Sox Acquire Javier Vazquez

[RockRaines]

So can Brian Anderson.  They also can move Jose or Jon.

 

Talk about a six man rotation, wow.

No, Chris Young would have been the CF'er and Anderson would have moved to a corner spot. Young was as cant miss as it gets in our system. He projects highly, and is loved by scouts and GMs alike. He is the next Mike Cameron with maybe a little more power. The guy had a chance to lead AAA in HR's next year, and maybe SB's. Do you still not care about him?

 

Secondly, Viz was due for one of his good seasons next year. How many more times are we going to weaken our pen. BMAC isnt going to the pen, we are obviously trading one of our starters.

[kevin57]

It's been pointed out that El Duque helped keep Contreras' head out of his nether regions. Do you think he/we will miss him in that role?

[ZeroHour]

Here's my take.

 

The cash is key to this deal. KW is basically taking what the marketplace is giving him and is dealing prospects to avoid the inflation with the added salary.

 

I believe Vazquez can do some great things, and showed flashes of brilliance up in Montreal. He's not young, but he's not old either, and he still has great years and potnential in him. I feel much more comfortable with him in the rotation the El Duque or Bmac at this point (in the regular season).

 

This give the Sox many options and insurance on the roster, and the chance to stretch out BMac for a year in the pen. Garland now becomes strategic chip. Personally, I think you let Garland walk and take the picks if you cant sign him for value, but that's just me.

 

Vizacaino is a throw-in here, you have to think like this. This is Senor Tee-ball were talking about here. Sox cant keep 40 players, sorry.

 

As for Young, if the Sox have anything, its OF prospects. Again, through his entire careeer KW has seemed to sell high (even Kip and Fogg) so again, I have faith which is all you can have with prospects.

[jphat007]

Bmac = Bullpen

Garland = rotation

 

KW isn't trading either of those. He wants another ring badly. I don't believe KW thinks BMac is ready as a full time starter.

 

The fact that Viz was included in the deal really makes me set in Bmac to the bullpen.

 

I think KW is pretty much done except picking up a couple of bullpen arms to "compete" with our young guys for bullpen spots

 

Burly

Contreras

Garcia

Garland

Vazquez

 

Jenks

Politte

Cotts

Bmac

(Young lefty)

(Veteran righty)

[ZeroHour]

veteran righty=hermy?

[jphat007]

veteran righty=hermy?

 

Yah. I don't know if KW will count on him though. Like he said last night he liikes contingency plans.

[Balta1701]

It is ironic that you went from saying that starting in the pen would hinder Bmacs development, straight to talking about Buehrle as the number one starter.  For those who do not remember, MB got broke into the Sox, out of the bullpen as a long reliever...  It seemed to workout OK for him.

Buehrle only did that for 1 season. This would be the 2nd season of playing around with BMac between the bullpen, starting at AAA, and starting in the big leagues.

 

I still want Bmac in the rotation. I think he could very well be the best pitcher in that rotation even next year.

[nitetrain8601]

Buehrle only did that for 1 season.  This would be the 2nd season of playing around with BMac between the bullpen, starting at AAA, and starting in the big leagues.

 

I still want Bmac in the rotation.  I think he could very well be the best pitcher in that rotation even next year.

 

Pass the rocks over here, because it must be some good ass s***. BMac would not be our best pitcher next year as a starter. I'd bet a kidney on that . Brandon McCarthy could spend a full year in the bullpen with Coop working with him and possibly developing another pitch. I don't care if service time is running. We can't just throw someone out there because the fans want to see him if our management doesn't think he's fully ready.

[jphat007]

Buehrle only did that for 1 season.  This would be the 2nd season of playing around with BMac between the bullpen, starting at AAA, and starting in the big leagues.

 

I still want Bmac in the rotation.  I think he could very well be the best pitcher in that rotation even next year.

