Bullpen '11

[Balta1701]

The Royals are so overloaded at 1b though that Viciedo really isn't worth that much to them. Butler is already there, with Ka'aihue there as well, and Hosmer on the way up and killing the ball, Viciedo would be their 4th 1b. 3b isn't really that open for them either; take a look at how they already moved Gordon. And consequently, moving him to the OF isn't really an option either.

[caulfield12]

LHR Candidates

 

Downs, Rhodes (probably too expensive, and have to surrender draft pick)

 

Choate, Randy (Mauer and Morneau combined against) 1 for 7, 2B

Hendrickson, Mark=0 for 3, can also start, but never been that impressed with him...more an NBA player

Feliciano=too expensive and overworked, not familiar with AL, of course, AL not familiar with him either

Takahashi=can also serve as a spot starter, pitched 122 innings last year, too expensive?

Denys Reyes=always hell on the White Sox, obviously familiar with the Twins

Byrdak=0 for 5

Ohman=1 for 6, BB

JC Romero=1 for 8, 2B former Twin, steroids, killed the Sox from 2002-2004, coming off $4.25 million with Phils last year

Beimel, Joe=1 for 4

Mahay, Ron=4 for 25 2 HR's (both Morneau), was on the Twins in 2010 so he has familiarity with them, $4 million last season, most experience by far against the M&M boys

 

Preferred=Downs, Rhodes, Feliciano and Takahashi

Most Likely=Choate, Reyes, Byrdak, Ohman, Beimel, Mahay

Possibility=Romero, Hendrickson

Edited December 9, 2010 by caulfield12

[justBLAZE]

LHR Candidates

 

Downs, Rhodes (probably too expensive, and have to surrender draft pick)

 

Choate, Randy (Mauer and Morneau combined against) 1 for 7, 2B

Hendrickson, Mark=0 for 3, can also start, but never been that impressed with him...more an NBA player

Feliciano=too expensive and overworked, not familiar with AL, of course, AL not familiar with him either

Takahashi=can also serve as a spot starter, pitched 122 innings last year, too expensive?

Denys Reyes=always hell on the White Sox, obviously familiar with the Twins

Byrdak=0 for 5

Ohman=1 for 6, BB

JC Romero=1 for 8, 2B former Twin, steroids, killed the Sox from 2002-2004, coming off $4.25 million with Phils last year

Beimel, Joe=1 for 4

Mahay, Ron=4 for 25 2 HR's (both Morneau), was on the Twins in 2010 so he has familiarity with them, $4 million last season, most experience by far against the M&M boys

 

Preferred=Downs, Rhodes, Feliciano and Takahashi

Most Likely=Choate, Reyes, Byrdak, Ohman, Beimel, Mahay

Possibility=Romero, Hendrickson

 

Great list, albeit pretty sure Denny Reyes signed with the Phillies earlier this week.

 

[beck72]

I guess if you go by what bullpen names have been linked to being available [i haven't heard Soria anywhere, but he'd give the sox a nice, varied selection of arms--looking back at the 2010 trade deadline, the Yanks supposedly offered top prospect C Jesus Montero for him], some names jump out:

FLA, Leo Nunez:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Kansas-...-Marlins-120810

 

LAD, Jonathan Broxton: http://scott-miller.blogs.cbssports.com/mc...270335/26282297

 

 

 

[soxrwhite]

With Sale/Pena as a starter the pen is .........well thin at best. Quentin's bat makes the lineup awesome with Dunn,Konerko, Rios and the rest. Besides who will play right if we trade him, and what could we get for a guy who could have a breakout year. Teahan, Flowers, Viciedo, Lillibridge, De Aza, have to be the trade bait to shore up the pen.

[witesoxfan]

With Sale/Pena as a starter the pen is .........well thin at best. Quentin's bat makes the lineup awesome with Dunn,Konerko, Rios and the rest. Besides who will play right if we trade him, and what could we get for a guy who could have a breakout year. Teahan, Flowers, Viciedo, Lillibridge, De Aza, have to be the trade bait to shore up the pen.

