Unload...

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It's true that prospects fail often but the idea that you should trade them while their "value is high" is pretty ludicrous.

 

Please explain, because this doesn't make sense to me at all. Why is it wrong to trade an unproven commodity at high value?

 

What would you expect in return for him, or a package based around him, anyways?

 

A proven MLB player.

 

If it is obvious to you that he is going to fail, don't you think it might have occurred to 29 General Managers of the MLB as well?

 

Well, lots of things occur in the minds of the 30 GMs in baseball. However, things like market size and payroll play big parts in what becomes reality. Lots of teams *have* to deal with unproven players, hoping they turn out, simply because they cannot afford to pay the proven ones. That's why, when you're a team like the Sox and you can afford to pay the proven players, you do so. Trade the guys who likely will not pan out for players who already have. It's what Kenny Williams has done his entire career and it's why people in our organization have rings.

 

The fact that you still think they would give up worthwhile players in return for a guy who could bust just indicates why we shouldnt deal him - he might bust, but if he doesn't he provides a boatload of cheap talent for 6 years.

 

Certain teams simply feel like they *have* to trade productive veteran players for cost concerns. In return they ask for prospects, hoping that at least one of the prospects will turn out. This usually doesn't work out all that well, and moves like the Bartolo-to-Montreal and Tex-to-Atlanta deals are the rare exceptions, not the rules.

 

Kenny should shop Flowers, D2, all these guys, and look to get proven pieces that will help now and in the future. As far as what is out there we can only speculate at this point.

 

Edit: for your last sentence, consider the following names: Abbott, Liefer, Johnson, Anderson, Fields, Rauch, Webster, Borchard, Reed, Young.... and it just goes on. Just because a player *could* do something doesn't mean you should bet on him doing it. Kenny hasn't exactly gotten his ass kicked in trades over the years.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[SoxAce]

Look at what Flowers does well and look at what he doesn't do well. Then consider the odds, and consider how many great prospects fail all the time, especially at the catching position. You ask me to defend my claim, and I'm just making a prediction. You can look at our own track record if you like. If you think Flowers will end up a good MLB player then you are the one going out on a limb. We'll see in time, but personally I hope we trade him while his value is still high.

 

I'll bet you a million dollars that Flowers can put up a better OBP and OPS than A.J. (minus batting average) Which shouldn't be hard since you owe me about 20 million anyways over the years. In fact.. in a brief stint last year Flowers in 16 ABs had 3 BBs (.350 OBP) A.J. only has 6 BBs in 110 ABs this season. A.J. is a solid player and his I.Q is next to none, but if Flowers can't put up a .284-.325-.424-.749 numbers in a season (which are A.J.'s career numbers), then he should be a bust.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SoxAce

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'll bet you a million dollars that Flowers can put up a better OBP and OPS than A.J. (minus batting average) Which shouldn't be hard since you owe me about 20 million anyways over the years. In fact.. in a brief stint last year Flowers in 16 ABs had 3 BBs (.350 OBP) A.J. only has 6 BBs in 110 ABs this season. A.J. is a solid player and his I.Q is next to none, but if Flowers can't put up a .284-.325-.424-.749 numbers in a season (which are A.J.'s career numbers), then he should be a bust.

You ain't my f***in pimp you expletively expletivie expletive!!!!! I owe you money?!?! Put down the crack pipe. As far as OPS, I'll take whatever your bet is. Putting up that line in the Major Leagues isn't some walk in the park. By good I mean a good starting catcher. And IMO the odds are against Tyroid. BTW I don't know why you always think I'm wrong and you're right, you're always the one who is wrong. You're more wrong than Hawk in a thong and this is going to prove it. But you won't remember. After Flowers busts you'll be talking about how you were right a year from now.

[Milkman delivers]

Its not even close to too late in the season for this team. We arent 20 games back and we should be. If KW can deal for a bat of some kind or if Q and Becks wake up, this is an entirely different team. We arent even out of April and most of you have given up, thats pretty weak.

 

Na, just 8.5 and in fourth place. Sorry for being weak.

