily surprises nor disappoints me. I can see the rationale for what Guillen and KW say.

 

Remember though guys ... the writer is just speculating in some cases what he thinks will happen. We need to make sure we read what Guillen and KW said, and not read too much into what the sportswriter said.

 

Sticking with Crede is not a surprise, and I'm happy it appears they're going in a different direction at SS.

 

I'm still predicting the Sox will do everything they can to bring Jerry Hairston Jr. in. He can play CF, they can move Rowand to RF and he gives them flexibility.

 

Of course, if by some miracle they land Beltran, everything changes. My guess is they'll do their free agent shopping for pitching.

 

I would also expect them to bring in a guy who can be an emergency 3rd catcher who can also play a couple of other positions. They like Burke as backup, but Ozzie likes guys who can play more than one position. My guess is they'll invite a guy who has been non-tendered or they'll put Ryan Hankins on the roster.

 

Very interesting to me was the news out of Montreal the other day ... Einar Diaz was non-tendered. He would look very good in the catching mix, I'm hoping they feel the same way.

 

By the way, I will definitely post the article about the OF next Sunday.

[Butter Parque]

I'm still speechless at the though of trading Caballo instead of Konerko. Konerko hit 41 HR's this year, he's almost thirty, and he could bring us back a top flight starter, and a pretty nice prospect. Carlos, i think has been pretty clutch and has been our most consistent player. he's younger and has much more talent then Konerko. it makes no sense. I do like the idea of giving Willie another shot.

 

I don't understand why ozzie is so down on Willie, he hit .268 last year and led the team in SB's. He's still young and will only get better. Stop hating on Willie.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I think we're just going to be disappointed if us fans think about Beltran. Will JR drop 5 years/90 million or 6 years/100? No. I wouldnt trade btoh C.Lee and Paul just to free up money from Beltran. That means we would lose Maggs,Lee, and Konerko from our 04 alleged everyday lienup with no guarantee Frank starts on April 1. I want to see Konerko traded and Lee kept in my opinion. I think the Sox should spend the money on Vizquel, Radke, a set-up man (Jeff Nelson) and a cheap option to play RF with Everett (Juan Gone would be my 2 million dollar pick)

[SkokieSox]

I'm still speechless at the though of trading Caballo instead of Konerko. Konerko hit 41 HR's this year, he's almost thirty, and he could bring us back a top flight starter, and a pretty nice prospect. Carlos, i think has been pretty clutch and has been our most consistent player. he's younger and has much more talent then Konerko. it makes no sense. I do like the idea of giving Willie another shot.

 

I don't understand why ozzie is so down on Willie, he hit .268 last year and led the team in SB's. He's still young and will only get better. Stop hating on Willie.

Willie may have led our team in SB, but he should have been a lot better than what he showed. He looked reluctant out there, and really, he's on the team because of the speed he has. He needs to pick it up. I like the guy, don't get me wrong. It's just that Ozzie's assessment was right on IMO.

 

The problem with the reasoning of trading between PK and CLee is that we are stacked with our outfield in the future. PK is a team leader, and showed how clutch he can be with our other big bats out of the lineup. CLee did very well and I like him, but it does make more sense to trade Lee if one has to go. Especially when considering that the trade is to hopefully make room for another outfielder.

[jackie hayes]

Crede had a "pretty good year"??? Whatever you think of his potential, that was a BAD year.

 

I hope Fields isn't rushed up.

 

I'm not sure what is meant by "keeping faith in...Harris" -- IMO the Sox showed very little faith in Harris. They refused to bat him against lhp -- only 18% of his abs came against lefties. (In contrast, 30% of Valentin's abs came against lefties! And we all know what Valentin brings against lhp.) In the second half of the season, he hit okay against lefties, but we still don't really know what he can do. He only had 35 abs against lhp after the all-star break.

 

Have the Sox already signed Davis? He's been so disappointing for so long, I have much more confidence in Burke. People have been saying for 4 or 5 years that his bat will "come around". I hope the writer's wrong in saying that he'll be our #1 catcher.

[Guest JimH]

I'm still speechless at the though of trading Caballo instead of Konerko. Konerko hit 41 HR's this year, he's almost thirty, and he could bring us back a top flight starter, and a pretty nice prospect. Carlos, i think has been pretty clutch and has been our most consistent player. he's younger and has much more talent then Konerko. it makes no sense. I do like the idea of giving Willie another shot.

 

I don't understand why ozzie is so down on Willie, he hit .268 last year and led the team in SB's. He's still young and will only get better. Stop hating on Willie.

