caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ May 5, 2012 -> 09:34 PM) Vance Worley would work for me. Philly can afford to move a SP to shore up their bullpen. Are the Phillies really in a position to give up that much in return for Matt Thornton, especially with his salary? Seems like fixing their offense on the fly with some band-aids for this season would be more of a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 10:37 PM) Are the Phillies really in a position to give up that much in return for Matt Thornton, especially with his salary? Seems like fixing their offense on the fly with some band-aids for this season would be more of a priority. I didn't say that it would happen. I just speculated that it would be a nice trade for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ May 5, 2012 -> 10:34 PM) Vance Worley would work for me. Philly can afford to move a SP to shore up their bullpen. Philly is sitting at $174.5 million team salary in the USA Today version here, and the Luxury tax level is $178 million. Phils are sitting at that level for a reason, just like the Red Sox, so that they don't hit the luxury tax level and get compound penalties if they go over it another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 5, 2012 -> 10:38 PM) Philly is sitting at $174.5 million team salary in the USA Today version here, and the Luxury tax level is $178 million. Phils are sitting at that level for a reason, just like the Red Sox, so that they don't hit the luxury tax level and get compound penalties if they go over it another year. How are they going to do roster expansion on Sept 1 then? Won't that add more than 3.5 mil to their salaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:41 PM) How are they going to do roster expansion on Sept 1 then? Won't that add more than 3.5 mil to their salaries? They don't have to bring up more than a handful of players (3-4-5-6 guys), and their salaries are pro-rated for just that month, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 10:43 PM) They don't have to bring up more than a handful of players (3-4-5-6 guys), and their salaries are pro-rated for just that month, right? Correct on both, I'd guess. Each team might have a million or two worth of space to add, but they're starting at $174-$175 for a reason, to stay under that tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Plus those guys are going to be making the MLB minimum for the most part. The bigger question would be adding a bat at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ May 5, 2012 -> 09:34 PM) Vance Worley would work for me. Philly can afford to move a SP to shore up their bullpen. No way Philly will give up Worley for Thornton. Maybe Sale or Reed though (not sure I'd be okay with that though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 So lemme get this straight. We're going to continue on with Hector Santiago in our bullpen. Addison Reed in our bullpen. Chris Sale in our bullpen. and Zach Stewart in our bullpen. who the f*** is starting for us next year? Danks, Humber, Axelrod, ________, _________ if the plan were going to be either one of Stewart and Santiago, why the f*** haven't they already been sent down to work as starters? I hate everything about white sox baseball right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ May 6, 2012 -> 12:30 AM) So lemme get this straight. We're going to continue on with Hector Santiago in our bullpen. Addison Reed in our bullpen. Chris Sale in our bullpen. and Zach Stewart in our bullpen. who the f*** is starting for us next year? Danks, Humber, Axelrod, ________, _________ if the plan were going to be either one of Stewart and Santiago, why the f*** haven't they already been sent down to work as starters? I hate everything about white sox baseball right now. Well, Bud Selig and friends have been making a lot of changes of late. The draft, extra Wildcard. Maybe they'll institute a rule in which the first five innings of baseball games are eliminated and go from just innings 6-9. Then the White Sox will be a potential juggernaut. Damn, that was kinda lame. But yeah, you don't build your franchise around bullpen arms. I don't care how good they are. Look at Tampa. That's how you're supposed to treat the bullpen. Edited May 6, 2012 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) And this gets back to the point of why I'm so angry with Williams and the Sox management in general. Chris Sale was the key component for us to be competitive in the future, him becoming a sort of Randy Johnson-Lite. Without that, having the greatest young bullpen since The Nasty Boys in Cincy doesn't mean a thing unless you have the starting line-up and rotation to put the back end of your bullpen in a position to consistently close out games. Granted, they still have the option of holding onto Floyd ONE MORE YEAR if they feel they can actually compete in 2013, but that's 50/50 at best right now. So there legitimately could be at least THREE openings in the starting rotation, and if they're filled with young/rookie pitchers, it will take them at least 2-3 years (see Baltimore Orioles of today or Glavine/Smoltz/Avery in the late 80's/early 90's) to become consistent winners at the big league level, and there are SUBSTANTIAL doubts in the minds of everyone around baseball those guys have the talent to even do it. We're not the 30th ranked farm system in the majors without reason. Danks Floyd ??? (option for 2013) Humber Axelrod, Molina, S. Castro, Hector Santiago, maybe Pedro Hernandez (BIRM)...you'd have to say the odds for Zach Stewart look very long to be a starter again...and perhaps Petricka, but that would be a huge reach or stretch for 2013. So we really have 5 guys for two and possibly three open spots (although surely we'd get young pitching back for Floyd in a trade). But, yeah, not really pretty