[SoxAce]

You ain't my f***in pimp you expletively expletivie expletive!!!!! I owe you money?!?! Put down the crack pipe. As far as OPS, I'll take whatever your bet is. Putting up that line in the Major Leagues isn't some walk in the park. By good I mean a good starting catcher. And IMO the odds are against Tyroid. BTW I don't know why you always think I'm wrong and you're right, you're always the one who is wrong. You're more wrong than Hawk in a thong and this is going to prove it. But you won't remember. After Flowers busts you'll be talking about how you were right a year from now.

 

Haha, you do what you always do. b**** and moan, drop a few expletive bombs to a reply from another poster, then when (or IF) the poster is right you don't show up for a month or two, then show up again, b**** and moan, drop a few expletive bombs to a reply from another poster, and when (or IF) the poster is right, don't show up for another month or two. I honestly don't know if that is by accident or if that is planned, but it is really quite impressive. BTW, I am yo pimp yo.. whateva whateva, I do what i want!

 

[daggins]

Please explain, because this doesn't make sense to me at all. Why is it wrong to trade an unproven commodity at high value?

 

Because it isn't a smart way to run a business? Cost control is an important part of every major league team, and the really good ones are able to develop talent internally while acquiring major league vets to complement a young, talented core. If you want to say that Sox prospects tend to fail more than other teams, that's fine, and it may be true, but that says some pretty awful things about the way this team is run and points toward needing major restructuring.

 

 

A proven MLB player.

 

I think you'll find that the returns for players with question marks, especially MAJOR RED FLAG question marks like Danks, are minimal. D2 could maybe net us a bench player or middle reliever, and not a particularly good one. Flowers could get a marginal MLB starter. Meanwhile, Flowers himself could become an All-Star.

 

Well, lots of things occur in the minds of the 30 GMs in baseball. However, things like market size and payroll play big parts in what becomes reality. Lots of teams *have* to deal with unproven players, hoping they turn out, simply because they cannot afford to pay the proven ones. That's why, when you're a team like the Sox and you can afford to pay the proven players, you do so. Trade the guys who likely will not pan out for players who already have. It's what Kenny Williams has done his entire career and it's why people in our organization have rings.

 

Payroll is a major issue for this team, because despite being in a large market, it has lost the lions share of it to the crosstown rivals. The Sox are, in essence, a mid market team stuck in a large market city. They have attendance issues every year, even when they win, and while they had some wiggle room coming in to this season, there was a definite limit to what they would spend. As to Kenny's MO, I think we're starting to see the logical consequence of his actions - Marginal major league talent, very thin minor league talent, and 100 mil in payroll.

 

Certain teams simply feel like they *have* to trade productive veteran players for cost concerns. In return they ask for prospects, hoping that at least one of the prospects will turn out. This usually doesn't work out all that well, and moves like the Bartolo-to-Montreal and Tex-to-Atlanta deals are the rare exceptions, not the rules.

 

Kenny should shop Flowers, D2, all these guys, and look to get proven pieces that will help now and in the future. As far as what is out there we can only speculate at this point.

 

Certain teams DO have to trade vets for prospects. This includes small and mid market teams and teams without a lot of payroll flexibility. The Sox fit into the second category right now because of the Rios and Peavy pickups. They can make those moves work for them but if they want to maintain payroll or, god forbid, have to trim payroll because of poor attendance, they are going to have to do something. That means trading vets, or non tendering underachievers and replacing them with average guys. This team doesn't need average players, they need good players, but they don't have the money to sign them nor the minor league talent to trade for them. Trading vets for more possible pieces, at least, makes a lot of sense for this team. Otherwise they are getting into Astros country.

Edited May 18, 2010 by daggins

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

--Because it isn't a smart way to run a business? Cost control is an important part of every major league team, and the really good ones are able to develop talent internally while acquiring major league vets to complement a young, talented core. If you want to say that Sox prospects tend to fail more than other teams, that's fine, and it may be true, but that says some pretty awful things about the way this team is run and points toward needing major restructuring.--

 

It's easy to talk about developing players internally, but look at how long that takes and how much that costs. We don't spend that kind of money on the draft or through international free agency, so we can't be like Boston. And we don't lose over and over so we can't be like the Rays or maybe the future Orioles. We can be better than we have been, but coming up with Hudson and Beckham in one draft is already about as good as you can expect to be. So the need for a major restructuring might be a bit overstated, but I've always b****ed about the way we allocate resources in terms of the farm and the bench. We always seem to spend too much on the bench and too little on the farm, and I've had those gripes for a long time.

