AGon sent down?

[29thandPoplar]

The WSI guy was 100% on one of the most recent Charlotte personnel moves.

 

If its true and I believe it is then another move needs to be made before tomorrow nights game. They need to get somebody off the 40 man.

 

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to Charlotte's roster, he's still on the 40 man.

 

Yes, who knows, it could be somebody else they outright. Or trade, or whatever.

[Gregory Pratt]

"AGon"? I hate these nicknames. I hate this minor league system.

[EvilJester99]

Thinking on it... does Mac even have any options?

[chisox72]

Thinking on it... does Mac even have any options?

 

Yes, one. But according to what Rongey was saying after the game, he would have to clear waivers in order to go down. That being said, I highly doubt some other team wouldn't try to claim him. If anything, just to stick it to us given our current state of bullpen struggles/desperation.

[29thandPoplar]

I did not hear Rongey but if a player has an option left I do not know why he'd have to clear waivers. The White Sox could simply exercise the option and it is valid for the entire 2007 season. Unless I'm missing something here.

[chisox72]

I did not hear Rongey but if a player has an option left I do not know why he'd have to clear waivers. The White Sox could simply exercise the option and it is valid for the entire 2007 season. Unless I'm missing something here.

 

Someone on here that has better insight into that sort of thing can probably explain it better than me. But, I remember him saying that this option that remained was not as simple as exercising it and sending him down. That he had to go on retractable waivers, I believe. That basically Williams had to put him out there first and see if anyone wanted him. They could then pull him off or let him go if another team tried to claim him. Assuming he cleared from there, he could go down. Again, there are a ton of people here that know more about the way situations like this work.

[fathom]

If the Sox put MacDougal on waivers, he'll get claimed in a second. He has a reasonable contract, and teams will think they can fix his mechanics.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

MacDougal for Rowand

 

 

 

 

kidding.....

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox put MacDougal on waivers, he'll get claimed in a second. He has a reasonable contract, and teams will think they can fix his mechanics.

Good, because obviously Cooper can't. Why pay him for 3 years when he can't throw a strike? BTW, in 2005 KW paid Luis Vicaino and Dustin Hermanson about the same amount he's paying the entire bullpen in 2007. That's before the days of a $100 million payroll. A sea of empty green seats around August may finally get the message through his thick skull that he needs a strong bullpen to win, and picking up Royals and Cubs rejects probably won't get that done.

[briguy27]

maybe a crede trade is almost 100% done, so we're bringing up fields

 

that'll be the day...

[iamshack]

Good, because obviously Cooper can't. Why pay him for 3 years when he can't throw a strike? BTW, in 2005 KW paid Luis Vicaino and Dustin Hermanson about the same amount he's paying the entire bullpen in 2007. That's before the days of a $100 million payroll. A sea of empty green seats around August may finally get the message through his thick skull that he needs a strong bullpen to win, and picking up Royals and Cubs rejects probably won't get that done.

 

The problem is what constitutes a "strong" bullpen changes from year to year. Ask the Cubs about that one.

 

You can try and sign some of the few guys that have been able to remain effective out of the bullpen on a somewhat consistent basis. But those guys are few and far between and they often end up closing somewhere which makes them even more ridiculously expensive. This really isn't as simple as people try to make it sound.

[hitlesswonder]

The problem is what constitutes a "strong" bullpen changes from year to year. Ask the Cubs about that one.

 

You can try and sign some of the few guys that have been able to remain effective out of the bullpen on a somewhat consistent basis. But those guys are few and far between and they often end up closing somewhere which makes them even more ridiculously expensive. This really isn't as simple as people try to make it sound.

 

I agree. You can fault WIlliams for the current outcome, but the way he assembled the bullpen was defensible. The back-end of Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal should have been pretty good. The key really is MacDougal, who if he was performing like he did in 2005 and 2006 (3.30 ERA those 2 years) would be a very good setup man. It's hard to claim Kenny should have foreseen him pitching far worse than he ever has before in the bigs. Williams gambled on Aardsma, Sisco, and Masset and lost on all of them.

[Dick Allen]

The problem is what constitutes a "strong" bullpen changes from year to year. Ask the Cubs about that one.

 

You can try and sign some of the few guys that have been able to remain effective out of the bullpen on a somewhat consistent basis. But those guys are few and far between and they often end up closing somewhere which makes them even more ridiculously expensive. This really isn't as simple as people try to make it sound.

 

Actually, I really don't think its that hard, especially with a rotation that is pretty much guaranteed to give you at least 6 innings every night, and a closer who isn't going to be expensive for a few years. Last year he thought he was so smart he signed every 6 year minor league free agent and had them fight for a spot in the defending champions bullpen and they all showed why they were 6 year free agents. This year he looked a radar guns and came to the conclusion that his new bullpen although vastly inexperience, especially in any game of importance, was one of the tops in the league before spring training even started. That by getting a guy with a 7.00 ERA with the Royals and a guy with a 4.00 ERA from the Cubs who both have had a lot of problems with strikes and one a lot of problems keeping the ball in the park. Even Cooper has come to the conclusion Aardsma can't handle pressure. The guy mustn't be too good if he's already been part of a package for a washed up LaTroy Hawkins and part of a package for Neal Cotts, a guy who couldn't get anyone out the last part of last season. The Angels bullpen was vastly superior to the White Sox and they spent money improving it. KW is so impressed with himself he thinks he can judge future performance based on Arizona fall league and a couple of tapes.

[EvilJester99]

Someone just said Ozzie Jr. just mentioned Gio Gonzalez coming up...possibly. Anyone listening to his show right now and can speak or atleast understand spanish...

[southsideirish71]

Someone just said Ozzie Jr. just mentioned Gio Gonzalez coming up...possibly. Anyone listening to his show right now and can speak or atleast understand spanish...

