What should the 2007 White Sox be?

[greg775]

What if we traded Thome for big-time relief pitching.

Signed Barry Bonds for one year to replace Thome.

Traded for Griffey for prospects.

Wouldn't that be wild stuff???

[Rowand44]

Wouldn't mind seeing Freel in left and Lugo at ss batting 1 & 2. Not sure how realistic it is.

Freel is a mess of a human being and Lugo is an absolute butcher at short. I'd much rather have Uribe starting for us at short than Lugo.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 29, 2006 -> 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if we traded Thome for big-time relief pitching.

Signed Barry Bonds for one year to replace Thome.

Traded for Griffey for prospects.

Wouldn't that be wild stuff???

Just stop it.

 

Trading guys with OPS's over 1.000 for BULLPEN arms is completely stupid.

Thome isn't going to waive his NTC again after being back with his family

I think the backlash of trading Thome to make a spot for Barry Bonds would be terrible (Why not just sign Bonds to replace Pods???)

Griffey is still hurt

 

We don't have an unlimited payroll. If we did, I'd rather get Tejada to replace Uribe instead of Griffey to replace Anderson.

Edited September 29, 2006 by santo=dorf

[fathom]

Wouldn't mind seeing Freel in left and Lugo at ss batting 1 & 2. Not sure how realistic it is.

 

We'd really be improving the character of the team.

[NorthSideSox72]

If the Sox picked up Barry Bonds, I would get a refund for my season ticket money and simply not go to any games. I joke not.

[Kalapse]

Reds won't part with Freel. at least not to my knowledge, although I think I read somewhere they won't. Lugo, however...

Why make more work for the Chicago Police Department?

[marsh]

I don't want alter boys, I want good ballplayers. Freel can get hammered every nite if it doesn't affect performance. Ozzie could just get one of his sons to be his chauffeur.

 

What is the consensus on Lugo's defense? He played short on a crappy Tampa field, plus one of the reasons Tampa's hot shot SS prospect didn't get called up earlier was because of his shoddy D. They didn't seem to mind Lugo playing there for a couple years. Thoughts?

[Baines3]

Okay everyone has been saying we need a new leadoff hitter, a better bullpen, more grinders, more balance, better starters, etc....

With all of these posts going on latley, i decided a new topic to see what each of you guys would do to make the 2007 a championship caliber team again.

Put together your 25 man roster. Be realistic, what should KW do?!?

 

My 25 man roster:

Starting Lineup:

Rollins SS (for Garcia and Uribe)

Crawford LF (for McCarthy and Sweeney)

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Iguchi 2B

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Anderson CF

Bench

Gload 1B, Cintron INF, Ozuna Inf/OF, Stewart C, Mackowiack OF/3B

Starting Rotation:

Contreras

Garland

Buerhle

Vazquez

Mussina/Pettite (sign via free agency)

Bullpen:

Jenks, Thorton, Macdougle, Cotts(innings eater),Chad Bradford (via free agency), Roberto Hernandez (via free agency)

 

I think if KW can do something along those lines we'll be okay!!

 

Bmac isn't going anyplace except to the starting rotation for the White Sox. Would like to see Roberto Hernandez but I sort of doubt that.

[nitetrain8601]

I don't want alter boys, I want good ballplayers. Freel can get hammered every nite if it doesn't affect performance. Ozzie could just get one of his sons to be his chauffeur.

 

What is the consensus on Lugo's defense? He played short on a crappy Tampa field, plus one of the reasons Tampa's hot shot SS prospect didn't get called up earlier was because of his shoddy D. They didn't seem to mind Lugo playing there for a couple years. Thoughts?

 

He's crap IMO and always has been.