 

--I think you'll find that the returns for players with question marks, especially MAJOR RED FLAG question marks like Danks, are minimal. D2 could maybe net us a bench player or middle reliever, and not a particularly good one. Flowers could get a marginal MLB starter. Meanwhile, Flowers himself could become an All-Star.--

 

I disagree 100%. I personally am not in love with either of those guys but realistically, prospects of that level bring good returns. Teams that are more or less forced to trade veterans don't have a ton of leverage and usually the returns for the veterans look a bit underwhelming. I definitely think we could get a pretty decent player for D2 and a pretty awesome player for Flowers. Also, while Flowers *could* become an All-Star, he also *could* become an absolute nobody.

 

--Payroll is a major issue for this team, because despite being in a large market, it has lost the lions share of it to the crosstown rivals. The Sox are, in essence, a mid market team stuck in a large market city. They have attendance issues every year, even when they win, and while they had some wiggle room coming in to this season, there was a definite limit to what they would spend. As to Kenny's MO, I think we're starting to see the logical consequence of his actions - Marginal major league talent, very thin minor league talent, and 100 mil in payroll.--

 

Disagree again here. The Sox had more money than they let on and we didn't know this until the Damon negotiations. The Sox are in the position they are in now because Kenny Williams listened to Ozzie and neglected the offense. This was a moronic thing to do and now they are paying for it.

 

The idea that they lost money to the Cubs is nuts. The Sox fans are there, they just don't want to show up in droves to see the s***ty NL-style offense that everyone with a brain knew would fail squander decent-to-strong pitching performances, nor do they want to see Mark Teahen let everything get by, etc. They want to see a winning baseball team, and I think Sox fans by and large are disappointed (as they should be) with Kenny Williams and his absolute failure of an offseason. I absolutely do not see this as a dire situation, and I don't think it means we're a small market team. I think Kenny needs to put a f***ing winner out there and then the fans will show up. Make an effort at least.

 

Kenny's actions outside of this offseason though? Let's see... where did he go wrong? It's easy to say he traded the farm and now it's bare, but where are all these great players he gave up? The only deal that really has hurt so far is the first Swisher deal and even that one wasn't all that bad, all things considered. We gave up solid and potentially solid players, but no All-Stars, no franchise cornerstones. The problems are with the minor league situation, everything from s***ty draft budgets to poor scouting to Dave Wilder to lack of a presence in countries like Venezuela, and so on. There's only so much Kenny can do.

 

--Certain teams DO have to trade vets for prospects. This includes small and mid market teams and teams without a lot of payroll flexibility. The Sox fit into the second category right now because of the Rios and Peavy pickups. They can make those moves work for them but if they want to maintain payroll or, god forbid, have to trim payroll because of poor attendance, they are going to have to do something. That means trading vets, or non tendering underachievers and replacing them with average guys. This team doesn't need average players, they need good players, but they don't have the money to sign them nor the minor league talent to trade for them. Trading vets for more possible pieces, at least, makes a lot of sense for this team. Otherwise they are getting into Astros country.--

 

Possible pieces are pieces we have to play - and suck with - while we figure out whether or not we want to keep playing them. Sox fans were thrilled in 2005 because we brought in a bunch of veterans to replace all those "possible pieces" we had been sucking with in the past. Good God were fans excited to see Ben Davis and Willie Harris replaced! These possible pieces usually suck pretty hard.

 

Astros territory? Dude, look at our f***ing pitching staff. Seriously, look at it. Just do that. It's sick. If there's any possible way to get to the playoffs we could run the f***ing table. Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks in a row with Big Balls Freddy Garcia in the bullpen as insurance? Have you seen the kind of dogs*** other teams run out there in the playoffs? Kenny needs to get off his ass and get a bat. Then we'll see what happens. IMO we need to try to win because that's the best cure, winning. Blowing up the ship and losing just makes it tougher to win. And as for the money part of it, I mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread, but the Sox were bulls***ting all the way. They had the money to fix the offense but they listened to Ozzie's moronic opinions and opted against it, and now they're going to cry poor? f*** them.