FYI, Konerko and Lee were both born in 1976.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting this "Carlos is younger" stuff.

 

OK, by 3 months ... Carlos Lee 6/20/76, Paul Konerko 3/5/76.

 

Edit: Also ... REMEMBER, on this "they'll trade Lee before Konerko" it is just Joe Cowley speculating.

 

Joe Cowley is a sportswriter, nothing more and nothing less. Not a good idea to totally jump to conclusions based on what a sportswriter says.

 

Note that Williams is quoted as saying he wants to take a long look at what changes are needed, or if changes are needed. They may just make additions and change faces by letting certain free agents go, and signing others.

[thedoctor]

i don't follow prospects as closely as i should but i have to admit i was stunned to see fields even mentioned as a late-season possibility at third. has he showed that much promise?

[Guest JimH]

i don't follow prospects as closely as i should but i have to admit i was stunned to see fields even mentioned as a late-season possibility at third. has he showed that much promise?

He did pretty well, and finished strong.

 

This was at Winston-Salem though, which is a long way from the major leagues.

 

Cowley is speculating that Fields might be ready in late 2005.

 

Maybe, but his 18 walks and 74 K's in high Class A tell me he's in need of a bit more experience.

 

That said, he's a very good prospect IMO.

[AddisonStSox]

He will be better than our other college QB by default.

[The Bones]

Interesting article, and I like what most of it says. I wanna see who can emerge as everyday players out of Uribe, Crede, and Harris.

 

I also like the idea of trading Carlos before Paulie because OF is an easier position to fill for us.

 

I don't know if there are any other quality FA shortstops, but if possible I would like someone a little younger than Vizquel However, he would be a great influence on the younger guys, so I could live with that.

 

Davis and Burke really stepped up this year considering we started with Olivo and Alomar as our 1-2.

 

Good news all around for me.

[qwerty]

I also like the idea of trading Carlos before Paulie because OF is an easier position to fill for us.

I still don't understand how that is easier for us to fill. What we want to do, go with rowand and escobar/timo/borchard? :puke We have a replacement for konerko and not so much for carlos.

[witesoxfan]

qwerty, I'm trying to figure it out myself.

 

How is OF easier to fill when we have a viable option off the bench for 1B in Gload, and we have NOTHING to put in OF?

 

Trade Konerko before you trade Lee, IMO.

[dasox24]

Interesting to see they think KW will try to move Lee before Konerko, because Paulie is better in the clubhouse.

I've been thinking that all along. Paulie's a better guy in the clubhouse and that's what they're trying to do: find good clubhouse guys. And, as for why they'd trade Carlos before Konerko: If we're really gonna make a run at Carlos Beltran and can sign him, then I think that makes Carlos more expandable. Then again, Paulie does make more money, though not much more, so maybe they'd want to free up more $ and get rid of Paul. All that said, I have no freakin idea now about who they're gonna try to get rid of first.

[ZoomSlowik]

You don't win with good clubhouse guys. Their abilities on the field mean a ton more. That's terrible logic to use for why to keep one player over another. I can buy it if there are other contributing reasons and that puts the guy over the edge or if the other guy is a cancer in the clubhouse, but I see no reason why you'd keep Paulie over Lee, especially considering Konerko only has one year left on his deal while Carlos has two. I highly doubt that Konerko is going to repeat this year's performance, while I can easily see Lee hitting about .300 and 30 for at least the final two years on his deal. Trading those kind of guys without getting a monster deal is a major mistake.

[AddisonStSox]

I've been thinking that all along.  Paulie's a better guy in the clubhouse and that's what they're trying to do: find good clubhouse guys.  And, as for why they'd trade Carlos before Konerko:  If we're really gonna make a run at Carlos Beltran and can sign him, then I think that makes Carlos more expandable.  Then again, Paulie does make more money, though not much more, so maybe they'd want to free up more $ and get rid of Paul.  All that said, I have no freakin idea now about who they're gonna try to get rid of first.

Using that logic...that Sox would have to either sign Beltran before making the trade, or trade-away knowing full well Beltran will be on the SouthSide next year. I just don't see it happening...I would LOVE to be proven wrong by KW going out and getting Beltran, but I think someone will out-bid us.

 

 

The problem is...this all sucks. If JR would just open his freaking wallet, we would have all three (PK, CLee, and Beltran). You don't win by cutting one area to improve another...good teams build on their current success, not just move some pieces around.

 

"I tell ya...I get no respect."

