The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Milkman delivers]

thats what I remembered.  just checking.

 

I was so sure that it would be a top 10 play on BBTN, but it wasn't. Not that I really care, I just couldn't believe it didn't make the reel.

[upnorthsox]

Yeah, Im 99% sure that is what happened. Why would you play all the way back on the grass with the winning run on 3rd?

 

2 outs, position yourself for the out not the runner on 3rd.

[SoxFan1]

2 outs, position yourself for the out not the runner on 3rd.

Watch the replay...

[upnorthsox]

Watch the replay...

 

Just did, never saw him on anything but grass.

Edited June 30, 2005 by upnorthsox

[Kyyle23]

2 outs, position yourself for the out not the runner on 3rd.

 

Even so, you would play normal depth, wouldnt you? Why would you position yourself in the outfield with a player who can run pretty well in the box?

[DBAHO]

Thoughts on Everything:

 

Vizquel - Saw him first hand last night, went 4 for 4 with a walk IIRC. Looked good in the batters box, layed down a real good bunt, and just looked a good #2 hitter in general. That said, I wouldn't want to trade Juan Uribe in a deal for him.

 

Schmidt - Don't want him especially for a BIG package when his .BAA and away splits are BRUTAL.

 

Conor Jackson - The D-Backs are open to trading him. Why? Because long - term he projects to be a DH. He's not a good enough fielder to be an OF (even in a corner spot) and may not be for 1B either, especially when they already have Chad Tracy and Tony Clark. They would trade him for a quality pitching prospect like Brandon McCarthy. Something to consider.

 

Arizona - I gotta think if anything, they should be looking at a guy like Munoz or Bajenaru, who they could control for a few seasons, and could turn into quality relievers at the MLB level.

[Milkman delivers]

Conor Jackson - The D-Backs are open to trading him. Why? Because long - term he projects to be a DH. He's not a good enough fielder to be an OF (even in a corner spot) and may not be for 1B either, especially when they already have Chad Tracy and Tony Clark. They would trade him for a quality pitching prospect like Brandon McCarthy. Something to consider.

 

Why shoot so low? Didn't they just draft that Upton kid? I'm sure we could use Vizcaino to land him.

[daa84]

Why shoot so low?  Didn't they just draft that Upton kid?  I'm sure we could use Vizcaino to land him.

green?

[SoxFan1]

green?

Too obvious... the green wasn't needed.

[VAfan]

I disagree. IMO, the fact that Uribe DID range that far and DID make an awesome strong throw, AND he's not even 100% yet, makes me feel better about him than Vizquel. I think there is no comparison offensively. Uribe is better.

 

Uribe is better offensively?

 

Vizquel since 2000:

2000 Cle 156 613 101 176 27 3 7 66 87 72 22 10 .287 .377 .375 .752

2001 Cle 155 611 84 156 26 8 2 50 61 72 13 9 .255 .323 .334 .657

2002 Cle 151 582 85 160 31 5 14 72 56 64 18 10 .275 .341 .418 .759

2003 Cle 64 250 43 61 13 2 2 19 29 20 8 3 .244 .321 .336 .657

2004 Cle 148 567 82 165 28 3 7 59 57 62 19 6 .291 .353 .388 .741

2005 SF 72 271 38 83 17 3 1 27 26 25 13 7 .306 .366 .402 .768

Total -- 2210 8090 1167 2230 365 57 67 742 811 819 331 136 .276 .341 .360 .701

 

Uribe's career:

2001 Col 72 273 32 82 15 11 8 53 8 55 3 0 .300 .325 .524 .849

2002 Col 155 566 69 136 25 7 6 49 34 120 9 2 .240 .286 .341 .627

2003 Col 87 316 45 80 19 3 10 33 17 60 7 2 .253 .297 .427 .724

2004 CWS 134 502 82 142 31 6 23 74 32 96 9 11 .283 .327 .506 .833

2005 CWS 65 215 24 53 12 1 5 33 12 35 2 3 .247 .279 .381 .660

Total -- 513 1872 252 493 102 28 52 242 103 366 30 18 .263 .304 .431 .735

 

The difference making year for Uribe is 2004 (and his rookie year of 2001) or the gap would be worse. (If he hit that well, I wouldn't want to trade him.) In 3 out of his 5 years he's posted OBP numbers below .300, and if you look at the splits, he's only that decent because he bashes lefties, which Ozuna can do just as well.

