Sergio Santos traded to Toronto

[SOXOBAMA]

Also Beane traded Hudson for a few rejects

[bulokis]

Rebuild mode to the fullest but it might not be bad. Since '05 the sox has not performed to their abilities. All the frustrating loses to Minny, recently called up Cy young pitchers and etc. If somebody wants Peavy, trade him because he probably does not want to be part of a rebuilding team. If Konerko wants to be with a winning team, he can be traded also for the right price.

 

My only problem with this is looking at some of KW trades, the other teams wanted our players but it feels like we come out on the short end.

[CyAcosta41]

The one thing we're doing is building up depth in the most important area for any organization, young/quality starting pitching.

 

See, that's exactly my problem with what we're doing. We're not building up any real depth, at least not as much depth as we could be building up. Given our resources (lack of money and farm), we don't have the luxury of 1:1 trades of current major league talent (however flawed) for prospects. It's obviously a judgment call and market feel, but with some patience, a shrinking closer market might have landed us two "Molina-types" (or a Molina type, plus a hugely toolsy prospect). Someone might overpay (as we regularly seem to do). Wait it out a bit and find them.

 

I sure hope that we wait it out a bit before dealing either or both Danks or Floyd. Solid (but not spectacular) starting pitchers of the workhorse variety have never been more valuable. Love Mark Buehrle to death (my favorite Sox pitcher since Gary Peters!), but the market for both he and a somewhat pedestrian CJ Wilson makes it very clear that someone -- someone of the "it just takes ONE" variety -- will overpay to bring in a quality major league starter who will start 30+ games with fairly predictable results (whether controlled for one year or two).

 

I respect your analysis of KW's previous acquisitions and wasn't at all implying that he doesn't target some quality and oft-times undervalued quality players. He does. But part of that is that he's just a very active trader. Like Kenny Williams the hitter, Kenny Williams the GM swings hard (and often) just in case he hits it. Sometimes he does and it can be spectacular. But he misses a lot too. I just don't think our resources give us that luxury.

Edited December 7, 2011 by CyAcosta41

[SOXOBAMA]

If KW was to give up on Ethier,Street, Gonzalez, Hudson, Wallace and Nelson Cruz like the overrated guy has, this site would be b****ing for many years..

 

Also, since he traded away C Gonzalez, he got nothing for Haren as well.

Edited December 7, 2011 by SOXOBAMA

[sunofgold]

Why didn't this trade involve more players. Why didn't we trade them Thornton as well. Maybe for another high end prospect. Somehow could have included Thornton in a trade. Maybe even Quentin.

[LittleHurt05]

If KW was to give up on Ethier, Gonzalez, Hudson and Nelson Cruz like the overrated guy has, this site would be b****ing for many years..

 

Fortunately for him, the Athletics barely have any fans, so he doesn't have to worry about the b****ing.

[PolishPrince34]

Bailey is a much better player..

Bailey has been shelved for 2 months each of the last 2 seasons and is an elbow surgery waiting to happen. Would rather have Santos and his friendly contract over Bailey

[caulfield12]

See, that's exactly my problem with what we're doing. We're not building up any real depth, at least not as much depth as we could be building up. Given our resources (lack of money and farm), we don't have the luxury of 1:1 trades of current major league talent (however flawed) for prospects. It's obviously a judgment call and market feel, but with some patience, a shrinking closer market might have landed us two "Molina-types" (or a Molina type, plus a hugely toolsy prospect). Someone might overpay (as we regularly seem to do). Wait it out a bit and find them.

 

I sure hope that we wait it out a bit before dealing either or both Danks or Floyd. Solid (but not spectacular) starting pitchers of the workhorse variety have never been more valuable. Love Mark Buehrle to death (my favorite Sox pitcher since Gary Peters!), but the market for both he and a somewhat pedestrian CJ Wilson makes it very clear that someone -- someone of the "it just takes ONE" variety -- will overpay to bring in a quality major league starter who will start 30+ games with fairly predictable results (whether controlled for one year or two).