[whitesox61382]

The guy that I would love to see in LF is Catalanotto. I think he would be a perfect fit for this team. You look up perfect #2 hitter in a dictionary and you will see a picture of this guy. The guy hits for average(.305 this year, .301 last year, .298 career), handles the bat well, puts the ball into play(only 90 SO the past two seasons combined), draws a reasonable amount of walks/gets on base(.382 OBP this year, .367 OBP last year, .363 OBP career), and while he doesn't steal many bases he does have good speed. I believe he is a FA this offseason and could probably be had for 4-5M/yr. The one problem that this creates is the lack of a true leadoff hitter. The Sox would have to look at other positions for a leadoff hitter(SS or CF). Personally, I would like to stick with Anderson in CF. You need to develop your own young players and he showed some improvement as the season went on. Unfortunately, there aren't many good leadoff options on the SS market. Would love Rollins, but I don't know if he is available and it would cost quite a bit to get him(more then Garcia and Uribe like the original poster suggested). I really don't like the idea of Lugo either. Some team will overpay for him and give him 8-9M/yr because he is the only reasonable SS on the FA market, and his D is below average. Other reasonable LF options:

 

Pierre - Despite his strong 2nd half, I am not a big fan of him. His speed and high BA make him a reasonable option, but his inability to draw walks hurts as a leadoff option(a smaller problem is his lack of power and so-so D at times).

 

Crisp - This is a guy I wouldn't mind taking a chance on. He has had a down year(partly due to injuries), but he has some talent and could be an ideal leadoff hitter. You shouldn't completely ignore the two previous seasons when he was a very good player. He can hit for average, has some pop, has a decent BB:SO ratio(could draw a few more walks), has very good speed, and plays a great defensive LF. Plus his trade value is low(might be able to get him plus a decent pitching prospect for Garcia/Vazquez) and he is still young(only 26).

 

Stewart - This was a name that someone else mentioned and it might be worth taking a look at him. The question is, is he completely healthy? The guy is a career .299 hitter, has some pop, always has a good BB:SO ratio, and still has decent speed. He might be had for a bargain given his injury prone season last year and might be worth taking a flier on.

 

As others have mentioned, I guarantee that at least 1 of the current starters will be moved and wouldn't be surprised if 2 are moved. The Sox need to hold onto McCarthy(see same reasoning as Anderson). If the Sox look to add a starter via the FA market, than one name to keep an eye on is Lilly. With the exception of his 2005 season, the guy has been very consistant. Plus it wouldn't hurt to add another lefty to the rotation(would prefer him over a guy like Redman). I would also like to see the Sox add another righty reliever. There are a handful of interesting veterans on the market, but the best choice IMO would be Speier from Toronto. Finally, they should look to add a right handed bat to the bench to platoon with Thome against lefties. Hillenbrand is a guy I would like, despite the bad rap that he got this season. The guy absolutely kills lefties(.338 BA/.863 OPS this year and .325BA/.886OPS last year). It is clear that this team needs to make some changes, but in an effort to retool and not rebuild. It will be interesting to see the payroll that the Sox have in mind as well. I don't envy KW this offseason because he has a bunch of tough choices combined with high expectations = ton of pressure.

[ExpatNYC]

Could Gooch play another infield position if Soriano took 2B?

[Ozzie's Accent]

Could Gooch play another infield position if Soriano took 2B?

 

I believe he used to play shortstop but had arm trouble which prompted the move to 2nd base. I don't think that there are any other options for Iguchi other than 2nd base at this point in his career.

[DrunkBomber]

I realize just about every team has Soriano aspirations but it is not a good idea for this team.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Okay everyone has been saying we need a new leadoff hitter, a better bullpen, more grinders, more balance, better starters, etc....

With all of these posts going on latley, i decided a new topic to see what each of you guys would do to make the 2007 a championship caliber team again.

Put together your 25 man roster. Be realistic, what should KW do?!?

 

My 25 man roster:

Starting Lineup:

Rollins SS (for Garcia and Uribe)

Crawford LF (for McCarthy and Sweeney)

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Iguchi 2B

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Anderson CF

Bench

Gload 1B, Cintron INF, Ozuna Inf/OF, Stewart C, Mackowiack OF/3B

Starting Rotation:

Contreras

Garland

Buerhle

Vazquez

Mussina/Pettite (sign via free agency)

Bullpen:

Jenks, Thorton, Macdougle, Cotts(innings eater),Chad Bradford (via free agency), Roberto Hernandez (via free agency)

 

I think if KW can do something along those lines we'll be okay!!

