Very true, but that's why I only bring that out to respond to the specific post PolishPrince made. That he "drove the organization into the ground."

 

What's happened the last few years is weak GMing, not total destruction. The huge miss that could've been avoided with closer inspection was Peavy, Rios was the bad but decent gamble (though it paid off decently in Rios' 2010 campaign), and Dunn was the sure-fire total shocker.

 

Also through the recent years KW has had good moves Danks/Floyd/Alexei/Sale/Dayan/CQ that he fails to get enough credit for, it's just that the two worst ones have been bad enough to obscure several nice smaller moves

Peavy was also a gamble that didn't pay off, and we really didn't give up much other than money to make that happen. There are 2 moves you're missing from the list though, and those are the 2 that I'd say really are hurting us...the Gio for Swisher deal and the Hudson for Jackson deal.

Very true, but that's why I only bring that out to respond to the specific post PolishPrince made. That he "drove the organization into the ground."

 

What's happened the last few years is weak GMing, not total destruction. The huge miss that could've been avoided with closer inspection was Peavy, Rios was the bad but decent gamble (though it paid off decently in Rios' 2010 campaign), and Dunn was the sure-fire total shocker.

 

Also through the recent years KW has had good moves Danks/Floyd/Alexei/Sale/Dayan/CQ that he fails to get enough credit for, it's just that the two worst ones have been bad enough to obscure several nice smaller moves

 

The beginning of the end of KW's reign as a good GM was the Swisher trade from the A's. Not only did it result in getting rid of Gio, but then after Swisher busted, you had to go spend a fortune on Rios the following year to play CF. If Swisher had panned out, the organization takes a totally different path.

The beginning of the end of KW's reign as a good GM was the Swisher trade from the A's. Not only did it result in getting rid of Gio, but then after Swisher busted, you had to go spend a fortune on Rios the following year to play CF. If Swisher had panned out, the organization takes a totally different path.

 

Thanks Ozzie.

The beginning of the end of KW's reign as a good GM was the Swisher trade from the A's. Not only did it result in getting rid of Gio, but then after Swisher busted, you had to go spend a fortune on Rios the following year to play CF. If Swisher had panned out, the organization takes a totally different path.

Its amazing how baseball works out. We were so close in signing Tori Hunter in 2008 before LA swooped in and over payed. If that doesn't happen, we wouldn't have traded Gio for Swisher, who we then trade for nothing. That pretty much opened the door for KW to go ahead and bring in Rios. We can pretty much blaim the Angels for the loss of Gio. just kidding. That one is all KW!

 

 

Hudson for Jackson was apparently messed up by Rizzo, but KW was a professional and went through with an agreed to component deal. That said, I understand that this does not mean we can take it off his record. It stands, and yes it's bad.

 

Also I know you're discussing the first Swisher deal, but I also will mention that Ozzie demanded Swisher be taken off the team and KW granted that request immediately. Ozzie also responsible for giving Juan Pierre a billion atbats over these last few years.

Edited January 24, 201214 yr by Princess Dye

Hudson for Jackson was apparently messed up by Rizzo, but KW was a professional and went through with an agreed to component deal. That said, I understand that this does not mean we can take it off his record. It stands, and yes it's bad.

 

Also I know you're discussing the first Swisher deal, but I also will mention that Ozzie demanded Swisher be taken off the team and KW granted that request immediately. Ozzie also responsible for giving Juan Pierre a billion atbats over these last few years.

Hudson, Holmberg, and anything else for half a year of Dunn is still a major overpay.

Hudson, Holmberg, and anything else for half a year of Dunn is still a major overpay.

 

Don't forget that at the time, Dunn said he wouldn't agree to an extension with an AL team because he didn't want to become a full-time DH. It made a possible big trade for Dunn at that time even dumber.

I get what you're saying, but I think most people put Dunn's 2011 on Dunn. He's a proven hitter and the contract and expectations KW had were standard.

 

Lets put it this way. It's a failed move by a gm because it didn't work out.... but it's not an abysmal, career-defining move by the gm simply BECAUSE Dunn had an abysmal year.

 

Abysmal career defining GM moves have to have more meat to it than this, have to show an error in judgment as they're happening (Soriano etc). Dunn's age wasn't an issue, and the contract was not bad value.