[Jordan4life_2007]

--Because it isn't a smart way to run a business? Cost control is an important part of every major league team, and the really good ones are able to develop talent internally while acquiring major league vets to complement a young, talented core. If you want to say that Sox prospects tend to fail more than other teams, that's fine, and it may be true, but that says some pretty awful things about the way this team is run and points toward needing major restructuring.--

 

It's easy to talk about developing players internally, but look at how long that takes and how much that costs. We don't spend that kind of money on the draft or through international free agency, so we can't be like Boston. And we don't lose over and over so we can't be like the Rays or maybe the future Orioles. We can be better than we have been, but coming up with Hudson and Beckham in one draft is already about as good as you can expect to be. So the need for a major restructuring might be a bit overstated, but I've always b****ed about the way we allocate resources in terms of the farm and the bench. We always seem to spend too much on the bench and too little on the farm, and I've had those gripes for a long time.

 

--I think you'll find that the returns for players with question marks, especially MAJOR RED FLAG question marks like Danks, are minimal. D2 could maybe net us a bench player or middle reliever, and not a particularly good one. Flowers could get a marginal MLB starter. Meanwhile, Flowers himself could become an All-Star.--

 

I disagree 100%. I personally am not in love with either of those guys but realistically, prospects of that level bring good returns. Teams that are more or less forced to trade veterans don't have a ton of leverage and usually the returns for the veterans look a bit underwhelming. I definitely think we could get a pretty decent player for D2 and a pretty awesome player for Flowers. Also, while Flowers *could* become an All-Star, he also *could* become an absolute nobody.

 

--Payroll is a major issue for this team, because despite being in a large market, it has lost the lions share of it to the crosstown rivals. The Sox are, in essence, a mid market team stuck in a large market city. They have attendance issues every year, even when they win, and while they had some wiggle room coming in to this season, there was a definite limit to what they would spend. As to Kenny's MO, I think we're starting to see the logical consequence of his actions - Marginal major league talent, very thin minor league talent, and 100 mil in payroll.--

 

Disagree again here. The Sox had more money than they let on and we didn't know this until the Damon negotiations. The Sox are in the position they are in now because Kenny Williams listened to Ozzie and neglected the offense. This was a moronic thing to do and now they are paying for it.

 

The idea that they lost money to the Cubs is nuts. The Sox fans are there, they just don't want to show up in droves to see the s***ty NL-style offense that everyone with a brain knew would fail squander decent-to-strong pitching performances, nor do they want to see Mark Teahen let everything get by, etc. They want to see a winning baseball team, and I think Sox fans by and large are disappointed (as they should be) with Kenny Williams and his absolute failure of an offseason. I absolutely do not see this as a dire situation, and I don't think it means we're a small market team. I think Kenny needs to put a f***ing winner out there and then the fans will show up. Make an effort at least.

 

Kenny's actions outside of this offseason though? Let's see... where did he go wrong? It's easy to say he traded the farm and now it's bare, but where are all these great players he gave up? The only deal that really has hurt so far is the first Swisher deal and even that one wasn't all that bad, all things considered. We gave up solid and potentially solid players, but no All-Stars, no franchise cornerstones. The problems are with the minor league situation, everything from s***ty draft budgets to poor scouting to Dave Wilder to lack of a presence in countries like Venezuela, and so on. There's only so much Kenny can do.

 

--Certain teams DO have to trade vets for prospects. This includes small and mid market teams and teams without a lot of payroll flexibility. The Sox fit into the second category right now because of the Rios and Peavy pickups. They can make those moves work for them but if they want to maintain payroll or, god forbid, have to trim payroll because of poor attendance, they are going to have to do something. That means trading vets, or non tendering underachievers and replacing them with average guys. This team doesn't need average players, they need good players, but they don't have the money to sign them nor the minor league talent to trade for them. Trading vets for more possible pieces, at least, makes a lot of sense for this team. Otherwise they are getting into Astros country.--

 

Possible pieces are pieces we have to play - and suck with - while we figure out whether or not we want to keep playing them. Sox fans were thrilled in 2005 because we brought in a bunch of veterans to replace all those "possible pieces" we had been sucking with in the past. Good God were fans excited to see Ben Davis and Willie Harris replaced! These possible pieces usually suck pretty hard.