 

I applaud your guts to post this. You asked other posters to do the same thing but not a single poster has, but you sure got your share of criticism. Typical around here. Easy to criticize , cowards when it comes to opening themselves up to criticism. Quite frankly I love the idea of Crawford and Rollins. It adds tons of speed , power, average and defense. Between the 2 of them it adds up to about 75 doubles , 30 triples and 45 homeruns , both hit lefties fairly well and steal bases. Crawford is 25 , Rollins 28 .

 

I don't think Garcia and Uribe for Rollins is that farfetched as one poster suggested. Garcia is a potential 20 game winner in the NL. Uribe is a 20 homerun 70 rbi guy who plays good+ D.They also have the added intangible of having won a World Series.

[chisoxfan79]

I think the Sox could use Right handed thunder off the bench to give Thome a day off vs tough lefties and a guy that comes to mind is Pedro Feliz he can play first and third,I think we can trade Gload for him straight up, also when he is subbing for Thome he can play first and have Konerko DH leting Paulie rest a little more. I have no problem with the Talent in the bullpen I think Ozzie misuses the Bullpen. I do not have a clue what to do about leadoff it is real easy to say Crawford but getiing him is another issue, I am not a big Pierre fan he didn't start hitting till June this year the Cubs were buried by then.

[nitetrain8601]

If the Sox picked up Barry Bonds, I would get a refund for my season ticket money and simply not go to any games. I joke not.

 

That would be fine with me, means 1 more shot of me getting tickets.

[whitesox61382]

I applaud your guts to post this. You asked other posters to do the same thing but not a single poster has, but you sure got your share of criticism. Typical around here. Easy to criticize , cowards when it comes to opening themselves up to criticism. Quite frankly I love the idea of Crawford and Rollins. It adds tons of speed , power, average and defense. Between the 2 of them it adds up to about 75 doubles , 30 triples and 45 homeruns , both hit lefties fairly well and steal bases. Crawford is 25 , Rollins 28 .

 

I don't think Garcia and Uribe for Rollins is that farfetched as one poster suggested. Garcia is a potential 20 game winner in the NL. Uribe is a 20 homerun 70 rbi guy who plays good+ D.They also have the added intangible of having won a World Series.

 

It doesn't take guts to say lets get two of the top young players in the game. I don't think there is a Sox fan on this board that would not love to see Crawford and Rollins at the top of the lineup. He is getting criticized because it really isn't realistic. The first question is, are either of these guys going to be on the trade market this offseason? Would you trade two complete players who are a huge part of your teams foundation(or if Crawford and Rollins were on the Sox would you trade them)? I think that it is fair to say that neither team really WANTS to trade either of them, but they would be willing to listen to offers and if they are blown away might be willing to trade them.

 

For example, the main reason Crawford didn't get traded before the deadline was because their asking price was way too high. McCarthy and Sweeney(or Fields) would certainly get TB attention, but don't be surprised if they say that isn't enough for one of the young superstars of baseball(maybe McCarthy, Sweeney, AND Fields would be realistic in TB managements mind).

 

In regards to Rollins, do you honestly think that Garcia and Uribe is a package that would blow the Phillies management away? Hell, do you think that Garcia and Uribe would make the Phillies better next year instead of an inexperienced yet talented young starter(which the Phillies have a handful of) and Rollins? I would much rather have the latter in the long-run for sure, and probably the short-run as well. The fact is that no one knows what to expect from Garcia next year. Is he going to get his fastball back? Is the last month with his new splitter for real or a mirage? Can we expect the Garcia of the first half? His trade value isn't that high at this point because of these questions. Uribe shouldn't be starting in the majors. Any player that struggles to get on base twenty-five percent of the time shouldn't be starting no matter how much power or how good defensively they are. Making a switch from Rollins to Uribe would be a HUGE downgrade considering that Rollins is better across the board. I am all for trading for Rollins and Crawford, but lets be a little more realistic about it.

 

In regards to posting are own ideas, my post clearly goes over some realistic options with my brief opinion on each option. The truth is that this offseason has as many question marks and uncertainities as any in the history of the KW regime. It is nearly impossible to accurately guess what direction KW will take at this point.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It doesn't take guts to say lets get two of the top young players in the game. I don't think there is a Sox fan on this board that would not love to see Crawford and Rollins at the top of the lineup. He is getting criticized because it really isn't realistic. The first question is, are either of these guys going to be on the trade market this offseason? Would you trade two complete players who are a huge part of your teams foundation(or if Crawford and Rollins were on the Sox would you trade them)? I think that it is fair to say that neither team really WANTS to trade either of them, but they would be willing to listen to offers and if they are blown away might be willing to trade them.

