AGon discussion, et. al.

[knightni]

Ok, but it's still a pick.

[Kalapse]

Ok, but it's still a pick.

You gladly surrender a mid-2nd round pick for Matt Holliday, this isn't Scott Linebrink or Orlando Cabrera we're talking about you're actually acquiring an elite talent, the major sticking point is that he's gonna want $20M+ per year over 6 years - something that's not really in the cards for the Sox at this point.

[witesoxfan]

You gladly surrender a mid-2nd round pick for Matt Holliday, this isn't Scott Linebrink or Orlando Cabrera we're talking about you're actually acquiring an elite talent, the major sticking point is that he's gonna want $20M+ per year over 6 years - something that's not really in the cards for the Sox at this point.

 

And, while Holliday is good, most of his numbers have really come from getting fat off of NL pitching and playing in a great hitter's park.

[Eminor3rd]

And, while Holliday is good, most of his numbers have really come from getting fat off of NL pitching and playing in a great hitter's park.

 

Peavy is what we got instead of Holliday. And I think we're better off that way.

[justBLAZE]

Peavy is what we got instead of Holliday. And I think we're better off that way.

 

Matt Holliday the OF?

[Eminor3rd]

Matt Holliday the OF?

 

Yeah, I meant that KW acquired Peavy with budget space that might otherwise have been used for Holliday. Had we not acquired Peavy, I have no doubt that we'd be in the hunt for Holliday or Bay.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Eminor3rd

[Kyyle23]

Yeah, I meant that KW acquired Peavy with budget space that might otherwise have been used for Holliday. Had we not acquired Peavy, I have no doubt that we'd be in the hunt for Holliday or Bay.

 

I doubt that very much. Boras doesnt come sniffing around the Sox front office with his high dollar pets

[Sox72]

I doubt that very much. Boras doesnt come sniffing around the Sox front office with his high dollar pets

 

I wouldn't want Kenny going after either of these guys. Their talents don't seem to justify the salaries that they're asking. While they ARE All-Star players, they are still somewhat a product of a weak free agent class.

[Eminor3rd]

I wouldn't want Kenny going after either of these guys. Their talents don't seem to justify the salaries that they're asking. While they ARE All-Star players, they are still somewhat a product of a weak free agent class.

 

I agree. That's what I meant by "I think we're better off" having spent the money on Peavy than saved it for Holliday.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Ken Rosenthal reports the Sox are in hot pursuit of Adrian Gonzalez.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Red Sox that is.

[southsider2k5]

Ken Rosenthal reports the Sox are in hot pursuit of Adrian Gonzalez.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Red Sox that is.

 

If they want him, they are in the drivers seat after the Lackey deal.

[Mattchoo]

Ken Rosenthal reports the Sox are in hot pursuit of Adrian Gonzalez.

 

 

The Red Sox that is.

 

Well that is depressing.... hopefully this is sparked because KW is in on the trade talks to.

 

 

Without looking into the PK trade to Angles for a prospect used by us, what would SD want from us that doesn't involve Beckham?

 

I would imagine they'd want Flowers and one of Danks or Mitchell, and then 2 more players at the least.

 

[fathom]

At this point, I absolutely don't want the Sox to acquire AGon. It would cost way too much with regards to prospects (our farm is thin enough as it is), and then he'd get a monster deal after two seasons. Let Boston get him...they have the money and prospects to make it happen and not have to turn the organization upside-down.

[NorthSideSox72]

At this point, I absolutely don't want the Sox to acquire AGon. It would cost way too much with regards to prospects (our farm is thin enough as it is), and then he'd get a monster deal after two seasons. Let Boston get him...they have the money and prospects to make it happen and not have to turn the organization upside-down.

I'd like the farm system to be strong too, but its plain old silly to not see that one of the reasons you want a strong farm, is for this sort of acquisition to be possible. I'll take two years of that guy over a handful of very good prospects almost any day, and I don't see any Sox propsects I wouldn't give up in the deal.

 

[chisox2334]

red sox can offer best package and im not suprised their leading the chase for him

[Wanne]

I'd like the farm system to be strong too, but its plain old silly to not see that one of the reasons you want a strong farm, is for this sort of acquisition to be possible. I'll take two years of that guy over a handful of very good prospects almost any day, and I don't see any Sox propsects I wouldn't give up in the deal.

 

^^^^^^^

This. I always thought that's why you wanted a strong farm system too...not just to plug in home grown prospects but use them to acquire established players and stars possibly. I honestly couldn't care less if Charlotte and Birmingham win their leagues if the big team is floundering.

[fathom]

I'd like the farm system to be strong too, but its plain old silly to not see that one of the reasons you want a strong farm, is for this sort of acquisition to be possible. I'll take two years of that guy over a handful of very good prospects almost any day, and I don't see any Sox propsects I wouldn't give up in the deal.

 

The reason is because we have maybe 4 or 5 good players in our farm system, and the rest is absolute junk. When you look at our roster, we have a handful of players that are likely on their way out in a year or two. Since we're never competitive in the FA market, there's going to have to be guys like Flowers and Viciedo that step into a starting role.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd like the farm system to be strong too, but its plain old silly to not see that one of the reasons you want a strong farm, is for this sort of acquisition to be possible. I'll take two years of that guy over a handful of very good prospects almost any day, and I don't see any Sox propsects I wouldn't give up in the deal.