 

Gaelic yes, Spanish no.

 

Gio as a reliever?

[EvilJester99]

Yep

[Dick Allen]

I agree. You can fault WIlliams for the current outcome, but the way he assembled the bullpen was defensible. The back-end of Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal should have been pretty good. The key really is MacDougal, who if he was performing like he did in 2005 and 2006 (3.30 ERA those 2 years) would be a very good setup man. It's hard to claim Kenny should have foreseen him pitching far worse than he ever has before in the bigs. Williams gambled on Aardsma, Sisco, and Masset and lost on all of them.

Its not far worse. He's been awful with KC before and he's always a good bet to wind up on the DL. Thornton was a bust until last season. He wasn't going to make Seattle's roster in 2006. If you go with the theory that relievers are good then bad, how can you rely on him in 2007?

[Gregory Pratt]

If Gio came up as a reliever, I could support that. Gives him a taste of the League, and it's the old-time route to the rotation.

 

He's not the first guy I'd call up, though.

[Soxfest]

Not real excited about any of this at this point!

[iamshack]

Actually, I really don't think its that hard, especially with a rotation that is pretty much guaranteed to give you at least 6 innings every night, and a closer who isn't going to be expensive for a few years. Last year he thought he was so smart he signed every 6 year minor league free agent and had them fight for a spot in the defending champions bullpen and they all showed why they were 6 year free agents. This year he looked a radar guns and came to the conclusion that his new bullpen although vastly inexperience, especially in any game of importance, was one of the tops in the league before spring training even started. That by getting a guy with a 7.00 ERA with the Royals and a guy with a 4.00 ERA from the Cubs who both have had a lot of problems with strikes and one a lot of problems keeping the ball in the park. Even Cooper has come to the conclusion Aardsma can't handle pressure. The guy mustn't be too good if he's already been part of a package for a washed up LaTroy Hawkins and part of a package for Neal Cotts, a guy who couldn't get anyone out the last part of last season. The Angels bullpen was vastly superior to the White Sox and they spent money improving it. KW is so impressed with himself he thinks he can judge future performance based on Arizona fall league and a couple of tapes.

 

I'm not buying this bs that Aardsma can't handle pressure. The guy was a top closer in college. He looked awfully good at the beginning of this year in quite a few pressure situations. He obviously is experiencing difficulties right now, but I'm not giving up on the guy yet. Sisco was an obvious project and we all damned well knew that coming in. Macdougal is a complete mystery. Massett has performed extremely inconsistently- but that's what young kids do when they come up- they are inconsistent.

 

Our bullpen problems are being exacerbated right now because the offense isn't performing. Look at Cleveland's bullpen- they have the same number of bullpen guys as us worth a damn- two. But their offense is clicking on all cylinders and so it isn't as big of a deal as ours is at the moment.

 

The difference between things going right personnel-wise and going wrong is incredibly more slight than one would think. That difference is exaggerated exponentially when your personnel isn't performing. That's not Kenny's fault. That the fault of the players.

[Dick Allen]

I wouldn't call Gio up to be in the bullpen. Call him up in September and let him start a few games that don't matter to let him get his feet wet. You put him in the bullpen now and you will be seeing a lot of walks.

[fathom]

If Gio came up as a reliever, I could support that. Gives him a taste of the League, and it's the old-time route to the rotation.

 

He's not the first guy I'd call up, though.

 

I'd enjoy seeing Gio called up. Give us another thing to add to the list of exciting aspects on this team.

[hitlesswonder]

Its not far worse. He's been awful with KC before and he's always a good bet to wind up on the DL. Thornton was a bust until last season. He wasn't going to make Seattle's roster in 2006. If you go with the theory that relievers are good then bad, how can you rely on him in 2007?

Mac's career ERA is 3.91. For 2007 it's 7.13. That is far worse. The theory is that relievers are volatile, not that they are good then bad in a pattern. One benefit of going cheap with a reliever is that it's easy to cut bait. The Cubs can't do that with Eyre and Howry. I agree that KW would have done well to bring in one more veteran like Justin Speier. But if Mac were doing well or one of Masset/Sisco/Aardsma had panned out things wouldn't be the absolute debacle they are right now. You can argue Williams deserved to be canned for the absolute travesty of a minor league system he has, but I don't think the way he built the 2007 bullpen was obviously stupid.

[Dick Allen]

I'm not buying this bs that Aardsma can't handle pressure. The guy was a top closer in college. He looked awfully good at the beginning of this year in quite a few pressure situations. He obviously is experiencing difficulties right now, but I'm not giving up on the guy yet. Sisco was an obvious project and we all damned well knew that coming in. Macdougal is a complete mystery. Massett has performed extremely inconsistently- but that's what young kids do when they come up- they are inconsistent.

 

Our bullpen problems are being exacerbated right now because the offense isn't performing. Look at Cleveland's bullpen- they have the same number of bullpen guys as us worth a damn- two. But their offense is clicking on all cylinders and so it isn't as big of a deal as ours is at the moment.

 

The difference between things going right personnel-wise and going wrong is incredibly more slight than one would think. That difference is exaggerated exponentially when your personnel isn't performing. That's not Kenny's fault. That the fault of the players.

That's 3 guys in the bullpen that you just said we all could of and should have anticipated having problems. And another who has had control and injury problems in the past. That's fine for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays or the KC Royals, but its not a good thing if you are in the business of trying to win a championship. You don't have to buy Aaardsma not being able to handle pressure, but his pitching coach is questioning it. There are a lot of guys who were great in college but were awful professionals, even in lower levels.

[knightni]

If KW did that, I'd hope someone punches him in the face.

 

So our bullpen is Jenks, Thornton, Logan, Day, Prinz, and Buckvich?

 

and Masset.