 

For example, the main reason Crawford didn't get traded before the deadline was because their asking price was way too high. McCarthy and Sweeney(or Fields) would certainly get TB attention, but don't be surprised if they say that isn't enough for one of the young superstars of baseball(maybe McCarthy, Sweeney, AND Fields would be realistic in TB managements mind).

 

In regards to Rollins, do you honestly think that Garcia and Uribe is a package that would blow the Phillies management away? Hell, do you think that Garcia and Uribe would make the Phillies better next year instead of an inexperienced yet talented young starter(which the Phillies have a handful of) and Rollins? I would much rather have the latter in the long-run for sure, and probably the short-run as well. The fact is that no one knows what to expect from Garcia next year. Is he going to get his fastball back? Is the last month with his new splitter for real or a mirage? Can we expect the Garcia of the first half? His trade value isn't that high at this point because of these questions. Uribe shouldn't be starting in the majors. Any player that struggles to get on base twenty-five percent of the time shouldn't be starting no matter how much power or how good defensively they are. Making a switch from Rollins to Uribe would be a HUGE downgrade considering that Rollins is better across the board. I am all for trading for Rollins and Crawford, but lets be a little more realistic about it.

 

In regards to posting are own ideas, my post clearly goes over some realistic options with my brief opinion on each option. The truth is that this offseason has as many question marks and uncertainities as any in the history of the KW regime. It is nearly impossible to accurately guess what direction KW will take at this point.

 

 

Did u see anyone but him post a 25 man roster? Thats what he asked for but all he got was criticism instead. As far as realism goes who's to say whats realistic and what isnt ? Garcia is a 17 game winner and has pitched sum gems lately. Good starting pitching is a rare commodity. He's not that old and has added a new pitch that has hitters looking pretty foolish. I'm inclined to think you undervalue Garcia. I know that won't sit well with all the Garcia haters. You don't pitch a near perfect game and sum really quality starts after that against ML hitters and call it a mirage. Everyone talks about how pitchers need to learn a new pitch when they struggle and thats exactly what he did. Everyone is well aware that most championships are won with pitching and I don't see any depth of proven quality starters on the Phillies who just missed the playoffs.

 

Personally I'd love to see Crawford and Rollins on the Sox but I'd be almost as happy sticking with Garcia.

Just because its not likely to happen doesnt make it unrealistic. You'll be right 95% of the time saying its not gonna happen, thats just too easy and thats what I see way too much of around here.

Edited October 1, 2006 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[whitesox61382]

Did u see anyone but him post a 25 man roster? Thats what he asked for but all he got was criticism instead. As far as realism goes who's to say whats realistic and what isnt ? Garcia is a 17 game winner and has pitched sum gems lately. Good starting pitching is a rare commodity. He's not that old and has added a new pitch that has hitters looking pretty foolish. I'm inclined to think you undervalue Garcia. I know that won't sit well with all the Garcia haters. You don't pitch a near perfect game and sum really quality starts after that against ML hitters and call it a mirage. Everyone talks about how pitchers need to learn a new pitch when they struggle and thats exactly what he did. Everyone is well aware that most championships are won with pitching and I don't see any depth of proven quality starters on the Phillies who just missed the playoffs.

 

Personally I'd love to see Crawford and Rollins on the Sox but I'd be almost as happy sticking with Garcia.

Just because its not likely to happen doesnt make it unrealistic. You'll be right 95% of the time saying its not gonna happen, thats just too easy and thats what I see way too much of around here.

 

For starters, wins are one of the worst stats to judge a pitcher by. Wins(and loses) are a team stat that is the product of multiple variable(starting pitching, relief pitching, defense, offense, ect) of which starting pitching is only a small piece of the puzzle. If a starter pitches a bad game, but the team wins nine-eight(and the starter gets the win with eight earned runs) does that make the pitcher good? Or conversely, if he pitches a great game, but loses two-one(and the starter gets the lose with two earned runs) does that make the pitcher bad? People use wins as a crutch when they know the stats that more accurately determine the value of a pitcher(such as ERA, WHIP, OPS against, BA against, ect stats the pitcher has almost complete control over unlike wins/loses) are not that impressive(which is the case with Garcia).