 

You may want Bmac in the rotation, but I'm not sure KW does. And he's all that matters. KW knows we got fairly lucky on the injury front last year and I think he loves the idea of having an extra arm in the pen ready to step in if someone has to go on the DL.

[greasywheels121]

You may want Bmac in the rotation, but I'm not sure KW does. And he's all that matters. KW knows we got fairly lucky on the injury front last year and I think he loves the idea of having an extra arm in the pen ready to step in if someone has to go on the DL.

 

Hence we're missing a pitcher in our bullpen, and Hermy is a question mark.

[Balta1701]

I just read back several pages and I think it was pretty obvious that people didn't know how much money AZ was sending along in this deal, so here's my best guess:

 

The deal has yet to be announced by the teams because Arizona is sending cash to the White Sox, which requires the commissioner's approval. Also, the players must take physical exams.

The fact that the Commish's office has to approve means that at least $1 million is exchanging hands. At least that's some sort of bracket.

[AddisonStSox]

You had me...and you lost me.

 

I'm nauseous. Hand to God: I'm actually nauseous.

 

I'm off the wagon, Kenny.

 

You now have to make me a believer. No support on this move.

[heirdog]

It is ironic that you went from saying that starting in the pen would hinder Bmacs development, straight to talking about Buehrle as the number one starter.  For those who do not remember, MB got broke into the Sox, out of the bullpen as a long reliever...  It seemed to workout OK for him.

 

Buehrle is an anomoly. You don't normally take young pitchers that have shown to be ready in the majors in the few starts they have gotten and throw them in the bullpen. Then next year when Contreras/ Garland leave, you try to plug the guy back into the rotation after he is used to pitching a couple innings every so often (maybe 75 total innings) and ask him to go out and pitch 200 innings. You do that for either untested players (Buehrle) or players that have struggled as starters (Cotts).

[Flash Tizzle]

We can't just throw someone out there because the fans want to see him if our management doesn't think he's fully ready.

 

McCarthy already has three pitches. He doesn't need to develop anymore. And here's the idea about McCarthy in the bullpen--it won't be because management doesn't believe he's "fully ready," but rather, because of the possibility of injury many here are alluding to. How the hell could you conclude he's not ready after the manner in which he ended the season?

 

You give your kidney McCarthy isn't the best starter next year, and I'll give my kidney if Garland is even pitching in a White Sox uniform.

[Pierzynski 12]

Damn, 63 pages over 1 trade............

Edited December 14, 2005 by Pierzynski 12

[quickman]

You had me...and you lost me.

 

I'm nauseous.  Hand to God: I'm actually nauseous.

 

I'm off the wagon, Kenny. 

 

You now have to make me a believer.  No support on this move.

 

 

i am clearly dissapointed in you of all people.

[nitetrain8601]

McCarthy already has three pitches. He doesn't need to develop anymore. And here's the idea about McCarthy in the bullpen--it won't be because management doesn't believe he's "fully ready," but rather, because of the possibility of injury many here are alluding to. How the hell could you conclude he's not ready after the manner in which he ended the season?

 

You give your kidney McCarthy isn't the best starter next year, and I'll give my kidney if Garland is even pitching in a White Sox uniform.

 

And he only has 1 that he throws great. His fastball is too straight and there's not enough power behind it. His changeup stinks, but it's a way to keep hitters off-balance. He'll work nicely the first time he faces teams, but the 2nd time around, it'll be alot harder. Now if he were to develop a cutter or a slider, then he would be much better off. Let's not forget the games he was rocked or the games in which he should've gotten rocked(Detroit last year)

[greasywheels121]

You had me...and you lost me.

 

I'm nauseous.  Hand to God: I'm actually nauseous.

 

Overreact much?

[nitetrain8601]

i am clearly dissapointed in you of all people.

 

Me as well quickman. Again, to me it seems like emotional attachment over players is more important than trying to win it all again.

