How good is Chris Young?

[Rowand44]

I only recall seeing once.  That's why I thought it appropriate to throw into this discussion.

Fair enough. I just see it a lot when you got the so called 5 tool player being discussed.

[SSH2005]

Seems like a pretty good comparison if you look at Chris Young's minor league stats and Eric Davis' major league numbers. They both play great defense, hit homers, don't hit for too high of an average but still get on base, and strike out a lot. But obviously, Young has to show that he can do it in the majors.

[YASNY]

Fair enough.  I just see it a lot when you got the so called 5 tool player being discussed.

 

Okay. Let me rephrase. I only recall seeing it once in regard to Chris Young. That's why I thought it appropriate to throw into this discussion.

[Rowand44]

Okay.  Let me rephrase.  I only recall seeing it once in regard to Chris Young. That's why I thought it appropriate to throw into this discussion.

Ahh, gotcha. My reading comprehension is shot after finals, I can't think anymore.

[Rex Hudler]

If he's this good a prospect, shouldn't we have gotten somebody better for him?

That's all I'm asking.

If he's this great why did we have to include 3 players in the deal?

 

Simple answer is yes.

 

You don't trade your best prospect and only marginably improve your club.

 

Unless the D'backs sign Kenny Lofton, Chris Young will have every opportunity to be their Opening Day CF. Yes, this year.

Edited December 16, 2005 by Rex Hudler

[Jordan4life_2007]

Simple answer is yes. 

 

You don't trade your best prospect and only marginably improve your club. 

 

Unless the D'backs sign Kenny Lofton, Chris Young will have every opportunity to be their Opening Day CF.  Yes, this year.

 

I agree, Rex. That's why we have to wait and see what else Kenny has up his sleeve.

[BHAMBARONS]

Simple answer is yes. 

 

You don't trade your best prospect and only marginably improve your club. 

 

Unless the D'backs sign Kenny Lofton, Chris Young will have every opportunity to be their Opening Day CF.  Yes, this year.

 

 

Agreed totally I really see nothing stoping him from starting in CF this season Luis Terreo is the only opposition now that Cruz Jr is no longer a D Back

[greg775]

Unless the D'backs sign Kenny Lofton, Chris Young will have every opportunity to be their Opening Day CF. Yes, this year.

 

We've come a long way since we had Kenny Lofton.

I disliked that guy in a Sox uniform, big time.

He reeked for us.

[knightni]

How good is Chris Young?

 

So good that Bill Brasky tips his cap to him - WITH HIS HEAD STILL IN IT!

[VAfan]

Very good in terms of prospects.  He's got the ability to be a perennial all star, but at the same time he has the chance to belly up.  I don't see him busting and I see him turning into a 30-40 HR CFer, with potentially 50 HR power who will compete for gold gloves and hit for high avg's.

 

Ie, I think he's going to be great, but the odds of him actually fullfilling all that, not that great.  Thats his ceiling though (ie, he's a high ceiling guy).

 

If you are the guy in the know about Sox prospects, I'd like to hear whether you agree with my assessment.

 

Chris Young and Brandon McCarthy were/are the two best major league prospects in the entire Sox system, and the most likely to be major league stars. Agree? Disagree?

 

If true, I can't believe KW couldn't have gotten the Vazquez deal done with one or two lesser talents, as he HAD to be traded by March or would be a free agent. I guess we have to move on, but I was looking forward to seeing Chris Young in the Sox outfield as early as mid-late 2006. Bummer.

[Chisoxfn]

Unless he cuts down his strikeouts, he will be another Mike Cameron.

 

I know Jason has been a huge fan of Young for a while, with good reason, but to say at worst he'll be Mike Cameron is an overstatement IMO.  Let's not forget that Mike Cameron is a pretty damn good MLB player.

 

I saw a guy from Baseball Prospectus the other day on ESPN News talking about Young and he seemed to believe the same thing I do, Young is a high ceiling guy, but the strikeout numbers are disturbing.

 

Young is an awesome combination of power and speed nontheless and was the major chip for us to acquire Vazquez.  I think his defense would be slightly less than that of Cameron's.

I tend to like him to on the downside (if he doesn't totally bust) to Mike Cameron and on the upside Andruw Jones (not as good defensively, but I think he can do similar things when it comes to power and steals). Jones is flat out the man defensively.