 

Astros territory? Dude, look at our f***ing pitching staff. Seriously, look at it. Just do that. It's sick. If there's any possible way to get to the playoffs we could run the f***ing table. Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks in a row with Big Balls Freddy Garcia in the bullpen as insurance? Have you seen the kind of dogs*** other teams run out there in the playoffs? Kenny needs to get off his ass and get a bat. Then we'll see what happens. IMO we need to try to win because that's the best cure, winning. Blowing up the ship and losing just makes it tougher to win. And as for the money part of it, I mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread, but the Sox were bulls***ting all the way. They had the money to fix the offense but they listened to Ozzie's moronic opinions and opted against it, and now they're going to cry poor? f*** them.

 

You just put caulfield to shame. Do you really think anybody is going to read this?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You just put caulfield to shame. Do you really think anybody is going to read this?

1. You did...

 

2. What do you have against Caulfield? He's a far better poster than you are.

[Jordan4life_2007]

1. You did...

 

2. What do you have against Caulfield? He's a far better poster than you are.

 

You're out of your mind if you think I read any of that slop. And I don't have anything against him. But I'll definitely go slit one of my wrists now that you've deemed him a better poster than me. No coming back from that.

[greg775]

The lineups he's been putting out there are his fault, he's also taken responsbility for the DH fiasco.

 

You guys that want Ozzie fired just kill me.

What would that gain? Why would you want the guy who led us to the single greatest moment likely in your lives (as a fan), be fired? You think he's gotten dumber since '05?

He's going to be a good to great manager for 20 more years.

Why the f*** do you want this colorful, fun loving guy in another uniform? This guy bleeds White Sox black.

You act like he's f***ing Bevington?

He's Ozzie! The face of our franchise. Get him some talent. If he wants Juan Pierre, we need a strong GM to say, 'f*** you Ozzie; you manage the guys I give you.'

If he wants mythical Ozzieball players, we need a GM to tell him, "You did mighty well with home run hitters in 05. You are getting home run hitters for this ballpark. Manufacture runs any way you can, but here's what I'm giving you. Deal with it."

 

Who in the hell do you want to replace Ozzie?? I repeat give me some names. Ozzie rocks!

Edited May 18, 2010 by greg775

[scenario]

Guys... good baseball discussions... but lay off taking shots at each other.

 

 

[greg775]

You just put caulfield to shame. Do you really think anybody is going to read this?

 

I read it out of respect and I might learn something. It was long, but he's a good poster as you are.

[zeke bonura is the GOAT]

You guys that want Ozzie fired just kill me.

What would that gain? Why would you want the guy who led us to the single greatest moment likely in your lives (as a fan), be fired? You think he's gotten dumber since '05?

He's going to be a good to great manager for 20 more years.

Why the f*** do you want this colorful, fun loving guy in another uniform? This guy bleeds White Sox black.

You act like he's f***ing Bevington?

He's Ozzie! The face of our franchise. Get him some talent. If he wants Juan Pierre, we need a strong GM to say, 'f*** you Ozzie; you manage the guys I give you.'

If he wants mythical Ozzieball players, we need a GM to tell him, "You did mighty well with home run hitters in 05. You are getting home run hitters for this ballpark. Manufacture runs any way you can, but here's what I'm giving you. Deal with it."

 

Who in the hell do you want to replace Ozzie?? I repeat give me some names. Ozzie rocks!

If you honestly think 2005 was because of Ozzie... Jesus... It wasn't because of him that basically every player on the roster had career years and played out of their mind. All the chips went our way. We got lucky with the performances of our players.

 

 

Ozzie is absolutely horrible and putting together lineups. He has far too much influence on who gets placed on the roster (blame can be put on him and kenny for this). He DH's Omar f***ing Vizquel. That should show you how intelligent he is when it comes to baseball. He is just stubborn as hell. He is the one who had a huge problem with Swisher and benched him for DeWayne Wise.

 

Care to give some solid justification on why he should be the manager? I feel that all I'm going to hear is "2005 2005 2005".