[Balta1701]

McCarthy already has three pitches. He doesn't need to develop anymore. And here's the idea about McCarthy in the bullpen--it won't be because management doesn't believe he's "fully ready," but rather, because of the possibility of injury many here are alluding to. How the hell could you conclude he's not ready after the manner in which he ended the season?

 

You give your kidney McCarthy isn't the best starter next year, and I'll give my kidney if Garland is even pitching in a White Sox uniform.

McCarthy was supposedly working on another pitch this offseason (I believe it was a 2 seamer?) according to reports here a few months ago.

[southsider2k5]

Buehrle is an anomoly.  You don't normally take young pitchers that have shown to be ready in the majors in the few starts they have gotten and throw them in the bullpen.  Then next year when Contreras/ Garland leave, you try to plug the guy back into the rotation after he is used to pitching a couple innings every so often (maybe 75 total innings) and ask him to go out and pitch 200 innings.  You do that for either untested players (Buehrle) or players that have struggled as starters (Cotts).

 

Garland is another bad example... He worked out of the pen too. Its hard to say Neal struggled as a starter with as few starts as he had. Give the kid a real chance before calling him a failed starter. The Sox have talked in the past about starting kids out in the pen to give them good match ups to build their confidence and pitches. This should come as no surprise.

[SSH2005]

You had me...and you lost me.

 

I'm nauseous.  Hand to God: I'm actually nauseous.

 

I'm off the wagon, Kenny. 

 

You now have to make me a believer.  No support on this move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KW basically traded Chris Young for a starter to replace Garland. We will have control of Vazquez for 3 years. Garland wants to test the free agent market after 2006 and we will likely lose him. He is going to get a Burnett-sized contract. We didn't lose much if anything giving up El Duque and Vizcaino.

[Balta1701]

And he only has 1 that he throws great. His fastball is too straight and there's not enough power behind it. His changeup stinks, but it's a way to keep hitters off-balance. He'll work nicely the first time he faces teams, but the 2nd time around, it'll be alot harder. Now if he were to develop a cutter or a slider, then he would be much better off. Let's not forget the games he was rocked or the games in which he should've gotten rocked(Detroit last year)

He was not rocked in those games because he was missing a pitch, he was rocked in those games because he was throwing only fastball/curveball. With just those 2 pitches, BMac is beatable. But that changeup is the pitch that makes everything else work. It's like Santana from the right hand side. It just makes people look like idiots. No one has been able to pick it up at all, and combined with the curve ball it just dominates people.

 

When he wasn't throwing that pitch, he was getting beat. Late in the year he started throwing it more, and suddenly no one could hit him.

 

I like the idea of him getting another pitch, just to throw a few times per game, just to keep people even more honest. And most people still think he'll add a few MPH to his fastball as his frame fills out.

[jasonxctf]

According to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick, the White Sox have acquired pitcher Javier Vazquez from the Diamondbacks for Orlando Hernandez, RP Luis Vizcaino and outfield prospect Chris Young.

Arizona is sending money to the White Sox so the deal needs the approval of the commissioner Bud Selig before being official. Dec. 14 - 11:05 am et

Source: espn.com

 

 

we are getting the cash too!

[ottawa_sox]

McCarthy already has three pitches. He doesn't need to develop anymore. And here's the idea about McCarthy in the bullpen--it won't be because management doesn't believe he's "fully ready," but rather, because of the possibility of injury many here are alluding to. How the hell could you conclude he's not ready after the manner in which he ended the season?

 

You give your kidney McCarthy isn't the best starter next year, and I'll give my kidney if Garland is even pitching in a White Sox uniform.

 

McCarthy, if I remember correctly discarded the slider not too long ago and if you also include the cutter they have been working on, he is up to 5 working pitches.

 

You can include me in the camp of 'Garland - he gone' if another big move happens. Kenny just said Jon and Contreras have to 'start getting serious'.

While we are playing fantasy baseball, how about Crede and his Boras connection, along with Garland for Tejada. Move Uribe and his gun over to third.