projecting forward into future years past this one. Edited May 6, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 You know what we should do? We should project everything based on what happened two days ago and expect nothing else to happen, ever. that is what we should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:17 AM) You know what we should do? We should project everything based on what happened two days ago and expect nothing else to happen, ever. that is what we should do. That's exactly what I was thinking, too...Because this is the exact roster we will have for the next 7 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I've been busy the past few days and honestly not following the team. Imagine my surprise this morning as I read this thread. I kept looking over my shoulder to the window, half expecting the sun not to rise. I don't like that the team is in a position that they feel this is a necessary step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:19 AM) That's exactly what I was thinking, too...Because this is the exact roster we will have for the next 7 years. Well we both know Kenny never trades anyone, and he always has the same roster. With caulfields predictions of doom and death, and fathom's worrisome assessment of Robin Ventura through 26 games, and Marty needing to trade everyone and anyone, we should really start to think about the Sox quitting the AL and moving to the Independent league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) Well we both know Kenny never trades anyone, and he always has the same roster. With caulfields predictions of doom and death, and fathom's worrisome assessment of Robin Ventura through 26 games, and Marty needing to trade everyone and anyone, we should really start to think about the Sox quitting the AL and moving to the Independent league. And we dislike Cowley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Hey, I only talked of impending DOOM, no mentions of death as of YET. My metaphorical signature doesn't count. It's an allegory, not to be taken literally, lol. Edited May 6, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:39 AM) And we dislike Cowley why the green? it is true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:17 AM) You know what we should do? We should project everything based on what happened two days ago and expect nothing else to happen, ever. that is what we should do. Where are they going to get a potential top-of-the-rotation starter next year. If Danks doesn't step up they'll need two. Every year they go without that settled is a rebuilding year. Edited May 6, 2012 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 6, 2012 -> 09:20 AM) Where are they going to get a potential top-of-the-rotation starter next year. If Danks doesn't step up they'll need two. Every year they go without that settled is a rebuilding year. Chris Sale and Nestor Molina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I dont know Marty, it is really hard to tell within this large vacuum that everyone is making predictions from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) Well we both know Kenny never trades anyone, and he always has the same roster. With caulfields predictions of doom and death, and fathom's worrisome assessment of Robin Ventura through 26 games, and Marty needing to trade everyone and anyone, we should really start to think about the Sox quitting the AL and moving to the Independent league. QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) why the green? it is true Fixed. Just pointing out that Cowley would fit better here than we like to think. BTW, great post earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 08:23 AM) I dont know Marty, it is really hard to tell within this large vacuum that everyone is making predictions from we have no minor league system from which to cultivate two starting pitchers we have no minor league system from which to deal for two starting pitchers we have no major league pieces with friendly enough contracts to deal for two starting pitchers we have absolutely zero track record on drafting decent players, and even if we did, that would be a couple years off. the reality is, we're not going to be competitive for the next couple years. and that bums me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 6, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) we have no minor league system from which to cultivate two starting pitchers we have no minor league system from which to deal for two starting pitchers we have no major league pieces with friendly enough contracts to deal for two starting pitchers we have absolutely zero track record on drafting decent players, and even if we did, that would be a couple years off. the reality is, we're not going to be competitive for the next couple years. and that bums me out. This has been said pretty much every season since KW has been the GM, yet somehow he has been able to trade for proven starters like Peavy, Jackson, Garcia, Vazquez, etc. Somehow the Sox minors doesnt look as bad to opposing GMs as it does to us, weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ May 6, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) we have no minor league system from which to cultivate two starting pitchers we have no minor league system from which to deal for two starting pitchers we have no major league pieces with friendly enough contracts to deal for two starting pitchers we have absolutely zero track record on drafting decent players, and even if we did, that would be a couple years off. the reality is, we're not going to be competitive for the next couple years. and that bums me out. Now you have a lot of extra time during the summer to do something you might enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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