 

If the rest of our offense was gangbusters, we might be able to carry Uribe as an out in the postseason. But a bottom of the order with Crede and Uribe and, if we were lucky enough to make the WS, the pitcher, is not a recipe for scoring runs.

[SoxFan1]

Uribe is better offensively?

 

Vizquel since 2000:

2000 Cle 156 613 101 176 27 3 7 66 87 72 22 10 .287 .377 .375 .752

2001 Cle 155 611 84 156 26 8 2 50 61 72 13 9 .255 .323 .334 .657

2002 Cle 151 582 85 160 31 5 14 72 56 64 18 10 .275 .341 .418 .759

2003 Cle 64 250 43 61 13 2 2 19 29 20 8 3 .244 .321 .336 .657

2004 Cle 148 567 82 165 28 3 7 59 57 62 19 6 .291 .353 .388 .741

2005 SF 72 271 38 83 17 3 1 27 26 25 13 7 .306 .366 .402 .768

Total -- 2210 8090 1167 2230 365 57 67 742 811 819 331 136 .276 .341 .360 .701

 

Uribe's career:

2001 Col 72 273 32 82 15 11 8 53 8 55 3 0 .300 .325 .524 .849

2002 Col 155 566 69 136 25 7 6 49 34 120 9 2 .240 .286 .341 .627

2003 Col 87 316 45 80 19 3 10 33 17 60 7 2 .253 .297 .427 .724

2004 CWS 134 502 82 142 31 6 23 74 32 96 9 11 .283 .327 .506 .833

2005 CWS 65 215 24 53 12 1 5 33 12 35 2 3 .247 .279 .381 .660

Total -- 513 1872 252 493 102 28 52 242 103 366 30 18 .263 .304 .431 .735

 

The difference making year for Uribe is 2004 (and his rookie year of 2001) or the gap would be worse.  (If he hit that well, I wouldn't want to trade him.)  In 3 out of his 5 years he's posted OBP numbers below .300, and if you look at the splits, he's only that decent because he bashes lefties, which Ozuna can do just as well. 

 

If the rest of our offense was gangbusters, we might be able to carry Uribe as an out in the postseason.  But a bottom of the order with Crede and Uribe and, if we were lucky enough to make the WS, the pitcher, is not a recipe for scoring runs.

Props for backing it up with he numbers but Uribe had his breakout season last year. I doubt Vizquel was good his entire career. Uribe wasn't even playing a lot in Colorado!

[VAfan]

Props for backing it up with he numbers but Uribe had his breakout season last year. I doubt Vizquel was good his entire career. Uribe wasn't even playing a lot in Colorado!

 

What? I said Uribe would have been a lot worse but for 2004. That was last year, wasn't it? And the Colorado numbers are what they are. Two of his years there under .300 OBP. His strong tendencies are to swing at bad pitches and make outs. His walk numbers are attrocious. In the postseason, those numbers will be worse because he'll be facing good pitching most every night.

 

Plus, you can see Vizquel's career numbers in his total sheet. Lifetime .341 OBP. Even better against right handed hitters, as he's always been better from the left side.

[DBAHO]

The problem still remains with Vizquel is that he's signed to a 3 year deal, and he'll be what 41 or 42 in the final year of that deal in 2007. He's probably not going to put up starter like numbers, like he's doing now.

 

I think of Uribe as a diamond in the rough. There's a lot of work to be done with him, but he's shown he can produce with the bat before, and there's always that Miggy Tejada like potential.

 

Another thing on Vizquel, who's going to replace him? The Sox are going to have to go outside the organization to do that, since there's no-one in the minor league system who projects to be a starting SS.

[qwerty]

Another thing on Vizquel, who's going to replace him?

 

Devi cruz started over 100 games at short for them last year.

[DBAHO]

Devi cruz started over 100 games at short for them last year.

I meant when he's with us, and either he retires or he moves on to another organization.

[VAfan]

I meant when he's with us, and either he retires or he moves on to another organization.

 

So what if Vizquel retires after 3 years. We don't have Uribe signed for any longer than that. As for Vizquel aging, I'm not worried at all, especially if we begin to rest him against lefties. Plus, I watched the Giants game the other night and he doesn't look any older than he did at 30. You don't see the decline with the bat and the legs like you saw with R Alomar.