 

Any reliever you get for 3, maybe 4, out of those 5 guys you listed at the end will almost certainly be no better than anything the White Sox currently have in their system, and that goes doubly for Lillibridge and De Aza. Williams is going to be a little more creative than that.

[Steve9347]

[bighurt4life]

Sale

Thornton

Santos

Pena

 

In house options: Carter, Infante, Dolsi, Cofield, Harrell, Jones (Nathan), Marquez, Nunez. Can any of these guys break the camp with the team?

 

If two of them do, then we are one signing away from a successful offseason.

 

Players mentioned: Byrdak, Accardo.

 

What's your idea for next year's bullpen?

 

Also we have Clevelan Santeliz and Brian Omogrosso. Santeliz has the best shot at making the team along with Infante because they both throw very hard and we all know how kenny likes power relievers.

[Balta1701]

Also we have Clevelan Santeliz and Brian Omogrosso. Santeliz has the best shot at making the team along with Infante because they both throw very hard and we all know how kenny likes power relievers.

Wasn't Santeliz released/removed from the 40 man a few weeks ago?

[caulfield12]

Omogrosso looked good before 2009 but he's coming off a major injury...and I think his secondary pitches weren't exactly making Adam Russell jealous.

 

We'll see.

 

I guess I'd prefer him over say, Lucas Harrell or brothers of NFL QB's. Speaking of QB's, it would be nice to have Clayton back. But that ship sailed with Konerko and Cowley and KCP Version 2.0

[caulfield12]

Any reliever you get for 3, maybe 4, out of those 5 guys you listed at the end will almost certainly be no better than anything the White Sox currently have in their system, and that goes doubly for Lillibridge and De Aza. Williams is going to be a little more creative than that.

 

 

You obviously can't trade Mitchell with his value down and Pierre leaving after 2011.

 

It does leave quite a conundrum...the only pieces would have to be Quentin (but you can't replace his POTENTIAL production very easily, and I'm thinking with his plantar fasciitis healed he could have another great season), Viciedo and Danks/Floyd/Jackson. The Brandon Shorts of the world are nice throw-ins, but they're not primary puzzle pieces to a trade. And CJ Retherford went from the next Aaron Miles to oblivion.

 

Teahen's got to reestablish himself as well.

 

Seems they'll try to hope that Carter and Santos Rodriguez can contribute as well. Maybe someone will have another Boone Logan/Scott Radinsky ST and jump from A ball to the bigs.

 

 

[DirtySox]

Wasn't Santeliz released/removed from the 40 man a few weeks ago?

 

Yes. Minor league free agent now.

[striker]

You obviously can't trade Mitchell with his value down and Pierre leaving after 2011.

 

It does leave quite a conundrum...the only pieces would have to be Quentin (but you can't replace his POTENTIAL production very easily, and I'm thinking with his plantar fasciitis healed he could have another great season), Viciedo and Danks/Floyd/Jackson. The Brandon Shorts of the world are nice throw-ins, but they're not primary puzzle pieces to a trade. And CJ Retherford went from the next Aaron Miles to oblivion.

 

Teahen's got to reestablish himself as well.

 

Seems they'll try to hope that Carter and Santos Rodriguez can contribute as well. Maybe someone will have another Boone Logan/Scott Radinsky ST and jump from A ball to the bigs.

If you traded Quentin couldn't you replace him with Andruw Jones? Jones had a higher WAR than Quentin in 2010.

[Balta1701]

If you traded Quentin couldn't you replace him with Andruw Jones? Jones had a higher WAR than Quentin in 2010.

Really, no you couldn't. Jones can't handle being an every day player. He's proven that the last 2 years; you play him every day and within a week something will get sprained or start acting up.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

If you traded Quentin couldn't you replace him with Andruw Jones? Jones had a higher WAR than Quentin in 2010.

 

Stole my thunder, was just about to post this as an idea.

 

See if Quentin can be moved for a quality, controllable (is that even a word?) bullpen arm and platoon Andruw Jones and Teahen in RF.