 

Good starting pitching is a rare comodity, but mediocre starting pitching isn't(which is what Garcia has become). The added a new pitch argument only goes so far. I bet you were one of the guys that said that Loiaza's great season wasn't a fluke because of his newly added cutter as well. The fact remains that there are a ton of Loiaza-types that develop a new pitch, have a little success with it, and then the league catches up with them and they revert back to their old ways. You can't judge the last month of Garcia as the norm. Almost EVERY pitcher in the majors has a good stretch, does that mean we should simple ignore the rest of his season(that sort of selective use of stats makes for a weak argument). If you watch baseball at all, than you would know that dozens of pitchers flirt with no hitters over the course of a season. You make it sound as though it is a rare accomplishment only achieved by elite pitchers(which couldn't be further from the truth).

 

The fact is that fans of a team more often overvalue a players worth(which you clearly do) opposed to undervalue them. All I did was put myself in the shoes of a Phillies fan and ask if I would want Garcia(and Uribe for that matter), especially at the cost of Rollins. While Garcia wouldn't be a horrible option, you have to question whether it is worth that price(Rollins), and whether it is worth giving a mediocre short-term solution a chance over a more talented youngster with a higher upside(Hamels, Madson, Mathieson, and Myers). I don't hate Garcia, I am just realistic when it comes to his trade value. You are a classic fan that wants to trade his teams mediocre players for another teams top players and I am just trying to bring a reality to your world.

 

"Just because its not likely to happen doesnt make it unrealistic."

 

Do you actually read what you post before you post it? Do you even know what unrealistic means? This has to be one of the funnier lines I have seen this week.

[cuddlyboy26]

Will Uribe be back? How much will he sign for and how long if he does return?

[Balta1701]

Will Uribe be back? How much will he sign for and how long if he does return?

Juan Uribe is already signed. He is under contract for $4.5 million in 2007, and the team holds an option for $5.5 million or so in 2008.

[cuddlyboy26]

Juan Uribe is already signed. He is under contract for $4.5 million in 2007, and the team holds an option for $5.5 million or so in 2008.

 

Oh I read on a site somewhere he was a FA. Well I doubt they pick up his 2008 option, although it depends on next year, I still doubt it happening.

[kwolf68]

So Juan Uribe is in a contract year next year? If we do keep him, he'll probably do quite well.

[greg775]

Does anybody with inside knowledge of the Sox know anything about Uribe?

Is he a hothead?

Does he not take instruction well?

He seems to have a ton of offensive tools but has the totally wrong approach.

Will he not take coaching to spray the ball all over the field?

He's a great defender? What's his problem not using those tools offensively?

I mean you can tell he has potential the way he takes a whack at the ball?

Too impatient at the plate? Trying for hrs too much?

 

SEND URIBE TO WINTER BALL WITH A HITTING COACH

[GreatScott82]

I applaud your guts to post this. You asked other posters to do the same thing but not a single poster has, but you sure got your share of criticism. Typical around here. Easy to criticize , cowards when it comes to opening themselves up to criticism. Quite frankly I love the idea of Crawford and Rollins. It adds tons of speed , power, average and defense. Between the 2 of them it adds up to about 75 doubles , 30 triples and 45 homeruns , both hit lefties fairly well and steal bases. Crawford is 25 , Rollins 28 .

 

I don't think Garcia and Uribe for Rollins is that farfetched as one poster suggested. Garcia is a potential 20 game winner in the NL. Uribe is a 20 homerun 70 rbi guy who plays good+ D.They also have the added intangible of having won a World Series.

thanks cali! i just wanted to see what everyone thought it would take for us to get back on top. Obviously KW said he will be making minor tweaks. It would be nice to get both Rollins and Crawford, but there is a good chance that wont happen. Ozzie wants speed, so i'll be really dissappointed if KW doesn't try his best to aqcuire a guy like Rollins or Crawford, or in my wishes both