 

I think the Sox need to improve their hitting for the postseason but they have only limited possibilities to do so. The two potential places for improvement are SS and 3B. I think SS is likely to yield a much greater return than 3B where Crede at least has proven power and has learned to start taking pitches to right field.

 

Vizquel has the added dimension of being a lefty, a tremendous bunter, someone who can steal a base (13 this year out of 20 attempts), and he can work the count and draw a walk. In other words, a perfect player for Ozzie-ball.

[qwerty]

So what if Vizquel retires after 3 years.  We don't have Uribe signed for any longer than that.  As for Vizquel aging, I'm not worried at all, especially if we begin to rest him against lefties.  Plus, I watched the Giants game the other night and he doesn't look any older than he did at 30.  You don't see the decline with the bat and the legs like you saw with R Alomar. 

 

I think the Sox need to improve their hitting for the postseason but they have only limited possibilities to do so.  The two potential places for improvement are SS and 3B.  I think SS is likely to yield a much greater return than 3B where Crede at least has proven power and has learned to start taking pitches to right field. 

 

Vizquel has the added dimension of being a lefty, a tremendous bunter, someone who can steal a base (13 this year out of 20 attempts), and he can work the count and draw a walk.  In other words, a perfect player for Ozzie-ball.

 

The white sox will not trade for him so i don't understand all of this vizquel talk. If we really wanted him we could have had him in the off-season without giving up any prospects at all. The third year was the deal breaker for us, as it should have. If vizquel only had one more year left on the contract i would be all for it... but he doesn't. I would not trade uribe for him in any sort of deal, we would be losing 13 years right there. Even if we did trade for vizquel majikly we would then have a back-up infielder making two million plus.

[DBAHO]

I'll put it this way. It's more likely Uribe is hear playing after his contract finishes than Omar Vizquel. That will count for something with the Sox Brass considering they'll have to sign a major FA to fill the position.

[Southside hitmen]

CBS Sportsline rumor mill says

 

The White Sox are spending a lot of time scouting Giants P Jason Schmidt, says the Chicago Tribune, but the Daily Southtown believes a more likely deal would see Chicago packaging Joe Crede to Oakland in a deal that could return Eric Chavez.

 

How awesome would it be if we got both Schmidt&Chavez

[DBAHO]

CBS Sportsline rumor mill says

 

The White Sox are spending a lot of time scouting Giants P Jason Schmidt, says the Chicago Tribune, but the Daily Southtown believes a more likely deal would see Chicago packaging Joe Crede to Oakland in a deal that could return Eric Chavez.

 

How awesome would it be if we got both Schmidt&Chavez

It's never going to happen. Can't see Oakland dealing Chavez with the way they've played lately.

[qwerty]

CBS Sportsline rumor mill says

 

The White Sox are spending a lot of time scouting Giants P Jason Schmidt, says the Chicago Tribune, but the Daily Southtown believes a more likely deal would see Chicago packaging Joe Crede to Oakland in a deal that could return Eric Chavez.

 

How awesome would it be if we got both Schmidt&Chavez

 

Yes, a trade for chavez would revolve around crede. Give me a break.

[beck72]

Listening to Ed Farmer before the start of the game, he said he believed the astros would put Roy Oswalt on the market. They certainly need help in a lot of spots. Brian Anderson would have to look good for them

[DBAHO]

Preparing to be Flamed;

 

Joe Crede

April - .304/.368/.456

June - .275, 6 HR, 17 RBI in 25 games this month.

 

Just sayin'.

[DBAHO]

Listening to Ed Farmer before the start of the game, he said he believed the astros would put Roy Oswalt on the market. They certainly need help in a lot of spots. Brian Anderson would have to look good for them

He'd definitely look nice in a Sox uni. My bet is that he ends up in Arizona though, revolving around a deal for Conor Jackson.

[qwerty]

Preparing to be Flamed; 

 

Joe Crede

April - .304/.368/.456

June - .275, 6 HR, 17 RBI in 25 games this month.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Thing is we cannot pick and choose when players are good. If that was the case we could take away vizcaino's four worst outings and he would look solid. I never really understand the why people say "" you take away that game he gave up 11 runs he would have a really nice era''. Well guess what? He did give up those 11 runs and his era doesn't look so pretty.