Jose Contreras Done For Year

[fathom]

We need pitching help a lot more than we need 6 outfielders.

 

Keep this in mind....we have 3 guys in PK, Thome, and Griffey Jr. that require a pinch runner anytime they're on in a late inning, close game.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Keep this in mind....we have 3 guys in PK, Thome, and Griffey Jr. that require a pinch runner anytime they're on in a late inning, close game.

True, but Anderson as a pinch runner over Wise >>>> no extra pitcher. When rosters expand Wise and/or Owens can come back up to fill that need.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[WilliamTell]

That was painful watching him fall down. I wish him the best and am very sad he won't be back this year, and maybe never again.

[greg775]

That is bad. Well he gave us a hell of lot in his career, so hope his recovery goes well.

 

Me too. Sad day. I think it is not a mean assumption to say his career is over. Gosh only knows how old the guy really is. He was a stud for the Sox, but he'll never pitch for us again if he's out til next year's All Star break.

The Trib is already talking about Poreda.

This may sound extremely dumb, especially from me who hated his performance, but should KW call up Richard and give him one start, for the simple reason he won't be nervous this time and show his true ability? Just asking. It'd be a one-game experiment obviously.

How old is Poreda? The Trib seems to think he's the guy.

[fathom]

Rumor is that Broadway will start on Thursday. If that's true, then shame on this organization.

[southsideirish71]

Rumor is that Broadway will start on Thursday. If that's true, then shame on this organization.

 

The twins bring up Liriano, and we counter with Felix Diaz.

 

 

 

 

[fathom]

The twins bring up Liriano, and we counter with Felix Diaz.

 

At least Diaz's numbers were worthy of a call-up. Broadway's numbers are worthy of a demotion.

[southsideirish71]

At least Diaz's numbers were worthy of a call-up. Broadway's numbers are worthy of a demotion.

 

I would rather see Poreda. His secondary stuff might not be there, but his fastball still is plus, and has sink. Thats better than a control guy who hasnt had control.

 

 

[claydude14]

Funny I saw a Liriano Vs. Broadway game at AAA in May, neither were good. Difference is one was a dominating pitcher who hadn't yet been switched back to his mechanics that make him good (but risk injury) (Liriano) and the other was supposed to be one of our top pitching prospects. Broadway didn't impress me at ALL that fateful day a few months ago... and Egbert got equally shelled the night after.

 

Noteworthy in the fact that these starts came against the Twins' AAA club my hometown Rochester Red Wings.

 

At least Cuddyer suffered a broken foot last night in a freak play running from 1st to 2nd. Got popped pretty good on a grounder as he was running.

[Wanne]

I don't think we'll see Egbert. Due to his experience last season, PROBABLY Broadway...although he would definitely be on a very short leash.

 

This is another area that the Masset trade kills us...he might have been our best back-up starter.

 

I don't know what they'll do...it's a little late in the season to stretch out Mike MacDougal and make him a starter again, but they have to consider everything.

 

Surprised nobody commented on caulfield's post here....because it's pretty spot on. Just what the hell has Griffey brought to this team besides the headache of where to bat him or sit him?!? Kenny rolled the dice to catch lightning in a bottle and lost. Masset probably would have looked pretty good right now. Still my vote goes to 1a. Poreda. 1b. Broadway (he did show some promise late last year). The thing that sticks in the back of my mind is when other teams bring up some no-name shmuck...and he friggin shuts out the Sox in their first MLB start. So it does happen. Kind of like my position about Caleb Hanie...GIVE THE DUDE A SHOT!

[beck72]

Surprised nobody commented on caulfield's post here....because it's pretty spot on. Just what the hell has Griffey brought to this team besides the headache of where to bat him or sit him?!? Kenny rolled the dice to catch lightning in a bottle and lost. Masset probably would have looked pretty good right now. Still my vote goes to 1a. Poreda. 1b. Broadway (he did show some promise late last year). The thing that sticks in the back of my mind is when other teams bring up some no-name shmuck...and he friggin shuts out the Sox in their first MLB start. So it does happen. Kind of like my position about Caleb Hanie...GIVE THE DUDE A SHOT!

Masset was horrible after his nice start. How many games would the sox have lost if they had stuck with him? The sox couldn't send him down to AAA where he belongs. Masset and Logan were simply awful and had no business pitching for a team in a playoff hunt.

 

As far as the rotation goes, Poreda may be capable, and have a good future, but throwing him in the mix during a pennant race...His makeup has to be off the charts to handle that kind of pressure, not to mention the ability to handle the possible failure.

 

Paul Byrd has thrown well in July and August. He's a better bet to give the sox 6, 7 innings than a guy who started the year in A ball [Poreda].Byrd throws strikes and isn't signed for 2009. As long as the sox don't have to give up much for Byrd, why not. If the sox go with Poreda or another minor leaguer, they are almost assured of taxing the bullpen. And the sox need to tread water until the sox can expand their rosters in Sept. Getting a vet who can get major leaguers out is the most likely route for helping the sox pitching stay afloat until reinforcements come.