 

Couple of notes here (to defend my position):

• Jones caught heat from fans on boards and blogs for one single bad month. Otherwise, he played exceedingly well for the Sox (ignoring WAR). He is a plus defender.
• For as much flack as Teahen takes, its because of his 3B defense (was anyone really surprised?) and his contract - but not for his bat. His valuation is based on his hitting (again, ignoring WAR). Keep his glove away from 3B and he'll earn that 4.75 million. If puttiong Teahen on the field and in the lineup 2 or 3 times a week keeps Quentin out of RF, I am all for it.

 

PS - go Sox!

[southsider2k5]

Really, no you couldn't. Jones can't handle being an every day player. He's proven that the last 2 years; you play him every day and within a week something will get sprained or start acting up.

 

Exactly. You could get away with the lack of offense in theory, but the reality is that you would be playing someone from Charlotte for half of the season because Jones would breakdown.

[BigSqwert]

Exactly. You could get away with the lack of offense in theory, but the reality is that you would be playing someone from Charlotte for half of the season because Jones would breakdown.

Teahen/Jones rotation wouldn't work?

[southsider2k5]

Teahen/Jones rotation wouldn't work?

 

It would work in my weightloss because I wouldn't keep meals down watching that regularly.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

It would work in my weightloss because I wouldn't keep meals down watching that regularly.

 

 

Why not? Sox don't need a 300/30/100 guy in RF anymore. They've got enough offense. Now they need PLUS RF defense and offense at replacement level.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I would love to Andruw to be in RF and Quentin to be moved for a reliever or two.

[Balta1701]

Why not? Sox don't need a 300/30/100 guy in RF anymore. They've got enough offense. Now they need PLUS RF defense and offense at replacement level.

Andruw Jones for 75 games and Mark Teahen for 85 games is well below replacement level defense.

[southsider2k5]

Why not? Sox don't need a 300/30/100 guy in RF anymore. They've got enough offense. Now they need PLUS RF defense and offense at replacement level.

 

I wouldn't call Teahen even replacement level defensively at any position. Andruw can play D out there, but Mark is awful.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Andruw Jones for 75 games and Mark Teahen for 85 games is well below replacement level defense.

 

Based on what?

 

Throughout Jones' career, he has been an elite defender and the past 2 seasons in RF has UZR ratings of 11.6 and 12.3 in 2009 and 2010 respectively. Teahen posted a 2.1 UZR in RF for the So last year and has a career -0.9 rating in the OF. Conversely, Carlos Quentin posted -25.2 and -32.7 UZR ratings in 2009 and 2010.

 

You can debate the legitimacy of UZR statistics all you want, but simply stating that Teahen and Jones are "bad defenders" and "well below league average" is baseless and patently false.

 

Regardless of offensive contributions, a Jones/Teahen RF platoon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carlos Quentin.

[Thad Bosley]

For as much flack as Teahen takes, its because of his 3B defense (was anyone really surprised?) and his contract - but not for his bat. His valuation is based on his hitting (again, ignoring WAR). Keep his glove away from 3B and he'll earn that 4.75 million. If puttiong Teahen on the field and in the lineup 2 or 3 times a week keeps Quentin out of RF, I am all for it.

Nobody should have been surprised by Teahen last season, least of all any fans of the AL Central. He played like he did with the Sox last year - meaning he was sub-par offensively and defensively - for five full seasons with the Royals prior to coming to us. That includes being lousy with the glove in the outfield. So it's bad enough that he will more or less be the 25th man on the roster next year as a result of that contract we can't unload. Just please don't suggest he be run out to the field in any capacity at any frequency approaching regularity.

[Balta1701]

Nice work there glossing over the stats. Teahen played 10 games there in 2010. Most everyone knows that UZR doesn't work well over short time periods, and is even better with multiple years, not 10 games.

 

If I do a little more looking, during the 32 games Teahen played in RF in 2009...he put up a -39.7 UZR. That means UZR thinks he was literally worth -1.2 runs per game in RF in 2009. That would be a -180 UZR over 162 games if that's how it worked.

 

UZR thinks he wasn't awful in RF in 2007, that's why his career number isn't terrible.