Gregory Pratt Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:27 PM) Well, we can only pin so much on September and August stats, but I still find some solace in the fact that both Contreras and Floyd performed quite well come September and for Jose, August as well. And I still like the depth we have in having Gio and Egbert as other options... But at least we'll see. I know one thing, this is the thread I'll be digging up if somehow the White Sox go on a hot streak early in the season. And I will bring it up at a more relevant time than if we went on a "hot" streak to start the season -- say, the All-Star Break, or, perhaps, the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:37 PM) I would trade the Sox for the Tigers every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. The Tigers future is questionable. Right now, the Sox future is terrible. This is the type of thing I've said that you jumped all over me for, y'know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(whitesox61382 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:17 PM) However, you win championships with pitching and in most cases pitching that you develop. I think if you look at the staffs of World Series winners the last few seasons you'll see that most of those staff were acquired rather than developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(max power @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:35 PM) Don't forget rogers. Aging, injured last year. I expect this is his last year. I'm starting to wonder if I would trade the sox for the tigers. Though they have a potent offense, their starting rotation is scary weak. Everything about that says possible playoffs with an early exit. Sounds like the '06 and '07 Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:40 PM) Sounds like the '06 and '07 Yankees. And the 05 Yankees. And the 04 Yankees. And while I'm at it, the 03 and 05 Red Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:37 PM) I would trade the Sox for the Tigers every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. The Tigers future is questionable. Right now, the Sox future is terrible. Teams with s***ty pitching(1 good pitcher) aren't likely to win a 7 game series. I can see why their offense is attractive and how that makes their team attractive, but I don't see them winning a championship without acquiring something big in the rotation before the trade deadline. Now they don't have much to offer to do that. Its all too soon to say which team I'd bet on, especially when the sox(and the tigers to a lesser extent) have the luxury of making some more moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:31 PM) I really hope the rumor involving the Sox isn't ture because I want Fields to play third base. Santo, love the sig. "The Old Man and the Sea" Reference fits so well in reference to the "big fish" stories, it's almost scarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Santo, love the sig. "The Old Man and the Sea" Reference fits so well in reference to the "big fish" stories, it's almost scarry.I made it after seeing yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loltrain Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 So if the Tigers only have one good pitcher that means the White Sox have 0, right? The Tigers rotation certainly isn't spectacular, but with a healthy Bonderman it should certainly be at least league average, which with the offense will be plenty to make the playoffs (barring injury which admittedly is a weakness of the team) Once you get into the playoffs the idea that you have to have great pitching is just laughable, it's all a crap shoot relying on luck, Johan Santana could get shelled and Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras could turn into aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) I made it after seeing yours. FYI, my sig is also a carp which is a traditional bottom-feeder scavenger, like a GM that signs Darrin Erstad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(loltrain @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:46 PM) So if the Tigers only have one good pitcher that means the White Sox have 0, right? The Tigers rotation certainly isn't spectacular, but with a healthy Bonderman it should certainly be at least league average, which with the offense will be plenty to make the playoffs (barring injury which admittedly is a weakness of the team) Once you get into the playoffs the idea that you have to have great pitching is just laughable, it's all a crap shoot relying on luck, Johan Santana could get shelled and Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras could turn into aces. The sox have two, obviously, with two under and ERA of 4 and IP over 200 last year. That's obviously a simplistic way to look at it. You guys had 1 below league average. Edited December 5, 2007 by max power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(loltrain @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) So if the Tigers only have one good pitcher that means the White Sox have 0, right? The Tigers rotation certainly isn't spectacular, but with a healthy Bonderman it should certainly be at least league average, which with the offense will be plenty to make the playoffs (barring injury which admittedly is a weakness of the team) Once you get into the playoffs the idea that you have to have great pitching is just laughable, it's all a crap shoot relying on luck, Johan Santana could get shelled and Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras could turn into aces. Was Bonderman not healthy last year? I didn't read anything about health issues for him last year, just mainly issues with giving up runs. That rotation certainly has it in it to be well below league average. They also have it in them to be well above league average. Willis could act like he did in 04 and dominate, or he could act like he did in 07 and flounder even worse in the AL. The Bonderman of 06 could show up or the Bonderman of 07 could show up. Rogers is a year older and missed half last season, and Robertson is in his 40's too. And with Zumaya gone, their bullpen is back to being suspect, even if they go out and blow money on someone like Gagne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:52 PM) Nate Roberston 30. You are correct, sir. Anyway, he still has a career ERA of 4.60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(loltrain @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:46 PM) So if the Tigers only have one good pitcher that means the White Sox have 0, right? The Tigers rotation certainly isn't spectacular, but with a healthy Bonderman it should certainly be at least league average, which with the offense will be plenty to make the playoffs (barring injury which admittedly is a weakness of the team) Once you get into the playoffs the idea that you have to have great pitching is just laughable, it's