McCarthy Traded to Texas

[Jordan4life_2007]

We have a winnar!

 

If BMac went for Soriano, we'd have no shot at resigning him in this crazy ass offseason and KW would have had one testicle sent to the Sun Times and the other to the Trib by rabid Sox fans before they strung him up for trading the sudden inside track pitcher for the CYA and that is going to singlehandedly change a division for a three month rental.

 

And correct me again since we're on the same page, Jordan -- the offense didn't seem to be the problem. It was the pitching that kept wetting the bed.

 

We had an unproven pitcher that had a handful of good games and was never in the rotation. Nobody knew or knows if he'll be able to handle that load and pressure. We got what we could for him, especially if he proceeds to wet the bed.

 

And let's keep overvaluing our own players please.

I personally thought we should have gotten Pujols, Rolen and Edmonds for him straight up or perhaps with a throw in prospect.

 

We're definitely on the same page.

[Milkman delivers]

People are doing a ridiculous amount of defending a guy who has yet to pitch more than half a season as a starter in the majors. He could be good. He could break down. How will he react to 200+ innings? Can he make it?

 

To be honest, I am in favor of this trade. I don't know how much of an asset McCarthy would've been this year. He may have sucked, for all that we know. And Danks is supposed to be one of the better pitching prospects in baseball.

 

But, it does seem like some of B-Mac's biggest defenders over the last year or so are now saying that "he isn't a proven commodity" when they'd probably be saying that "he's the best bargain in baseball" had he not been traded. I'm just saying, is all.

 

Merry Christmas to all, by the way.

[Texsox]

It's all about potential for potential. Both of the major players in this trade have the potential to be #1 Aces in most MLB lineups. It is impossible to predict with any great certainty. So look to the other players tossed in and I think the odds are slightly better that the Sox will get more use out of these players than what was traded. The difference is so slim that this isn't that big of a deal on talent alone. Toss in personality, those couple of gems that bmac tossed, and you have a 700 post thread. On talent alone this will be an edge trade. Someone will get a slight edge out of it.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I didnt read the entire thread so I dont know if thjis was mentioned or not, but is there any possibility aquiring Danks has also a little to do with his brother? The way KW covets people and never forgets about them, could this possibly be a way to convince Jordan to leave Texas so they can draft him again?

[SkokieSox]

I didnt read the entire thread so I dont know if thjis was mentioned or not, but is there any possibility aquiring Danks has also a little to do with his brother? The way KW covets people and never forgets about them, could this possibly be a way to convince Jordan to leave Texas so they can draft him again?

I don't think that is the purpose, but certainly would be a nice benefit.

[Harry Chappas]

I didnt read the entire thread so I dont know if thjis was mentioned or not, but is there any possibility aquiring Danks has also a little to do with his brother? The way KW covets people and never forgets about them, could this possibly be a way to convince Jordan to leave Texas so they can draft him again?

 

The Jordan Danks thing has been brought up. He can come out as a junior (I think he is a junior) this June or stay another year. He could use this to try and play with his brother as a team may not want to risk losing a 1st round pick on him which the Sox could use. They have the relationship with the family from a couple of years back. This would make KW looked like a complete genius if it worked out.

 

My thoughts are the Sox wanted Haegar in the rotation this year and this is the easist way to get it. McCarthy would whine and complain if he was sent down to start the year and then replace an injured pitcher during the year or Buerhle the next year. I think the Tampa game and the disaster that was his attempt at relieving cost him the job in this organization. I also think that there is a bigger move coming for these younger guys.

[Jeremy]

He's rising based on his Mexican League performance.

 

Definitely. The Mexican League performance is exciting. I still don't think he cracks a top 100 though and I'd say you need to be in the top 30 or so to be considered "top notch" or elite.

[RME JICO]

Phil Arivia joins the hate crew

 

I thought this quote was pretty funny from Arvia:

Any pitchers Williams has gotten in the McCarthy and Garcia trades, as far as next season is concerned, are bottom-of-the-rotation, middle-of-the-'pen guys.

 

Isn't that all the Sox need, a bottom-of-the-rotation and middle-of-the-pen guys? Also, wasn't that exactly what McCarthy was in 2006 and was going to be in 2007? I know he has more upside than that, but with the other four veteran starters returning, more than likely he would have been the 5th starter.

[TitoMB345]

I thought this quote was pretty funny from Arvia:

 

Isn't that all the Sox need, a bottom-of-the-rotation and middle-of-the-pen guys? Also, wasn't that exactly what McCarthy was in 2006 and was going to be in 2007? I know he has more upside than that, but with the other four veteran starters returning, more than likely he would have been the 5th starter.

I firmly believe McCarthy would outperform Vazquez. While he would probably be listed as the 5th, I have solid belief we would recognize him as the 4th. But that is just a minor detail.

[gosox41]

Definitely. The Mexican League performance is exciting. I still don't think he cracks a top 100 though and I'd say you need to be in the top 30 or so to be considered "top notch" or elite.