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I don't blame JR for not signing Beltran at $20 million a year. I would like to see him increasse payroll though. Maybe a solid increase used in multiple areas. We saw how Beltran (or anyone else for that matter) did as a one-man-show in KC, let's spread out soem money. That said, we all know that payroll is going to be about the same this year

[Chisoxfn]

This was a great read Jim. Thanks for posting it. I think Cowley is one of the best Sox writers their is an I almost always respect and listen to what he says. From what I know he seems to have good contacts and usually is pretty accurate. Of course I do remember a few odd things coming out of him this year, I just don't remember what they were.

 

This was a good piece though. I've been thinking more and more and from the quotes from KW I'm starting to get an idea of where this team is going to be and I have a feeling were all going to like it. I also am getting a hunch that the Sox aren't going to be signing a Starting pitcher.

 

They are going to sign a big bat, a shortstop, and a reliever or two. However, they will get a starting pitcher, it just won't be via the free agent market and I don't expect it to be a big name guy, but rather a guy that the Sox think can come in and grow as a starter. The kind of guy thats already a 4 or 5 but can develop into a 2 or 3.

 

In following of Cheat and Black Betsy's fashion I'm going to start up a blog on the Sox and try to write stuff during the off-season of different options. I'm not going to do many trade suggestions other then mention players available that could fit.

[beck72]

Here's my take from what KW and Ozzie say:

 

Crede and Harris will be given the opportunity to turn it around. [but both could be pushed by aside by Uribe if they falter--The Sox should know in spring training if they got the message or not, as both probably were told they needed to work on some things: Willie being more mature, and Crede w/ his conditioning/ mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised if Willie was traded in spring, if he didn't learn anything in the offseason]. They have the talent and could be better than almost any FA pick up they could get at those positions [within reason of course, they Sox wouldn't be getting the Beltre type FA's anyway] , if they perform up to their capabilities.

 

PK will be around at 1B. He's Ozzie's top player. [He may DH to start the year if Frank isn't ready]

 

Gload-bench guy

 

Frank- DH, good for team on and off the field

 

Uribe-should be starting somewhere, esp if someone is injured or performing poorly. Could handle the bench if someone outplays him, is a hard worker w/ a good attitude.

 

Ben Davis-- Ozzie not sold on him. KW is, thinks he can turn it around. Ozzie should get the benefit of the doubt. [Get a LH hitting C, ala AJ pierzynski].

 

Burke- a good backup

 

That leaves SS open. Vizquel makes sense and fits for the Sox, a switch hitter and can hit #2. Guys like Renteria, Cabrera will cost an arm and a leg, close to $10 mill. Those guys can't carry and lead the Sox for that money. Look for a trade if it falls into their laps, if a team signs a big FA and needs to trade away their current starter. [For example, if LA signed Nomar and had to trade Izturis]

[greg775]

I love Oz's quotes.

He cuts right to the chase.

He sees these guys every day and I liked what he said about Crede, etc.

He said Crede might have produced about all he's ever gonna produce

in a season. Liked what he said about Valentin, too.

Really all his player comments were great.

Oz has a clue.

 

KW, however.

Williams on Davis: "Came in and gave us everything we thought he would on the defensive front, as well as learning the pitchers. We're very pleased with the way he called games and fit in the clubhouse. The bat's going to come around."

 

Give me a break, the bat is not going to come around.

Ben Davis can't hit.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

KW, however.

Williams on Davis: "Came in and gave us everything we thought he would on the defensive front, as well as learning the pitchers. We're very pleased with the way he called games and fit in the clubhouse. The bat's going to come around."

 

Give me a break, the bat is not going to come around.

Ben Davis can't hit.

Glad to see your psychic now...

[CubKilla]

I think we're just going to be disappointed if us fans think about Beltran. Will JR drop 5 years/90 million or 6 years/100? No.

Exactly. Any self-respecting Sox fan who thinks the White Sox will be big name players for Beltran ought to check themselves into a psychiatric ward. Ain't gonna happen!!!!!

[greg775]

Glad to see your psychic now...

 

Not psychic, I just don't see why the guy would start

hitting when he's never hit afore.

[Rowand44]

qwerty, I'm trying to figure it out myself.

 

How is OF easier to fill when we have a viable option off the bench for 1B in Gload, and we have NOTHING to put in OF?

 

Trade Konerko before you trade Lee, IMO.

Agreed, this is the reason I'd like to see Pauly traded over carlos, we have a replacement for pauly, we don't for carlos.