RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Sale could close. Would management flip flop on this again and make Sale the closer? If we keep Danks then the rotation could be Danks/Floyd/Peavy/Humber/Stewart and maybe Molina could be put on the fast track to get some major league starts in 2012 and then fill Peavy's rotation spot in 2013???? Its better for the team if Sale starts and you use 1 of 4 legit closer candidates as your closer. Addison Reed is probably the favorite moving forward. He has VERY good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Once again, if we're rebuilding it makes 0 sense to have Sale closing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) Who was it that said trading Santos would send a negative message to players in the future looking to sign extensions here? lol. I said that and still stand by that, but nothing we can do about it now. If we actually commit to a legitimate rebuilding then it won't look as bad IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:11 PM) Its better for the team if Sale starts and you use 1 of 4 legit closer candidates as your closer. Addison Reed is probably the favorite moving forward. He has VERY good stuff. Â Who are our 4 legit closer candidates? I only see one for 2012 and it Sale. He is 12 out of 14 in his career. Sale has great stuff. Maybe more effective as a closer than a starter. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:10 PM) If Kenny isn't moving Floyd or Danks, then this isn't a rebuild. If he's hanging onto them-at least until July-then the sox will still have a chance to compete for 2012 Â Well if you are going to move Danks now is the time. He will have more value at this point with a year left. With a month and a half left in the season, we are getting crap on a stick for him. We had a 79 win team. If the Royals get a few pitchers that puts 3 teams ahead of the sox. This team as constructed is not going to win the AL Central. So saying f*** it, and going all in again is another guarantee of a large payroll and another 79 to 82 win season. Just fire Kenny if thats the case. Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Addison Reed people, Addison Reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) Its better for the team if Sale starts and you use 1 of 4 legit closer candidates as your closer. Addison Reed is probably the favorite moving forward. He has VERY good stuff. Trading a guy like Santos and plugging in a guy like Reed smacks of an Atlanta Braves move. That's OK in my book. The sox haven't had the farm system to plug guys into the bigs ala the Braves though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) Who are our 4 legit closer candidates? I only see one for 2012 and it Sale. He is 12 out of 14 in his career. Sale has great stuff. Maybe more effective as a closer than a starter. Â Stewart, Marinez, Sale, and Reed are all options. A lot of scouts liked Stewart as a back of the bullpen guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) Who are our 4 legit closer candidates? I only see one for 2012 and it Sale. He is 12 out of 14 in his career. Sale has great stuff. Maybe more effective as a closer than a starter. Sale has the stuff of a starter as well. Addison Reed closed for us in the minors, check out his stats. Jesse Crain could close and theoretically the staff thought Thornton could close, Frasor has closing experience. Â Out of those, Addison Reed is the best bet and was the "closer in waiting". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:15 PM) Well if you are going to move Danks now is the time. He will have more value at this point with a year left. With a month and a half left in the season, we are getting crap on a stick for him. We had a 79 win team. If the Royals get a few pitchers that puts 3 teams ahead of the sox. This team as constructed is not going to win the AL Central. So saying f*** it, and going all in again is another guarantee of a large payroll and another 79 to 82 win season. Just fire Kenny if thats the case. I was just going by what KW said, that he would probably hang onto his pitchers-though you should take everything he says w/ a grain of salt. Kenny was probably just getting GM's to come in with offers for Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:16 PM) Addison Reed people, Addison Reed. Â No, that's no good. He's unproven and not worthy. You don't see other teams (Braves with Kimbrel, Brewers with Axford) handing over closer duties to guys with no track record of ML success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:17 PM) Stewart, Marinez, Sale, and Reed are all options. A lot of scouts liked Stewart as a back of the bullpen guy. Â Not sure if I really like just throwing a guy into the closer role. Prefer starting guys in the bullpen as relievers and work them towards the closer role. Like Santos started as a reliever and worked his way to closer. Took him a little bit over one season to move into that role (to even get a shot at the job) And then at that point hopefully you can keep the guy in that position. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) No, that's no good. He's unproven and not worthy. You don't see other teams (Braves with Kimbrel, Brewers with Axford) handing over closer duties to guys with no track record of ML success. Â You forgot your green! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Surprised that only 1 spec is coming back as a return. Seems like a classic KW gamble to me.... Â Go big or go home. Â Reality seems to be that this kid either turns out to be DLS part 2 or a potential top of the line starter. There's no in-between or modesty in KW synapses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) Not sure if I really like just throwing a guy into the closer role. Prefer starting guys in the bullpen as relievers and work them towards the closer role. Like Santos started as a reliever and worked his way to closer. Took him a little bit over one season to move into that role (to even get a shot at the job) And then at that point hopefully you can keep the guy in that position. Â Â Stewart was in the bullpen in the minors for a while, he has 7 ml saves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) No, that's no good. He's unproven and not worthy. You don't see other teams (Braves with Kimbrel, Brewers with Axford) handing over closer duties to guys with no track record of ML success. Â One thing is for sure, guys from the minors can never close and win games of importance. Never happens. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:34 PM) One thing is for sure, guys from the minors can never close and win games of importance. Never happens. Â Â That never happened. It was an optical illusion. As far as I'm concerned, Dustin Hermanson was our closer down the stretch and in the playoffs in '05. Why? Well, the answer is simple: I was more familiar with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:03 PM) Ex-Sox Santo(s) Elected to HOF Â In my opinion, some of the responses around here substantially overvalue Sergio and non-Mo closers generally. Sergio was a great story and a pretty good reliever too. I have a suspicion the league has figured him out a bit and his best days might be behind him, but only time will tell. Â So, I have no problem trading "high." But Kenny! Trading HIGH means ... umm ... trading ... HIGH. Ever hear of leverage??? Â Count me in with those who believe a more skilled GM might have received more for a young, low-mileage, cost-controlled reliever, with at times dominant stuff, who has had pretty darned good success already in the bigs than a non-stuff prospect with just a handful of games at AA. Most. Prospects. Don't. Make. It. More often than not, when a known big leaguer is traded for prospects, they are traded for MULTIPLE prospects (unless the prospects are virtual "can't miss" prospects or ones with ungodly tools -- by all accounts, while a good prospect, Molina is neither). Sure seems that WE generally have to trade multiple prospects when we trade for current major leaguers. Â Yes, I'm not in on the meetings and I don't know for sure, but doesn't it always APPEAR that KW just takes the first interesting offer and NEVER creates any sort of auction mentality when he makes his trades? Gammons suggested teams like the Red Sox and Orioles would have had great interest in Sergio. Rather than forever being stealth-Kenny and loving to surprise people with under-the-radar deals, how about notifying a lot of teams -- including some with strong rivalries -- that player X is available for the high bidder and pump-up-the-bidding? Seems other teams do this all the time and we NEVER, EVER do it. Â I've always loved Kenny's go-for-it mentality, but, increasingly, I just don't think he's very good at the skill-set required of a trade-making GM. Â Â Interesting take on the situation and GM. The trtade leaves me wondeirng too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:41 PM) That never happened. It was an optical illusion. As far as I'm concerned, Dustin Hermanson was our closer down the stretch and in the playoffs in '05. Why? Well, the answer is simple: I was more familiar with him. I don't like change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Molina better be badass. Â I have no worries about Reed, he's a machine designed to get people out, but I want a great return for Sergio Santos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 This trade is definitely a gamble, but it also comes along with a huge reward. Â Could we have gotten more? Maybe. Could we have gotten a pitcher with a high ceiling than Molina? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) Marty wins? I just logged back on. Holy s***. Â Thanks for the props J4L. i don't always agree with you, but you're a solid guy. Â As far as the return for Santos, I think it's fair, not great or terrible. For those that did not like the return for Santos, you better close your eyes because I don't think it will get better than Molina unless they deal Viciedo. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:56 PM) Thanks for the props J4L. i don't always agree with you, but you're a solid guy. As far as the return for Santos, I think it's fair, not great or terrible. For those that did not like the return for Santos, you better close your eyes because I don't think it will get better than Molina unless they deal Viciedo.  No problem. You were consistent from the start. I can appreciate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 2013 rotation takes a nice step forward. If they can get a very good return for Danks and Floyd I don't see why Buehrle could not be slotted in at #3 ahead of Molina. Â 1) Sale 2) Humber 3) Molina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) "a more skilled GM" hahah. So are we in agreement then that he gets 0 credit for 2005 then? That list is dwindling Edited December 6, 2011 by Jenksy Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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