[hogan873]

--Astros territory? Dude, look at our f***ing pitching staff. Seriously, look at it. Just do that. It's sick. If there's any possible way to get to the playoffs we could run the f***ing table. Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks in a row with Big Balls Freddy Garcia in the bullpen as insurance? Have you seen the kind of dogs*** other teams run out there in the playoffs? Kenny needs to get off his ass and get a bat. Then we'll see what happens. IMO we need to try to win because that's the best cure, winning. Blowing up the ship and losing just makes it tougher to win. And as for the money part of it, I mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread, but the Sox were bulls***ting all the way. They had the money to fix the offense but they listened to Ozzie's moronic opinions and opted against it, and now they're going to cry poor? f*** them.

First of all, good post and good discussion. On paper, I agree with you about out pitching staff. It should be one of the best, if not the best, in baseball. Unfortunately it hasn't played out that way...yet. Garcia has been a very pleasing surprise, but Buehrle and Floyd have been surprising for other not so good reasons. But you're right about one thing for sure, the offense has been atrocious. Even when the pitchers have given up 4 or 5 runs, the offense had plenty of chances to come back and win the game. With a lineup consisting of Vizquel, Kotsay, and the slumping Teahen, AJ, and Alexei, however, it's not hard to see why we're not winning games. The acquisition of a bat and the DFAing of Vizquel and Kotsay could vastly improve this team.

 

I still think that if KW made a move to improve the team, it could bolster the rest of the team and players like AJ, Teahen, Alexei, and Quentin might come around. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the players are feeling like us fans are and wondering what the hell is going on. Hell, even Vizquel was wondering what the hell Ozzie was doing by playing him as DH!

 

Long story short (too late, I know), I think getting a big bat would help immensely, but I don't see it happening. There will be changes, and Beckham may go down to AAA for a stint or AJ might be traded or Kotsay might be DFA'd, but I'd bet the cash in my pocket that KW will not make any significant move to improve this team for 2010...and I wouldn't blame him.

[hogan873]

So yesterday in the game thread there were whisperings of changes coming today or tomorrow. Anyone know anything? I have a feeling Beckham might be sent down...I just hope that doesn't mean Vizquel gets more starts. But of course then the option is Nix.

[Chisoxfn]

So yesterday in the game thread there were whisperings of changes coming today or tomorrow. Anyone know anything? I have a feeling Beckham might be sent down...I just hope that doesn't mean Vizquel gets more starts. But of course then the option is Nix.

The Trib had an article saying Beckham wouldn't be send down. Personally I'd call Lucy up and let him start a few games, but thats just me.

[Balta1701]

So yesterday in the game thread there were whisperings of changes coming today or tomorrow. Anyone know anything? I have a feeling Beckham might be sent down...I just hope that doesn't mean Vizquel gets more starts. But of course then the option is Nix.

I don't think there's anything to those whispers, the timing doesn't make sense. If you were going to send Beckham down, why start off with the supposed 2 day benching rather than just sending him down? It's too early to make sellers' deals because you don't want to call up anyone (i.e. Flowers) until after June 1 to save the arbitration year.

[hogan873]

I don't think there's anything to those whispers, the timing doesn't make sense. If you were going to send Beckham down, why start off with the supposed 2 day benching rather than just sending him down? It's too early to make sellers' deals because you don't want to call up anyone (i.e. Flowers) until after June 1 to save the arbitration year.

Good info, thanks. I suppose a lot of the whispers we may hear are wishful thinking. At least the whispers of change. It's a very frustrating time to be a White Sox fan right now.

[Balta1701]

Good info, thanks. I suppose a lot of the whispers we may hear are wishful thinking. At least the whispers of change. It's a very frustrating time to be a White Sox fan right now.

KW originally said "memorial day" a few weeks back when he was asked about when he'd start seriously considering making changes. Memorial Day is May 31. June 1 is the "super 2" deadline, so that's the day every team out of a race waits to call up prospects for. Strasbourg will come up shortly after that date. AJ's 10/5 trade-veto rights start on June 13th. So....there's about a 1.75 week window there between June 1 and June 13th that, if this team is 10 games back, I think the selling starts. But until then, everything else is setting the ground rules.

 

It'd be foolish to let AJ get 10/5 rights if you're 10 games back and you have someone who'd be willing to take on the last $4.5 million on his contract.

[balfanman]

I read it out of respect and I might learn something. It was long, but he's a good poster as you are.