 

 

He may not be Top 100 and I haven't seen him pitch to form an opinion, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very good reliever.

 

I have to trust KW, his scouts, and Coop on this one. High rankings are nice, but not every major leaguer was a top 100 prospect, especially when it comes to middle relievers. If minor league rankings meant success, then I must have missed all the victories Rauch and Ruffcorn got the Sox over the years.

 

 

 

Bob

[greg775]

And 95% of this board would've been demanding that Kenny be fired for failing to re-sign him and, for all intents and purposes, giving away Brandon for a 3-month rental

 

I don't think anybody would have wanted Kenny fired for that, especially if

it brought us another playoff/Series.

He gambled in standing pat during the second half and that didn't work.

Now like Arvia wrote, we appear to have a lot of holes for the coming season.

I don't think anybody calls for KW's head anymore, not after he brought us

a World Series title.

I think he and Oz deserve lifetime contracts for that.

But it's puzzling what he's doing for the coming season.

If Pods is finished as a productive leadoff hitter and Anderson continues to struggle, and our

starters pitch as they did much of last year, we are screwed.

 

I think everybody was hopeful BMac would be the stud pitcher we need next

year. Now we've cut two proven starters from the mix.

Is the knuckleballer destined to start for us this season??

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't think anybody would have wanted Kenny fired for that, especially if

it brought us another playoff/Series.

He gambled in standing pat during the second half and that didn't work.

Now like Arvia wrote, we appear to have a lot of holes for the coming season.

I don't think anybody calls for KW's head anymore, not after he brought us

a World Series title.

I think he and Oz deserve lifetime contracts for that.

But it's puzzling what he's doing for the coming season.

If Pods is finished as a productive leadoff hitter and Anderson continues to struggle, and our

starters pitch as they did much of last year, we are screwed.

 

I think everybody was hopeful BMac would be the stud pitcher we need next

year. Now we've cut two proven starters from the mix.

Is the knuckleballer destined to start for us this season??

 

Nothing against you, but I get sick of people that act like Soriano, or any one player, would've lifted us from 3rd place to another title. Are main problems in '06 are well documented. Our starting pitching failed us last year. Period! Our Bullpen failed us last year. Period! Our offense kept us alive for most of the year, but we couldn't overcome the shady pitching.

 

As far as holes that we have for the upcoming year? Show me a team that doesn't have potential holes? Scott Podsednik had a bad year last year. No way around it. Was there a realistic upgrade available? Nope. Brian Anderson? Yes, he was absolutely brutal in April/May/June. But he showed considerable improvement as the year went along. He's already GG caliber. So do we give up on the guy after one tough year? His rookie year at that? Again, was there a realistic upgrade available? Pierre? Figgins? Matthews Jr? Yuck, yuck and more yuck.

 

B-mac could very well turn out to be a "stud" pitcher. But he's far from "proven." Freddy Garcia is proven. But his best days appear to be behind him. And there's no way in hell I would expect Kenny/Jerry to shell out 13-15 million for him. Which he's undoubtedly gonna get when he hits the FA market.

[RockRaines]

It's all about potential for potential. Both of the major players in this trade have the potential to be #1 Aces in most MLB lineups.

I disagree, I never have thought BMAC had to potential to be an ACE, he looks like a #3 to me, whilst Danks has the abiltiy to be a #1.

[Jeremy]

He may not be Top 100 and I haven't seen him pitch to form an opinion, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very good reliever.

 

I have to trust KW, his scouts, and Coop on this one. High rankings are nice, but not every major leaguer was a top 100 prospect, especially when it comes to middle relievers. If minor league rankings meant success, then I must have missed all the victories Rauch and Ruffcorn got the Sox over the years.

Bob

 

Certainly being a highly touted prospect is not a prerequisite for success. I was simply addressing the description of Massett as a "top notch prospect" since I feel he's getting larger billing amongst Sox fans than he would from most partial observers.

 

I'm glad you mentioned our scouts because I think scouting has played an enourmous role in our offseason moves. With the acquisition of Floyd, Kenny's "we'll continue to scout the players and not the numbers" comment, and his apparent preference for Danks over McCarthy, it appears we're weighing scouting reports as heavily as any team in the majors. Every team relies on scouts and trusts in their scouts' opinions, but a scout can only be so much more skilled than your average scout or the scouts would be making millions instead of the players. Consider it one of many reasons it will be fascinating to see how these moves turn out.

[Vance Law]

Yipes! I was surprised to see this trade after not checking the internet over xmas.

I'm not one of these 'the sky is falling' types, but rather think the sky is going to stay where it is, in the sky.