 

Thing is it's not as black and white for a GM. GM's can't focus squarely on the current year or even the next year. They have to look to and plan ahead for 2012, 2013, ect, ect. The Peavy/Pena trades took a big chunk out of what was a very much improving system. You trade what's left for AGON, you could have potential problems down the road (or even for 2010). Especially considering our chances of signing him after '11 would be remote at best. Let's say you deal Flowers. Who's AJ's potential replacement? He's logged a ton of mileage over the years and he's no spring chicken. And he's obviously a FA after 2010. Let's say we deal Hudson. Who's our alternative if Freddy goes down? What if one of the big 4 goes down? We've got flat nothing left in the system starting pitching wise outside of Hudson. I think fathom's point was that there's a big difference between the Red Sox going balls out for AGON and the White Sox going balls out for AGON. I'm sure he couldn't care less about our minor league records. That's JPN and scenario's job.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Jordan4life

[YonderLaroche]

It would take a package around alexei, cq, beckham + Flowers, Hudson and more to get him. I doubt KW would trade any of the three and the top guys in the minors, but you never know.. boston would have to package bucholz, ellsbury, or pedroia and some top level minor league players.

Edited December 16, 2009 by b-Rye

[iamshack]

Accept it's not as black and white for a GM. GM's can't focus squarely on the current year or even the next year. They have to look to and plan ahead for 2012, 2013, ect, ect. The Peavy/Pena trades took a big chunk out of what was a very much improving system. You trade what's left for AGON, you could have potential problems down the road (or even for 2010). Especially considering our chances of signing him after '11 would be remote at best. Let's say you deal Flowers. Who's AJ's potential replacement? He's logged a ton of mileage over the years and he's no spring chicken. And he's obviously a FA after 2010. Let's say we deal Hudson. Who's our alternative if Freddy goes down? What if one of the big 4 goes down? We've got flat nothing left in the system starting pitching wise outside of Hudson. I think fathom's point was that there's a big difference between the Red Sox going balls out for AGON and the White Sox going balls out for AGON. I'm sure he couldn't care less about our minor league records. That's JPN and scenario's job.

This is a very solid post, J4L, but the part you're missing is that if you acquire AGon and win with him, that opens up other doors for improvement, mainly by the influx of funds generated by postseason appearances, a potential WS title, and increased season-ticket holders. KHP has mentioned this part of the equation numerous times, so I don't want to make it seem as though I thought it all out.

 

Obviously it is a risk, but the possibility does exist.

[chunk23]

red sox can offer best package and im not suprised their leading the chase for him

 

Mariners, Os, Rangers off the top of my head could offer better packages.

 

Hoyer is a doubled edged sword. He knows the intimate details of the Red Sox system, so he knows who is hype and who is for real. He can ravage their system. He won't give them a sweet heart deal. However, he can probably work well with the RS front office, making negotiations easier. Hoyer has to prove himself as a new GM and sell this move to the fans. Plus he doesn't want to be accused of collusion if he doesn't get enough back. Acquiring Gonzalez could be a pyrrhic victory for Boston.

[Jordan4life_2007]

This is a very solid post, J4L, but the part you're missing is that if you acquire AGon and win with him, that opens up other doors for improvement, mainly by the influx of funds generated by postseason appearances, a potential WS title, and increased season-ticket holders. KHP has mentioned this part of the equation numerous times, so I don't want to make it seem as though I thought it all out.

 

Obviously it is a risk, but the possibility does exist.

 

I agree with most of this. I'll never believe that will ever get into a bidding war for elite free agents. Albert Belle was the last one almost 15 years ago. Like you said, it's a risk. I was just trying to expand on what fathom was saying. And personally, I think Tyler Flowers should be considered an untouchable. Not because I think he's THAT good. But AJ 's got one year left on his deal. And the days of Josh Paul, Mark Johnson, Jamie Burke and Sandy Alomar Jr. did serious psychological damage to me that I still have yet to recover from.

[Melissa1334]

I agree with most of this. I'll never believe that will ever get into a bidding war for elite free agents. Albert Belle was the last one almost 15 years ago. Like you said, it's a risk. I was just trying to expand on what fathom was saying. And personally, I think Tyler Flowers should be considered an untouchable. Not because I think he's THAT good. But AJ 's got one year left on his deal. And the days of Josh Paul, Mark Johnson, Jamie Burke and Sandy Alomar Jr. did serious psychological damage to me that I still have yet to recover from.

that might be one of the reasons why kenny might not be going after someone like agon i think, because even if we have the money, the sox never go past 5 yrs and super star players nowadays want 8 years

[EvilJester99]

Geez the Sawks are as bad as the Yanks... trying to get everyone.

[chisoxfan09]

This is a very solid post, J4L, but the part you're missing is that if you acquire AGon and win with him, that opens up other doors for improvement, mainly by the influx of funds generated by postseason appearances, a potential WS title, and increased season-ticket holders. KHP has mentioned this part of the equation numerous times, so I don't want to make it seem as though I thought it all out.

 

Obviously it is a risk, but the possibility does exist.

 

Me likey dis thinkin mucho!!!

 

:headbang