 

Notice I say if he doesn't totally bust out. I say that because I either see Young totally stinking it up or becoming a pretty good player. I don't see him having a "mediocre" career. I'm not worried as much about his strikeouts because he hits the ball hard and he has a good eye. If he were to play in the majors right now, he wouldn't hit for much of an avg, but you'd still see a good number of xtra base hits and he'd contribute in other ways, imo.

[Kalapse]

If you are the guy in the know about Sox prospects, I'd like to hear whether you agree with my assessment.

 

Chris Young and Brandon McCarthy were/are the two best major league prospects in the entire Sox system, and the most likely to be major league stars.  Agree?  Disagree?

 

If true, I can't believe KW couldn't have gotten the Vazquez deal done with one or two lesser talents, as he HAD to be traded by March or would be a free agent.  I guess we have to move on, but I was looking forward to seeing Chris Young in the Sox outfield as early as mid-late 2006.  Bummer.

Vazquez never would have hit free agency. The D-Backs weren't backed completely into a corner, if Vazquez did tear up his contract in March, there's not a chance in hell he'd get money anywhere near what he's making now. He demanded a trade but would have recinded it before March.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

That we included Chris Young in this deal is the main reason that I hate this trade - although I understand why KW made the deal.

 

I think Young is going to be great - better than Cameron. There are no guarantees but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him on future All-Star teams.

 

The other reason that I don't like the trade is that I don't think that Vazquez is that good.

[BlackBetsy]

Vazquez never would have hit free agency. The D-Backs weren't backed completely into a corner, if Vazquez did tear up his contract in March, there's not a chance in hell he'd get money anywhere near what he's making now. He demanded a trade but would have recinded it before March.

 

I don't agree with that. I think that in March, he would have commanded a premium for a team that needed one more starter. Even if he wouldn't have gotten $25 million for 2 years, I'd guarantee that he would get more guaranteed money, like $33 million for 3 years or $40 million for 4 years. So while he'd probably have to give up a bit in terms of average annual value, it's almost a certainty that he would get an increase in total guaranteed dollars, which is very important to players.

[SSH2005]

I don't agree with that.  I think that in March, he would have commanded a premium for a team that needed one more starter.  Even if he wouldn't have gotten $25 million for 2 years, I'd guarantee that he would get more guaranteed money, like $33 million for 3 years or $40 million for 4 years.  So while he'd probably have to give up a bit in terms of average annual value, it's almost a certainty that he would get an increase in total guaranteed dollars, which is very important to players.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. If 41 year old Kenny Rogers and his 84 MPH fastball got a 2-year, $16 million contract, I'm quite sure 29 year old Javier Vazquez with great stuff would have received AT LEAST 3-years, $30 million.

Edited December 16, 2005 by SSH2005

[ZoomSlowik]

Considering that Young was the only player of real value in the deal, I can live with it. In fact, I'd consider the other players we threw in as detractors to the deal. El Duque has very little value. He gets hurt a lot, makes $4.5 mil, and isn't even that good when he plays. Vizcaino was one of our worst guys out of the pen, so losing him doesn't hurt a whole lot. We got a potential front end of the rotation starter and dumped two bad players for the price of a prospect, albiet a good one.

 

He might be a star, but so might a lot of other guys. I'd be interested to see if he can consistently make contact against better pitching while keeping his walks high. For a supposedly elite prospect, the only time he's hit over .280 in the minors was his second year of rookie ball. He may have a ton of power and speed, but it doesn't matter if he can't find the ball with the bat or lay off the tough pitches from better pitchers. He could be another Corey Patterson if he doesn't straighten things out at the higher levels. Of course he could also be Carlos Beltran if he does. That's the problem with prospects, you just don't know how they'll respond against stronger competition, no matter how good they appear to be. I'll say the same thing I said with Jeremy Reed, let's wait about 3 years and then worry about it. Us arguing about what he might do when he hasn't played above AA yet doesn't really mean anything.

[Cerbaho-WG]

I tend to like him to on the downside (if he doesn't totally bust) to Mike Cameron and on the upside Andruw Jones (not as good defensively, but I think he can do similar things when it comes to power and steals).  Jones is flat out the man defensively.