 

I respect your analysis of KW's previous acquisitions and wasn't at all implying that he doesn't target some quality and oft-times undervalued quality players. He does. But part of that is that he's just a very active trader. Like Kenny Williams the hitter, Kenny Williams the GM swings hard (and often) just in case he hits it. Sometimes he does and it can be spectacular. But he misses a lot too. I just don't think our resources give us that luxury.

 

 

You might be right...I'd rather roll the dice on 2 future Johan Santanas or Francisco Lirianos in A ball than one closer to the big leagues in Molina. Also ironic that we're acquiring more Venezuelans with Ozzie gone.

 

And I forgot to mention the Quentin/Carter deal, too.

 

FROM baseballamerica.com (sorry if already posted)

 

The Blue Jays have an enviable amount of depth in their farm system and could afford to trade Molina, even though he was on the verge of pitching in the big leagues. Molina originally signed as a third baseman in April 2006. He moved to the mound in 2007, throwing just one inning in the Dominican Summer League. He returned in 2008 and made 20 appearances, completing the transition. Prior to 2011, Molina had made just 77 career appearances, four of which were starts. Toronto had their sights set on giving him a chance to start, assigning him to the high Class A Dunedin rotation. He flourished in the move, throwing 130 innings between Dunedin and Double-A New Hampshire while striking out more than a batter per inning and walking about one per nine. Molina has above-average command of a fastball that ranges from 88-93 mph. He originally tried to turn his slurvy breaking ball into a slider, but he has shifted to using a curveball now. Molina has a legitimate out-pitch in his splitter, and he also shows feel for a straight changeup. His secondary stuff doesn't jump off the page, but his fastball command helps it play up. He profiles nicely in the back of a rotation and will likely make his big league debut in 2012.

 

Interesting, sounds a lot like Santos' career trajectory without the dominating fastball in the mid 90's.

Edited December 7, 2011 by caulfield12

[SOXOBAMA]

Fortunately for him, the Athletics barely have any fans, so he doesn't have to worry about the b****ing.

 

I can't stand Billy Beane..

[Quin]

If KW was to give up on Ethier,Street, Gonzalez, Hudson, Wallace and Nelson Cruz like the overrated guy has, this site would be b****ing for many years..

 

Also, since he traded away C Gonzalez, he got nothing for Haren as well.

 

Beane is the most overrated GM ever.

 

You might be right...I'd rather roll the dice on 2 future Johan Santanas or Francisco Lirianos in A ball than one closer to the big leagues in Molina. Also ironic that we're acquiring more Venezuelans with Ozzie gone.

 

And I forgot to mention the Quentin/Carter deal, too.

 

FROM baseballamerica.com (sorry if already posted)

 

The Blue Jays have an enviable amount of depth in their farm system and could afford to trade Molina, even though he was on the verge of pitching in the big leagues. Molina originally signed as a third baseman in April 2006. He moved to the mound in 2007, throwing just one inning in the Summer League. He returned in 2008 and made 20 appearances, completing the transition. Prior to 2011, Molina had made just 77 career appearances, four of which were starts. Toronto had their sights set on giving him a chance to start, assigning him to the high Class A Dunedin rotation. He flourished in the move, throwing 130 innings between Dunedin and Double-A New Hampshire while striking out more than a batter per inning and walking about one per nine. Molina has above-average command of a fastball that ranges from 88-93 mph. He originally tried to turn his slurvy breaking ball into a slider, but he has shifted to using a curveball now. Molina has a legitimate out-pitch in his splitter, and he also shows feel for a straight changeup. His secondary stuff doesn't jump off the page, but his fastball command helps it play up. He profiles nicely in the back of a rotation and will likely make his big league debut in 2012.

 

Interesting, sounds a lot like Santos' career trajectory without the dominating fastball in the mid 90's.

 

And he's a starter...

[caulfield12]

Beane is the most overrated GM ever.

 

 

 

And he's a starter...

 

 

Just wish we could have leveraged something out of Jenks, Crede and (now) Beckham when they had value.

 

Alas...life never works like that.

