Buehrle Wants a Five Year Contract

[southsider2k5]

Crede is cooked, there's no way he'll remain with the organization after this year. As much as it hurts me to say it.

 

He'll be back. He has no trade value what-so-ever.

[Dick Allen]

Didn't Jerry approach Mark and ask him that before he signed somewhere this off season that he give the sox a chance to consider matching the offer? And Mark agreed to it, IIRC.

Yes, but that's just a PR move. Buerhle will get 5 years minimum. The Sox aren't going 5 years. Its the "oh well we tried, we just couldn't match it" routine. There were reports the Sox were pissed at Dye because he didn't appear to be attached to the White Sox, and appeared that he wasn't going to give them a big discount. This was after KW said he wanted the Sox free agents to explore the market, that they owed it to their families. I would be absolutely shocked if either are back next year, and I think JR, KW, MB, JD and OG feel the same way.

[LVSoxFan]

I agree with Steff I don't think KW give's a rat's ass what the public or Sox fans think.

 

The ONLY possible pressure--and this is a long shot--might be that this teams sucks so bad (and '06 was a bust) he may feel some pressure to buy some goodwill by signing Buehrle, the fan favorite.

 

Then again, this is the guy who has no problem having a public spat with Frank and Magglio, also fan faves, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[AddisonStSox]

Somehow I don't think Kenny gives a crap how hot it gets.

 

Yeah, that's about right. I'm not going to disagree about that.

 

It will be the old White Sox chestnut: "Well, we attempted to bring Buehrle back, but, it just couldn't work out. But, hey! At least you all saw we gave it an honest go. Now, come back and buy tickets to see Jerry Owens.

 

They'll cry poor, claim Buehrle was really just out for the money, and then passive-aggressively wish him the best of luck.

[Steff]

Yeah, that's about right. I'm not going to disagree about that.

 

It will be the old White Sox chestnut: "Well, we attempted to bring Buehrle back, but, it just couldn't work out. But, hey! At least you all saw we gave it an honest go. Now, come back and buy tickets to see Jerry Owens.

 

They'll cry poor, claim Buehrle was really just out for the money, and then passive-aggressively wish him the best of luck.

 

 

They can cry all they want. Anyone that's paid any attention to this club before and beyond the "don't stop believing" days should not be surprised by Mark's impending exit.

 

The Sox have had 10K at games for extended periods of time before. They will survive.. until the next WS run when those "fans" will be back making my bathroom line hell again...

[AddisonStSox]

Enter the, "Can a Chicago Sports Franchise Really Cry Poor and Fail to Match Cap Figures with the other Major Cities", discussion.

 

It won't just go away. It's the 800lb. gorilla in the room with these guys--they are always aware of it, the fan base is always aware of it, but it never is addressed directly.

[Harry Chappas]

Didn't Contreras and Garland sign the same deals? Did Jose get 4 years? He signed after 2005, was this for 2006-2008? Was his an extension for 2007-2009? Was Garland's a pure three years for 2006-2008 becasue he was arbitration eligible?

 

With Buerhle you have to remember that Konerko and Thome will be coming off the books or valued at a lower price after year three. This is where Rick Hahn is invloved something like this

 

2008 - $12M

2009 - $12M

2010 - $15M

 

So far 3 yr $39M with other starters on the books also player can opt out of deal

 

2011 - $20M guaranteed if 500 innings reached in first three years - Team buy out $10M if 500 not reached - player opt out as well

 

Guaranteed 4 yr $49M - Potentially $59M if healthy or Mark can walk

 

2012 - $20M guaranteed if 700 innings reached through four years - Team buy $10M is 700 not reached - player can opt out as well

 

This deal guarantees Buerhle 4 yr $49M but allows him to leave or renegotiate after year three and lets the Sox out of the deal for $10M if he is done prior to the start of year 4.

[iamshack]

And those people that have paid attention should also realize that the policy that was implemented has worked out fairly well. If there is ONE thing KW has done extremely well is avoiding untradeable contracts. With all the horrible long-term deals given to pitchers over the past 10-12 years, I'm not quite sure how you can fault this particular policy of JR's.

[Steff]

And those people that have paid attention should also realize that the policy that was implemented has worked out fairly well. If there is ONE thing KW has done extremely well is avoiding untradeable contracts. With all the horrible long-term deals given to pitchers over the past 10-12 years, I'm not quite sure how you can fault this particular policy of JR's.

 

 

Winner...

 

 

I like Mark as much as anyone else, but I side with the "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy on this one.