[JPN366]

Rumor is that Broadway will start on Thursday. If that's true, then shame on this organization.

 

 

Possibly. Clayton Richard was added back to the Charlotte rotation, so somebody would have been bumped anyway. Broadway and Getz can go up, because the White Sox need another utility infielder, Horacio Ramirez can be activated and Wise can go back to Charlotte. Seems likely to me. Although Poreda is possible because Clevelan Santeliz was skipped over for his start in Winston Salem yesterday. He might be promoted to B'ham to take Poreda's spot.

Edited August 10, 2008 by JPN366

[shipps]

This just sucks,I really thought Count was going to get his act together and be a huge factor in this run for the playoffs.There is no other option out there that is better than a healthy Jose.We are totally screwed.

Edited August 10, 2008 by shipps

[beck72]

Someone like Egbert, Broadway, Childers or Rodriguez should come up from the minors to help the bullpen and someone else will come up to take Jose's place in the rotation for Thursday. The sox could then option Getz or Wise back to the minors to make room for the extra pitcher.

[Fingish]

Paul Byrd has thrown well in July and August. He's a better bet to give the sox 6, 7 innings than a guy who started the year in A ball [Poreda].Byrd throws strikes and isn't signed for 2009. As long as the sox don't have to give up much for Byrd, why not. If the sox go with Poreda or another minor leaguer, they are almost assured of taxing the bullpen. And the sox need to tread water until the sox can expand their rosters in Sept. Getting a vet who can get major leaguers out is the most likely route for helping the sox pitching stay afloat until reinforcements come.

 

By my count, whoever takes Jose's place, will make about 4 starts, if Paul Byrd was able to on average pitch 2 more innings per game than Poreda, that would be all of 8 innings over the course of the rest of the month that he would save the bullpen.

 

My thought being if a bullpen can't handle an extra eight innings over the course of 20 days, then you probably aren't making it to the playoffs anyways. So give me Poreda and his higher upside, rather than the known quantity in Byrd. Sure it's a gamble, but it seems to me that most teams don't do well in the playoffs without taking a chance on some of their kids coming up and producing in key roles, a la Bobby Jenks in '05.

 

I know that one of these days we'll call up a prospect who will floor us with his performance right out of the gate, why not let it be now, when we really need it?

 

[caulfield12]

By my count, whoever takes Jose's place, will make about 4 starts, if Paul Byrd was able to on average pitch 2 more innings per game than Poreda, that would be all of 8 innings over the course of the rest of the month that he would save the bullpen.

 

My thought being if a bullpen can't handle an extra eight innings over the course of 20 days, then you probably aren't making it to the playoffs anyways. So give me Poreda and his higher upside, rather than the known quantity in Byrd. Sure it's a gamble, but it seems to me that most teams don't do well in the playoffs without taking a chance on some of their kids coming up and producing in key roles, a la Bobby Jenks in '05.

 

I know that one of these days we'll call up a prospect who will floor us with his performance right out of the gate, why not let it be now, when we really need it?

 

Are you sure your math isn't off by a bit? It should be around 8-9 more starts that we have to cover for Contreras...that situation isn't changing in September, it's only becoming more magnified.

 

Yes, we'll have some additional bullpen help in September, but what can we realistically expect of MacDougal, Wasserman, Link, Rodriguez, etc.??? I don't think very much.

 

Those guys will be helpful to save the "A" relievers (Jenks, Thornton, Dotel and hopefully Linebrink) in blowout losses or mop up duty, but I don't think any of them can be put into tie or even down by 1-3 run situations in the heat of a pennant race.

 

 

 

[EvilJester99]

Sun-Times' Chris De Luca thinks Kenny will make a push for Jarrod Washburn... Chris De Luca wrote:

 

With few suitable in-house options, look for general manager Ken Williams to make a strong push for veteran left-hander Jarrod Washburn.

Washburn - a pitcher who was on the Sox’ radar before the latest Contreras injury - reportedly has cleared waivers. Washburn, who turns 34 on Wednesday, is 5-11 with a 4.76 ERA in 23 games with the Mariners, including 22 starts.

 

[Texsox]

Sun-Times' Chris De Luca thinks Kenny will make a push for Jarrod Washburn... Chris De Luca wrote:

 

With few suitable in-house options, look for general manager Ken Williams to make a strong push for veteran left-hander Jarrod Washburn.

Washburn - a pitcher who was on the Sox' radar before the latest Contreras injury - reportedly has cleared waivers. Washburn, who turns 34 on Wednesday, is 5-11 with a 4.76 ERA in 23 games with the Mariners, including 22 starts.

 

Yea!

[Countrysox2]

Yea!

 

 

Chris Getz and Broadway brought up

[caulfield12]

Yea!

 

 

$10.35 million contract for 2009, last year of the deal.

 

About the same as we were going to pay Jose.

 

Once again, another example of why it would be nice to have a farm system like the Twins...maybe they'll give us Bonser, lol.