 

Notice I say if he doesn't totally bust out.  I say that because I either see Young totally stinking it up or becoming a pretty good player.  I don't see him having a "mediocre" career.  I'm not worried as much about his strikeouts because he hits the ball hard and he has a good eye.  If he were to play in the majors right now, he wouldn't hit for much of an avg, but you'd still see a good number of xtra base hits and he'd contribute in other ways, imo.

 

Slow down, chief. And remember, you were slobbering all over Deininger and look what happened to him.

 

Jones' last three full season in the minors went like this average wise: .277/.313/.369 And Young's were .262/.277 The comparisons to Jones are unneccessary and flat out wrong. As for hitting 50 HRs, he'll never do that unless he learns to consistently hit breaking balls. His AFL scouting report said that when pitchers strating throwing him straight junk he went through the floor, which might have been an indicator for the Sox to devalue him a bit.

 

I think the Mike Cameron comparison is valid, and if he does imitate Cameron's numbers or does slightly better (look at Cameron's AA numbers), the trade still works out well for the Sox. Trading a Mike Cameron clone who doesn't neccesarily fit in to the organizational scheme for a 29-year-old who is basically a bet to throw you 220+ IP is a no brainer. And remember, I hear that Paul Konerko guy, the guy we got for Cameron, is pretty good.

[winninguglyin83]

Rupe.

 

Webster.

 

Majewski.

 

Haigwood.

 

Gonzalez.

 

Young.

 

Morse.

 

Reed.

 

others I can't remember.

 

Sooner or later, we're going to get burned really badly on one of these deals.

 

it's inevitable.

 

But if the goal is to spend money to stay on top with solid players, I'm conflicted about trading the youngters because most of them DO NOT pan out.

 

But of this group, I gotta figure that one or two of them are going to be all-stars.

 

Looking at all the outfield deals we have made, I have to figure that they truly believe Brian Anderson will be a solid, solid player.

 

Otherwise, it makes no sense to deal Rowand, Reed and Chris Young.

 

Thoughts?

[southsider2k5]

Rupe.

 

Webster.

 

Majewski.

 

Haigwood.

 

Gonzalez.

 

Young.

 

Morse.

 

Reed.

 

others I can't remember.

 

Sooner or later, we're going to get burned really badly on one of these deals.

 

it's inevitable.

 

But if the goal is to spend money to stay on top with solid players, I'm conflicted about trading the youngters because most of them DO NOT pan out.

 

But of this group, I gotta figure that one or two of them are going to be all-stars.

 

Looking at all the outfield deals we have made, I have to figure that they truly believe Brian Anderson will be a solid, solid player.

 

Otherwise, it makes no sense to deal Rowand, Reed and Chris Young.

 

Thoughts?

 

All that list tells me is that we have been damned good at making these deals, and we should trust the GM here, as he has one hell of a track record.

[GoSox05]

Hes the next Henry Aaron.

[ZoomSlowik]

All that list tells me is that we have been damned good at making these deals, and we should trust the GM here, as he has one hell of a track record.

 

Another thing to consider is how many times has the guy traded in a deal like this turned into a guy that made more than 1 All-star team? I can think of only a few, and to be honest I think some of these were after they'd already hit the major league roster:

 

-Red Sox deal Bagwell

-Tigers (I think) deal John Smoltz

-Cubs deal Willis (personally I think the jury is still out on him)

-Sox deal Sosa

-Tribe move Sexon

-Tribe move Giles

-Astros move Abreu

-Gary Sheffield moved several times

-Braves traded someone good when they were young, name escapes me

 

I'm sure there are more that I am missing, but it'd still probably be a stretch to say that there are 20 such deals in major league history where a prospect or young underachieving player was dealt that later turned into a star. One thing I will say is that Gio and Young seem to be the best quality of prospects he's dealt, the only ones that are close being Reed (who seems to have a lower ceiling and was one of several OF prospects), Kip Wells (we know how that turned out, and he was in the majors when dealt), Fogg in that same deal (same as Wells), and Rauch (who was on his way down as a prospect).

[ptatc]

I agree with the Mike Cameron Comparison. High HR, high steals along with high strikeouts and low average. Since OH can't pitch out of the pen as I've said and Viz was a good but not great in middle relief. Adding Young to the deal was acceptable. especially with Anderson in CF, I like Sweeney as a better overall hitter.