Seems to me Williams was overwhelmed by the offer. Masset plus potential ace Danks(up till now we didn't have one in the organization). It certainly leaves us with a little more of a question mark for th 5 starter. Who the hell beat us last year, though? Detroit, Minnesota- who the balls were they marching out there to pitch? Neither team certainly had at least 4 guys as presumably solid and dependable as the 4 veterans we stil have. Garza, Scott Baker, and a gentleman named Boof? 21 yr old Verlander and Zach Miner. Certainly staffs with those question marks couldn't outperform our 5 solid veterans. Except certainly they did. Is a 5th starter of Floyd, Danks, Haeger, or Sisco (or Thorton?) any different than those guys? What is the difference between 21 year old potential ace Danks in 2007 and 21 year old McCarthy in '05? Will our 5th starter, whoever it is, be worse than Duke Hernandez starting in '05.

 

and the offseason's not over yet. Excitement!

[hitlesswonder]

I disagree, I never have thought BMAC had to potential to be an ACE, he looks like a #3 to me, whilst Danks has the abiltiy to be a #1.

 

The guys that run the Lone Star Ball blog have exactly the opposite take on the trade:

 

There also seems to be little doubt, though, that Brandon McCarthy is viewed the same way, and is seen as having a greater upside.

 

McCarthy can come in and join the rotation immediately, and could be a legit #1 starter. Danks is a half-year to a year away, and his upside is generally seen as a #2 or #3.

 

I'm curious, have you seen Danks pitch? I haven't -- all I have seen are his minor league numbers, which aren't any better than McCarthy's. I agree that Brandon's stuff doesn't make anyone think of Clemens. But I think he could perform like Radke. I have no idea what Danks will do. But he's not prospect at level of Hughes or someone like that.

[RockRaines]

The guys that run the Lone Star Ball blog have exactly the opposite take on the trade:

I'm curious, have you seen Danks pitch? I haven't -- all I have seen are his minor league numbers, which aren't any better than McCarthy's. I agree that Brandon's stuff doesn't make anyone think of Clemens. But I think he could perform like Radke. I have no idea what Danks will do. But he's not prospect at level of Hughes or someone like that.

So you based your opinions of the trade on a blog by a rangers fan?

Im not sure I should even respond to such foolishness.

 

Numbers are numbers, but Danks has been the youngest guy in the league every step of the way. Last year in AAA he was the youngest pitcher in the league, struggled to begin with and then dominated, the same pattern he has developed his whole career. You will be hard pressed to find ANY baseball experts that think that BMAC projects as more towards the front of the rotation than Danks. If you would find me a source, other than a blog, that states that fact, I will gladly retract.

[Leonard Zelig]

In the past year, without any changes to the regular lineup, we went from World Series favorites to a team with lots of holes.

[RockRaines]

In the past year, without any changes to the regular lineup, we went from World Series favorites to a team with lots of holes.

We got rid of a pitcher with a 4.53 ERA. Damn.

 

Our bullpen should be better IMO, and the SP's should move back towards what they should be able to do.

[Soxbadger]

I never was a huge fan of B-Macs.

 

Its not that he does not have the talent, its just that none of his stuff wows you. So B-Macs ability will be almost entirely dependent on how is mental game progresses and how well he can work batters.

 

I read some one say that B-Mac will outperform Vaz, I really do not think thats likely.

[RockRaines]

I never was a huge fan of B-Macs.

 

Its not that he does not have the talent, its just that none of his stuff wows you. So B-Macs ability will be almost entirely dependent on how is mental game progresses and how well he can work batters.

 

I read some one say that B-Mac will outperform Vaz, I really do not think thats likely.

I was and I am a very big fan of BMAC. In fact I pointed him out when he was in A ball, and loved when he finally made the debut with the big team. With that said, Danks excites me much more. It is said that he has a dominating changeup to go with his plus curve and fastball. I LOVE the idea of watching us trot out a LHP with nice heat, a dominating changeup and a knee buckling curve. Up until this trade, we never really had a possible future ACE in our system. Now we have a possible #1, a #2, and maybe a #3 in our system right now. Pretty sweet if you ask me.

[GreatScott82]

BMac will definitley be an allstar if not this year, then next year. Its tough to see him go, however i read nothing but good things about Danks and he is also a Lefty which makes it nicer. (Probably to replace Buerhle if he leaves next year)

My favorite BMac moment was when he spot started for El-duque in 2005 vs the Cubs and shut them down!!

[Soxbadger]

BMac will definitley be an allstar if not this year, then next year.

 

That would mean he would have been the White Sox best pitcher this year or next year.

 

How many pitchers even make the all star game, and when is the last one to come from Texas?

 

B-Mac first needs to pitch with a sub 4.0 era for an entire season.

[Heads22]

How can you say he can be an all-star despite not having gone half of a season as a starter?

[Soxbadger]

Well B-Mac is going to Texas which is a pitchers park, and its also a park that does not give up a lot of HR's (which is B-Macs weakness) so the transition should be smooth.

 

(Hope you can sense the sarcasm, but not sure why Texas wouldnt look for ground ball pitchers.)