 

In all seriousness, the Yankees wanted him after 2005...and they have the first claiming rights, as their record is below ours. With all of their pitching issues (see the recent Angels series, Kennedy and Hughes' disappointment, Joba's injury), I think they might take him first, and they have more options to make the deal work at the minor league level unfortunately.

 

Why would the M's want Fields if they already have Beltre? Unless we give up Poreda for Washburn, which would be a huge mistake, I don't think this gets done...unless the M's new management really just wants to dump his salary on someone else.

[Fingish]

Are you sure your math isn't off by a bit? It should be around 8-9 more starts that we have to cover for Contreras...that situation isn't changing in September, it's only becoming more magnified.

 

Yes, we'll have some additional bullpen help in September, but what can we realistically expect of MacDougal, Wasserman, Link, Rodriguez, etc.??? I don't think very much.

 

Those guys will be helpful to save the "A" relievers (Jenks, Thornton, Dotel and hopefully Linebrink) in blowout losses or mop up duty, but I don't think any of them can be put into tie or even down by 1-3 run situations in the heat of a pennant race.

 

My math was based on the previous poster saying that Byrd was a better alternative to get us to September, when we will be able to call up some degree of help for the bullpen, even if it's just picking up the mop-up situations in blowouts. It seemed that the reasoning was someone like Byrd will keep your bullpen from getting overtaxed before expanded rosters.

 

That puts the person who replaces Jose at making around 4 starts before the rosters are expanded. So the question of how deep a starter can get us isn't negated in September, but it certianly isn't magnified, there will be plenty of pitchers avaible to take the unimportant relief innings, leaving our core relief staff able to be rested and ready in the more important games.

 

The point was that going for a Byrd-like pitcher wasn't going to make a giant difference if your only concern was trying to save the bullpen a little bit, even over the two months, if you don't count September call-ups as having any value in saving our relief staff, you're then talking maybe 16 extra innings pitched over two months. If our staff can't handle that much extra load, they probably aren't going to be the guys to take us all the way to the World Series anyways.

 

I think we're already set in the inning-eater category, taking a shot on bringing up someone who could be better than a #5 starter seems to me to have a better risk/reward return on it, as the risk of over-taxing the bullpen at this stage of the season, based on the performance of 1 starter doesn't seem to be all that great, while the reward of (what appears to be Broadway) coming up and throwing lights out for 2 months is a chance to win it all.

[GoSox05]

I think Broadway is worth at least one start. He has been awful of late, but he looked good when he has pitched in the majors. That and his last name is cool.

[Milkman delivers]

It's unfortunate that this injury didn't happen before the trade deadline. We've been waiting seemingly forever for this guy to return, only to have him end his own season in the second inning of his first game back. That really f***s the White Sox over. I know it's not his fault, but thanks a lot, Jose. You could not have had worse timing if you planned it.

[Steve9347]

We need to sign Freddy Garcia.

[caulfield12]

My math was based on the previous poster saying that Byrd was a better alternative to get us to September, when we will be able to call up some degree of help for the bullpen, even if it's just picking up the mop-up situations in blowouts. It seemed that the reasoning was someone like Byrd will keep your bullpen from getting overtaxed before expanded rosters.

 

That puts the person who replaces Jose at making around 4 starts before the rosters are expanded. So the question of how deep a starter can get us isn't negated in September, but it certianly isn't magnified, there will be plenty of pitchers avaible to take the unimportant relief innings, leaving our core relief staff able to be rested and ready in the more important games.

 

The point was that going for a Byrd-like pitcher wasn't going to make a giant difference if your only concern was trying to save the bullpen a little bit, even over the two months, if you don't count September call-ups as having any value in saving our relief staff, you're then talking maybe 16 extra innings pitched over two months. If our staff can't handle that much extra load, they probably aren't going to be the guys to take us all the way to the World Series anyways.

 

I think we're already set in the inning-eater category, taking a shot on bringing up someone who could be better than a #5 starter seems to me to have a better risk/reward return on it, as the risk of over-taxing the bullpen at this stage of the season, based on the performance of 1 starter doesn't seem to be all that great, while the reward of (what appears to be Broadway) coming up and throwing lights out for 2 months is a chance to win it all.

 

Well, this is all predicated on how the Indians' GM feels about KW and the Sox.

 

We basically are at his mercy...if he asks for Fields/Poreda (I'm assuming they would already be claimed, at least Fields, not sure exactly how the PTBNL works) for someone like Byrd, then KW would be crazy to make that move. Obviously, we're negotiating from a position of weakness, and that's not a great strength of KW, it's unearthing hidden gems like Thornton, Loiaza, Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Marte, Quentin, Jenks, etc.

 

With KW's gunslinger mentality, it puts the whole organization at risk that he makes that final move to overreach and finally puts this organization into a 2-3 year rebuilding mode without even getting us to the playoffs (looks like Boston will be hard to beat for the Wild Card, too.)

Edited August 10, 2008 by caulfield12