[Wedge]

And those people that have paid attention should also realize that the policy that was implemented has worked out fairly well. If there is ONE thing KW has done extremely well is avoiding untradeable contracts. With all the horrible long-term deals given to pitchers over the past 10-12 years, I'm not quite sure how you can fault this particular policy of JR's.

 

Untradeable contracts like the one they gave Contreras which makes him... untradeable?

[iamshack]

Winner...

I like Mark as much as anyone else, but I side with the "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy on this one.

 

I can see where people would ask them to make an exception in Mark's case. He's the most durable pitcher in Major League Baseball over the past six years. Odds are he will always be very durable. But where I don't agree with re-signing him is simply because of the money he will command. I don't like the idea of committing that high a % of the payroll to any one player. It's unfortunate that the market for pitching has gotten so utterly ridiculous, but that doesn't mean we have to participate in it.

 

I think it's just a case of bad timing. Two years ago, we would be able to sign him for 5/50. Two years from now, the market might settle a bit and the going rate for top tier starters may be 5/60. Unfortunately right now though, it's $15-18 million a year. That's just too much for my liking.

[fathom]

I think it's just a case of bad timing. Two years ago, we would be able to sign him for 5/50. Two years from now, the market might settle a bit and the going rate for top tier starters may be 5/60. Unfortunately right now though, it's $15-18 million a year. That's just too much for my liking.

 

Here's where KW has to be willing to make a mistake though. What happens if the market doesn't correct itself over the next 3-5 years? In that case, will the Sox let every FA go because they don't want to "overpay", even though overpaying is the norm? If there was one player who JR and company could take the chance on with what might be a bad contract, it's Buehrle. As someone on Comcast said last night, not only is he less of a risk on the field than most pitchers, but the Sox fans would forgive JR and KW in a heartbeat if Buehrle doesn't live up to his contract.

[Steff]

Here's where KW has to be willing to make a mistake though. What happens if the market doesn't correct itself over the next 3-5 years? In that case, will the Sox let every FA go because they don't want to "overpay", even though overpaying is the norm? If there was one player who JR and company could take the chance on with what might be a bad contract, it's Buehrle. As someone on Comcast said last night, not only is he less of a risk on the field than most pitchers, but the Sox fans would forgive JR and KW in a heartbeat if Buehrle doesn't live up to his contract.

 

 

The problem is that in this market Mark is going to get offered more than 5 years/75 million. The Sox can NOT cripple themselves and be allowed to be raped by the market. Are the fans going to be so forgiving when it's Mark and 8 A ball players taking the field next season, and possibly the next 3 after that?

And holy hell if, God forbid, something happens to his arm.

[iamshack]

As someone on Comcast said last night, not only is he less of a risk on the field than most pitchers, but the Sox fans would forgive JR and KW in a heartbeat if Buehrle doesn't live up to his contract.

 

Oh? So if the Sox suck in 2010 because Pauly is (even) slower and old, and Mark is pitching like 2006 again because his arm is tired, fans will still come out to the park because KW and JR were nice enough to re-sign Mark for the fans? BS. This team draws well for one reason, and that's winning.

[southsider2k5]

Here's where KW has to be willing to make a mistake though. What happens if the market doesn't correct itself over the next 3-5 years? In that case, will the Sox let every FA go because they don't want to "overpay", even though overpaying is the norm? If there was one player who JR and company could take the chance on with what might be a bad contract, it's Buehrle. As someone on Comcast said last night, not only is he less of a risk on the field than most pitchers, but the Sox fans would forgive JR and KW in a heartbeat if Buehrle doesn't live up to his contract.

 

Just out of curiousity, how high should the Sox being willing to go in terms of years and dollars?

[Steff]

Oh? So if the Sox suck in 2010 because Pauly is (even) slower and old, and Mark is pitching like 2006 again because his arm is tired, fans will still come out to the park because KW and JR were nice enough to re-sign Mark for the fans? BS. This team draws well for one reason, and that's winning.

 

 

Which is evident by the bathroom lines!!!

[iamshack]

Just out of curiousity, how high should the Sox being willing to go in terms of years and dollars?

 

To me, honestly, I don't know how much sense it really makes to sign him. With the way things are starting to look, what sense does it make to keep him around? If he stays, it means he is making $15 million a year, thereby inhibiting the team's ability to sign other players, and we probably are around a .500 team. What's the point of having a $15 million player if your team is sitting at .500? The best thing to do is probably to rape another team towards the beginning of July (barring a run in the next few weeks) and building for the future.

[RibbieRubarb]

Which is evident by the bathroom lines!!!