all a crap shoot relying on luck, Johan Santana could get shelled and Jeff Weaver and Jose Contreras could turn into aces. So one guy below avrg and 4 (or more) above is going to be league average? I doubt it. Crap shoot? Every WS champ I can think of, for at least the past 7-8 years, probably more, had at least 2-3 pitchers pitching well below the league average, with two being the exception to the rule. I don't see who that will be for the 08 tigers right now, especially with their rather average BP. I'm convinced they still need to add some pitching before they are a contender. They still might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(max power @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:03 AM) So one guy below avrg and 4 (or more) above is going to be league average? I doubt it. Crap shoot? Every WS champ I can think of, for at least the past 7-8 years, probably more, had at least 2-3 pitchers pitching well below the league average, with two being the exception to the rule. I don't see who that will be for the 08 tigers right now, especially with their rather average BP. I'm convinced they still need to add some pitching before they are a contender. They still might. I think the 06 cardinals pretty much ruined baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(bmags @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:06 PM) I think the 06 cardinals pretty much ruined baseball. I think you mean the 06 tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 well yeah. But man, for anthony reyes and jeff weaver dominating. Ugh. What a terrible series. And brandon inge booting every ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(bmags @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:10 PM) well yeah. But man, for anthony reyes and jeff weaver dominating. Ugh. What a terrible series. And brandon inge booting every ball. Don't forget their E-1's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:37 PM) Don't forget their E-1's... Living by Detroit I got the impression that Tiger fans tasted the sweet life of winning, and so did Illitch, and they will fight and spend to keep that going, as seen by today's trade. The Tiggys arent goin anywhere, especially the way they draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) Having admitted he was making a more serious play for Florida Marlins third baseman Miguel Cabrera at the start of the winter meetings, Williams received a message from the Marlins during his daily chat with the media that the Detroit Tigers had upped the ante for Cabrera by also taking pitcher Dontrelle Willis off Florida's hands and sending back six prospects in return. The White Sox lost Florida third baseman Miguel Cabrera. Less than a minute after listening to that message and doing his best to shake off the standing eight-count, Williams got a call from Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye asking what happened. Dye wasn't the only one asking that question as the Sox' offseason continued to go terribly wrong from what was hoped for. free-agent outfielder Torii Hunter and Miguel Cabrera were supposed to be the ''big fish'' that Williams spoke about three weeks ago. Those were the names Dye and Mark Buehrle were given when they signed contract extensions midway through the 2007 season. I wonder what Dye said to him. WTF did I sign the extension for if you are going to continue to get punked by other GMs. Maybe Kenny should stop inviting the players to be part of the GM process. He asks Konerko and Dye for their input on player changes, and now this. Under the radar must be like parking the bus in front of the hotel and using bullhorns to get his message across. Edited December 5, 2007 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kageman129 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) The White Sox need to just completely rebuild. They lose out on Hunter, then Cabrera . . . The Twins, although unloading some guys, still better than the Sox, the Tiger DEFINTELY better than the Sox now, the Indians not getting any worse, even the Royals can't do much worse . . . Just let the kids play, I'd rather see kids play than a bunch of aging crappy players. I would like them to sign Rowand, have an outfield of Quentin, Rowand and Dye. Infield of Fields, Cabrera, Richar and Konerko. Trade Uribe and Crede for some bullpen help or back end rotation help and just call it an offseason. Screw signing Rowand even, just let Owens play. Throw in the towel and get ready for a losing season ahead of time. I love the White Sox, but I just don't see them getting any better at this point. Edited December 5, 2007 by kageman129 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 great KW is already playing the "its not about the superstars" card....lol predictable, i just thought it would take a bit longer than a few hours... part of me really thinks that florida needed a catcher in that deal...even though robello is nothing special...they insisted on mathis from the angels...it was pretty clear they wanted 1 stud position player, 1 stud pitcher, a catcher, and a few other arms....the angels i guess werent willing to give adenhart and kendrick and mathis.....i think the sox fell short in terms of offering the catcher and couldnt offer match the pitching prospect as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 We need more Grinders!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 "You try to do things that make sense," said Williams, speaking in general terms regarding Rowand. "I can't give you a dollar if I only have 50 cents. Some decisions are made awfully easy for you." When asked if he could dole out 50 cents over five years instead of four, Williams responded that the move depended on the player being talked about. When Rowand was loosely described, Williams added "I wouldn't count on it." what happened to the $75 over 5 years that was offered to Hunter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:38 AM) what happened to the $75 over 5 years that was offered to Hunter ? exactly my thoughts... what a joke!! Sorry KW we've accepted your excuses last year with the whole "Market Correction" crap. But if you offer Hunter that much money and then come back and say "im not going to give you a dollar if i only have 50 cents to offer" crap, you lose a TON of credibility. What a joke this offseason is turning out to be... we might as well re-sign Erstad and sign Eckstein at this point. . I love how Kenny thinks he can do what he did in the 2004 offseason again... That 2004 team going into 2005 didn't have as many holes.. all we needed was a couple of pen guys a leadoff hitter and 1 starter. The rest of the team was pretty much filled. . The team we have now has waaaaaaaaayyy too many holes... this team is going nowhere fast.. and even JD sees that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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