Edited January 24, 201214 yr by Princess Dye

Kenny should never, ever be blamed for signing Dunn. It filled a serious need while not breaking the bank. The move just didn't work out, but it was totally justified.

Abysmal career defining GM moves have to have more meat to it than this, have to show an error in judgment as they're happening (Soriano etc). Dunn's age wasn't an issue, and the contract was not bad value.

Soriano was not an abysmal, career-defining move for a GM. It was exactly the kind of move management wanted.

Soriano was not an abysmal, career-defining move for a GM. It was exactly the kind of move management wanted.

 

It was career defining in the sense that it pretty well got him fired.

Soriano was not an abysmal, career-defining move for a GM. It was exactly the kind of move management wanted.

 

Hmm... is your meaning that the brass above Hendry at the time called for the Soriano contract specifically, or at least called for a drastic overspend splash w/ minimal focus?

 

I think we saw a similar thing happen to Theo in recent years, where these gigantic moves the Red Sox have been making lately almost become this expected thing and if anything take away from our ability to fairly evaluate the GM.

 

I guess I see that, although Hendry was still a GM that only got his once-in-awhile offseasons to open the checkbook wide...

Edited January 24, 201214 yr by Princess Dye

Hmm... is your meaning that the brass above Hendry at the time called for the Soriano contract specifically, or at least called for a drastic overspend splash w/ minimal focus?

 

I think we saw a similar thing happen to Theo in recent years, where these gigantic moves the Red Sox have been making lately almost become this expected thing and if anything take away from our ability to fairly evaluate the GM.

 

I guess I see that, although Hendry was still a GM that only got his once-in-awhile offseasons to open the checkbook wide...

Hendrys job in about 2007 was to maximize revenue by putting together a team that could pack the stadium and make a run at a world series at any cost. The reasoning was simple...maximizing the revenue puts the Tribune co in position to sell the team for the most money it can. If the future owners had to deal with bad contracts, that was not a concern.

 

Hendry did exactly the job he was supposed to do. He probably even knew it would cost him his job eventually, but make no mistake..."win now at any cost" was his goal.

Now I understand the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson contract.

Kenny should never, ever be blamed for signing Dunn. It filled a serious need while not breaking the bank. The move just didn't work out, but it was totally justified.

 

 

And he has a chance to redeem himself in 2012. Now if Dunn fails again then we really took it in the shorts with that big 4 year deal

Gordon Beckham is tweeting about the State of the Union Address or whatever political thing is on TV right now if anyone cares.

Dunn has been working out -- and swinging bat for the first time in offseason -- but rumors of significant weight loss greatly exaggerated -- Van Schouwen

Dunn has been working out -- and swinging bat for the first time in offseason -- but rumors of significant weight loss greatly exaggerated -- Van Schouwen

Shocking.

Gordon Beckham is tweeting about the State of the Union Address or whatever political thing is on TV right now if anyone cares.

 

Whatever your politics, I think this Rongey quote is fitting for ALL athletes:

 

Chris Rongey @ChrisRongey 1h

Thinking twitter is not the best thing for athletes with political opinions. Probably a lot of guys that would like a do-over or two

 

 

Dunn has been working out -- and swinging bat for the first time in offseason -- but rumors of significant weight loss greatly exaggerated -- Van Schouwen

 

S.o.a.b

Who are some of the folks on Twitter worth following for trade rumors and such?

Excerpt from the Trib today...

 

Extra innings: Catcher Donny Lucy, who played parts of the 2007, 2010 and 2011 seasons with the Sox, has retired to pursue business opportunities.

 

Always liked the guy, he just wasn't a major league hitter. I'll bet he comes back to the game to be a coach at some point.

 

Excerpt from the Trib today...

 

 

 

Always liked the guy, he just wasn't a major league hitter. I'll bet he comes back to the game to be a coach at some point.

 

He's going to sell avocados.

Who are some of the folks on Twitter worth following for trade rumors and such?

 

Heyman, Morosi is all you really NEED. If anyone else breaks anything, one of those guys will retweet it within 10 minutes. I have Olney, Gammons, Knopfler (sp?) and some FanGraphs guys too, just for color.

He's going to sell avocados.

After 8 years of playing professional baseball for the Chicago White Sox Donny has decided to channel his energies towards the avocado industry.