 

In an odd way I miss the days when I didn't have to wait in line for everything and Me and Rob were the only guys in the UD.

 

What we sacrifice for what we love, eh?

[southsider2k5]

To me, honestly, I don't know how much sense it really makes to sign him. With the way things are starting to look, what sense does it make to keep him around? If he stays, it means he is making $15 million a year, thereby inhibiting the team's ability to sign other players, and we probably are around a .500 team. What's the point of having a $15 million player if your team is sitting at .500? The best thing to do is probably to rape another team towards the beginning of July (barring a run in the next few weeks) and building for the future.

 

Actually this has the makings of its own thread.

[Chisoxfn]

Untradeable contracts like the one they gave Contreras which makes him... untradeable?

I clearly don't think Conteras contract is as unmoveable as some of you all think it is. Freddy was abl eto get moved, Javier Vazquez was moved multiple times, Chan Ho Park, etc....you can bet your ass the club could move Contreras and get something if they wanted to (although it would be nice if he had a couple good starts).

[Steff]

Actually this has the makings of its own thread.

 

 

 

4 months too late...

[fathom]

The problem is that in this market Mark is going to get offered more than 5 years/75 million. The Sox can NOT cripple themselves and be allowed to be raped by the market. Are the fans going to be so forgiving when it's Mark and 8 A ball players taking the field next season, and possibly the next 3 after that?

And holy hell if, God forbid, something happens to his arm.

 

I've always said you offer 5/75 by the end of June, and if he says no, then you trade him. If the Sox are planning on going with a payroll in the 80 to 90 million range over the next few years, they're going to be a bad team. Let's face it....an 80 million dollar payroll isn't the same as it was a few years ago, as medicore pitchers are getting 10 million easily these days. All I know is that if we lose Buehrle and Garland, but keep Contreras and Vazquez, then KW better not have a job next year.

[WCSox]

The problem is that in this market Mark is going to get offered more than 5 years/75 million. The Sox can NOT cripple themselves and be allowed to be raped by the market. Are the fans going to be so forgiving when it's Mark and 8 A ball players taking the field next season, and possibly the next 3 after that?

And holy hell if, God forbid, something happens to his arm.

 

Agreed. Although 5/75 may be reasonable, that's where negotiations will BEGIN. You know that the Cardinals, Mets, Yankees, and Red Sox will push that price up significantly this winter.

 

And as Balta pointed out last week, the track record of teams offering marquee pitchers 5+ year deals and getting anywhere NEAR that value out of them is not good.

 

The fact that Kenny traded for two left-handed starters this winter (Danks and Gio) speaks volumes.

 

Oh? So if the Sox suck in 2010 because Pauly is (even) slower and old, and Mark is pitching like 2006 again because his arm is tired, fans will still come out to the park because KW and JR were nice enough to re-sign Mark for the fans? BS. This team draws well for one reason, and that's winning.

 

DING, DING, DING!

 

Anybody who has followed this team for any substantial period of time knows this.

[premo]

So let me get this straight, paying Vasquez 11M or so a season for 4 years is "cheap"?? But they have a problem signing a guy that has, with the exception of last year, really been a VERY good pitcher, one of the most consistent in the league, to a 5 year deal? That just really doesnt make sense at all to me. I really believe that whether we're rebuilding or not, the pitching staff should be built around Buehrle, Garland, Danks, and Jenks.

I've never really been "sad" when a player left a team. I mean, I was bummed to let Maggs and Frank go, but it was their time to go. But I don't see it being time for Buehrle to go anywhere. And I would honestly find it hard to watch a team that hails Contreras and Vasquez as their 1-2 starters. Sign him to a huge deal. He'll be what, 33 when the contract is up? He's not the type of pitcher that I see breaking down over the next 5 years.

Edited June 19, 2007 by premo

[Kalapse]

I clearly don't think Conteras contract is as unmoveable as some of you all think it is. Freddy was abl eto get moved, Javier Vazquez was moved multiple times, Chan Ho Park, etc....you can bet your ass the club could move Contreras and get something if they wanted to (although it would be nice if he had a couple good starts).

Jose is up to a 4.80 ERA, 1.45 WHIP and isn't striking anyone out. He's believed to be atleast over 40 years of age but no one really knows for sure, his stuff has deteriorated at a shocking rate since he's now throwing exclusively in the high 80's with no strikeout pitch that he can throw for a strike and he's guaranteed $20M over the next 2 seasons. If he doesn't finish this year off strong it could be REAL tough to move him this offseason without eating any of the contract.