 

I read it too. I like KHP & Caulfield as posters, their posts are long but usually well thought out and informative, they at least make you think.

 

I can definitely do without the argueing and name calling. Jeesh folks, everyone has their opinion. Can we just discuss things peaceably and learn from others. No one here knows everything but some come off like "know it alls" and everyone else is foolish for having a differing opinion.

 

As always, JMHOpinion.

Edited May 18, 2010 by balfanman

[South Side Fireworks Man]

The board is going nuts with this trade everyone crap. Anyone who believes Tyler Flowers will as good as AJ Pierzynski has his head in the clouds, and that's the best case scenario. Anyone who believes Buerhle can/will be replaced is even loonier. We have been playing like crap because KW listened to his psycho manager and decided to have an offseason with his head stuck down a toilet. Fix the problems and suddenly we're a better team. Unloading vets for a bunch of prospects is not a smart idea and it just makes us worse. You prospect lovers need to wake up and realize that most of the players out there you're salivating over aren't going to make it at all. The value of an AJ Pierzynski in ****real life***** on the baseball field is a thousand times greater than that of Tyroid Flowers.

 

It's one thing to talk about selling high on someone like Freddy or Putz, or even the resurgent Andruw Jones, or dumping the future non-tender candidate Bobby Jenks, but the idea of dumping guys like Mark and AJ is nuts. And I'm not even going to mention dealing names like Gavin and Johnny Danks because that is just waaaay too stupid to even respond to. Anyone who thinks it would be a good idea to trade those guys is off his/her f***ing rocker and needs to abandon the season right now before he/she ends up going on an angry, stupid rampage.

 

PS the saving money argument is pretty much null and void at this point considering the Sox have lied all offseason about what they had to spend. They bulls***ted their way through the DH/lefty bat discussions saying they were broke and then found Damon's offer apparently hanging on the money tree. Bulls***. The Sox aren't broke. The Sox made their own bed and now they have to sleep in it. The Sox had the seeds for a great f***ing 2010 ballclub last September and then one of the better General Managers in baseball suddenly forgot what his f***ing job was. The Sox pissed away the brilliant investments that were Jake Peavy and Alex Rios and now they have to deal with it. f*** this "saving money" s*** because you know it's a bunch of crap if you paid attention over the offseason. Hopefully the Sox wake up and get back to being a smart baseball team and Kenny realizes that he plays second fiddle ***to absolutely no one other than ownership**** and then takes this team back. I do trust in Kenny and have for a long time, but the dumbest move he has ever made in his entire career happened this offseason, and it was him allowing a manager too much input. He f***ing knew he needed offense and he let Ozzie talk him out of it. And no one is to blame for that other than Kenny. It's his fault, now he needs to fix it, and he needs to do it by coming up with a couple good players to fill a couple big holes, not blowing up a ballclub that has most of its necessary pieces in place.

 

PS I'm still hoping I'm wrong on Teahen and Pierre, and I'll continue to rag on those acquisitions until they prove they don't suck. But they do, so whatever. I hope to God Jim Hendry is looking for a couple more s***ty ballplayers to give a lot of money to, because if he is, we've got a few he can have.

Great post, and I especially agree about AJ and Flowers.

[fathom]

What's all these intangibles that AJP provides? I used to be a huge fan of his hustle, aggressiveness, etc. Now, he's basically just a singles hitter who can't throw and struggles blocking pitches in the dirt. Also, it's not like he's helping our pitchers overachieve with his pitch selection. AJP is a solid player, but I don't think it will kill the organization to get some new blood behind the plate.

[BigSqwert]

What's all these intangibles that AJP provides? I used to be a huge fan of his hustle, aggressiveness, etc. Now, he's basically just a singles hitter who can't throw and struggles blocking pitches in the dirt. Also, it's not like he's helping our pitchers overachieve with his pitch selection. AJP is a solid player, but I don't think it will kill the organization to get some new blood behind the plate.

He seems like the kind of guy that gives a little extra when things are going really well for a team and dogs it a bit otherwise.

[fathom]

He seems like the kind of guy that gives a little extra when things are going really well for a team and dogs it a bit otherwise.

 

Absolutely, and it even seems that way from inning to inning.