 

Let's hope this is a case where we look back later and say KW maximized the value of a player and got someone who made even more of a contribution to the franchise over the long haul.

 

Lost in all of the complaining is the faint praise for us getting what we did out of Santos the last two seasons (as a pitcher).

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Awesome ! Kenny's decided we need young starting pitchers who's upside is perhaps, with luck, as good as Gio Gonzales or Dan Hudson. Oh the irony.

[ptatc]

If KW was to give up on Ethier,Street, Gonzalez, Hudson, Wallace and Nelson Cruz like the overrated guy has, this site would be b****ing for many years..

 

Also, since he traded away C Gonzalez, he got nothing for Haren as well.

 

Like it isn't now?

 

[Wanne]

Just wish we could have leveraged something out of Jenks, Crede and (now) Beckham when they had value.

 

Alas...life never works like that.

 

Let's hope this is a case where we look back later and say KW maximized the value of a player and got someone who made even more of a contribution to the franchise over the long haul.

 

I remember having that convo with my dad after the WS that there was no better time to dump Crede than right now...they could have made a killing on it.

[oldsox]

Sox website has Molina as its #2 prospect behind Addison Reed.

[macsandz]

Sox website has Molina as its #2 prospect behind Addison Reed.

 

No doubt. #3 is a long fall from there...

[mcgrad70]

This is where you tell us that it's Jerry Reinsdorf's fault...

 

 

I don't have to, you just did...thanks.

 

[Quin]

So, whats our prospect rankings right now?

 

# 1 Reed

# 2 Molina

# 3 Thompson...

 

then who else? Marinez and Martinez? Petricka? Walker? Mitchell?

[Chicago White Sox]

God our minor league system sucks. We really need a good chunk of Beckham, Viciedo, Morel, Flowers, De Aza, Sale, & Stewart to prove themselves as legitimate regulars/starters or else this is going to be a long f***ing rebuilding process.

 

As for the top 10, Saladino should be in the top five. I wouldn't be surprised if some random prospect like Carlos Sanchez made it. The end of that list is going to be a joke.

[The Ginger Kid]

I think Sergio was still a work in progress. He might be better suited to setup than closing. He might become a dominant closer. Still uncertain. I'll take Molina, not knowing what else could've been had.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

The more I read about Molina and talk to people, the less I am liking this deal. It appears Sickel was the only person very high on Molina, and a lot of people seem to not respect his opinion in the baseball community.

 

Goldstein said Molina would be about #10 or #11 in Jays system, and was apparently #18 on Baseball America's unofficial Jays rankings.

 

Makes me wonder if Molina was really as "untouchable" as Jays fans thought, or if AA was just trying to drive up the perceived value of him and when he made this deal made Kenny feel like he got AA to "cave in" to letting go of Molina, but really never thought as highly of him as he lead on.

 

I don't know, it just worries me how many people think he may just be a reliever, and the fact that most of his success comes from A-ball.

[Wanne]

I think Sergio was still a work in progress. He might be better suited to setup than closing. He might become a dominant closer. Still uncertain. I'll take Molina, not knowing what else could've been had.

 

Like I said...my biggest fear is everybody clicks next year...and we find we have not reliable closer. Sergio was in his first real year as a closer. That could work both ways...he could come out and dominate or he could crumble with the pressure of being "the man". I really don't think anybody knows yet. This deal is still a couple years away from being graded.

[greg775]

Good column by Rogers.

Kenny thought he was playing winter ball year ... or did he?

 

Rogers points out most think the Sox got fleeced.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,4406560.column

[Quin]

Good column by Rogers.

 

False.

[SoxAce]

Props to Marty for calling out selling Santos to his highest value. (and I doubt he'll have another season like he did this prior one) KW sold high on this deal (supposedly.. Jays GM is very good though. Hopefully our scouts like this guy as well as his numbers indicate). Addison Reed, as I've stated many times, is the future closer of this team. Looks like the sox FO believes he is ready or close to it (Crain might get first dibs).

Edited December 7, 2011 by SoxAce