Balta1701 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 04:06 PM) But then the money you save has to be reinvested into perceived areas of weakness! We're not seeing that (yet!). Jake Peavy was brought back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) AJ/Fisk is an apt comparison. Both were anchors for the team a long time, and management has sought to replace/supplement both over that tenure. Not to mention, with the White Sox, their offensive numbers aren't all that different. The Sox wanted to dump Fisk when he was AJ's age in 1983. He did pretty well until he was 43 or 44. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) He's only had an OPS+ of above 100 once. None of his offensive numbers, save stolen bases, are impressive. You put a ton of stock in advanced defensive metrics and his base stealing ability to find any value in him. He can shove that $15M up his ass. QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 04:06 PM) Great post...agree 100%. I take it you guys aren't liking Alexei Ramirez's contract from here out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) I take it you guys aren't liking Alexei Ramirez's contract from here out. I honestly thought they were talking about Alexei for a second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) I take it you guys aren't liking Alexei Ramirez's contract from here out. Except Ramirez contract is less than half of what Bourn is looking for. Even if they pick up the option for 2017, it is about $30 million less over the life of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 05:35 PM) Except Ramirez contract is less than half of what Bourn is looking for. Even if they pick up the option for 2017, it is about $30 million less over the life of the deal. And defense is arguably more important at Alexei's position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Jake Peavy was brought back. Starting pitching was not an area of weakness, besides, re-signing Jake only maintains the status quo, doesn't improve the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) Starting pitching was not an area of weakness, besides, re-signing Jake only maintains the status quo, doesn't improve the team. RH starting pitching depth is still an issue right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 05:45 PM) Starting pitching was not an area of weakness, besides, re-signing Jake only maintains the status quo, doesn't improve the team. Signing Jake vs. not signing Jake are your two scenarios, though. Signing him is clearly the better of the two scenarios, and money was spent to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) And use the extra millions to improve something else. So, the purported $4MM offer to AJ makes sense. If he signs (doubtful), it's most likely a bargain and only for one year. If he signs elsewhere, the little money saved (based on the $4MM offer only) can be used to improve another weak area. I think the only way AJ signs for 1 year here or elsewhere will be for at least $7MM. I imagine, however, someone offers him a 2-year contract. I'm torn, but I'm beginning to lean towards wanting to see what Flowers can do. I think he has the potential to be a decent hitter with a lot of power. If he can hit .250+ with 20+ HRs and play good defense, he'd be fine as the starting catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 True! Unfortunately, the Tigers will be better with Torii Hunter and a healthy Victor Martinez, and the Royals have vastly improved. The Sox...not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) He might also strike out 4 times more. But if he hits twice as many home runs and draws twice as many walks, I can care less. Let's see how Flowers offensive and defensive performance hold up after he gets banged up and worn down from catching every day. That's what a lot of people don't seem to appreciate about AJ's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) Let's see how Flowers offensive and defensive performance hold up after he gets banged up and worn down from catching every day. That's what a lot of people don't seem to appreciate about AJ's game. I think everyone has greatly apprciated what AJ Pierzynski has done for the White Sox franchise day in and day out for 8 seasons. I think we also believe that it's time to move on and to begin developing a young catcher. AJ can't stick around forever and now's as good a time as there ever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 05:02 PM) Let's see how Flowers offensive and defensive performance hold up after he gets banged up and worn down from catching every day. That's what a lot of people don't seem to appreciate about AJ's game. Worth noting...Tyler has caught 100, 120, 120, 140, and 110 games for the last 5 seasons. Some of those games were probably subbing in late for AJ after a callup...but he's been behind the plate for a reasonable number of games each year if you count the minors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 11:05 PM) I think everyone has greatly apprciated what AJ Pierzynski has done for the White Sox franchise day in and day out for 8 seasons. I think we also believe that it's time to move on and to begin developing a young catcher. AJ can't stick around forever and now's as good a time as there ever will be. e I am certain some agree with your argument but what I think we need to remmeber is Flowers has been here awhile both in the minor and major league level and has been streaky at best with the bat. Defensively he isn't bad and apparently pitchers like his game calling. But, AJP is a proven veteran and this idea of -let's move on - doesn't make much sense. Why move on from a proven commodity? I think you keep that player and worry about areas that really need to be tended to. But. it is what it is with Sox thinking and if we don't bring back AJ there is nothing we can do about it Edited December 19, 2012 by elrockinMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) True! Unfortunately, the Tigers will be better with Torii Hunter and a healthy Victor Martinez, and the Royals have vastly improved. The Sox...not so much. one would probably say getting a healthy John Danks back is a huge improvement in the rotation. Also, the Sox arent done, you can bank on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I swear to God if AJ doesn't sign somewhere soon I'm going to flip. This thread has been going on far too long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) True! Unfortunately, the Tigers will be better with Torii Hunter and a healthy Victor Martinez, and the Royals have vastly improved. The Sox...not so much. The Tigers actually have money to spend because they sold out their ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) And defense is arguably more important at Alexei's position And shortstop is arguably a harder position to fill. Also, Ramirez's contract was based on a higher level of offensive production than we got from him last season. If next year he has another 2012 type season with the bat, then that contract will start looking much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:07 PM) The Tigers actually have money to spend because they sold out their ballpark. Well this isn't true. The Tigers have money to spend because of their rich owner. They actually receive money from MLB's revenue-sharing program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:42 PM) Well this isn't true. The Tigers have money to spend because of their rich owner. They actually receive money from MLB's revenue-sharing program. Right. Attendance has nothing to do with payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 rock, but are the moves the sox make are for this year or for the next three years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:42 PM) Well this isn't true. The Tigers have money to spend because of their rich owner. They actually receive money from MLB's revenue-sharing program. Bs on the revenue sharing. All the tigers get is their slice of the internet,tv, and merchandise money. Same size slice that the sox got. Tigers have drawn well since 2006. And they have a decent tv deal. Hell, the tigers gave GM the centerield ad space in 2009 for FREE when GM was in the dumps. If they were on revenue sharing i doubt they would have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:07 PM) The Tigers actually have money to spend because they sold out their ballpark. QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:42 PM) Well this isn't true. The Tigers have money to spend because of their rich owner. They actually receive money from MLB's revenue-sharing program. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 08:00 PM) Right. Attendance has nothing to do with payroll. Right, because that's what I said. However, I'm sure attendance is the reason the Tigers can spend more than their revenues over the past few years and have been able to sign guys like Fielder, Martinez, & Hunter while the Sox haven't. Definitely not because of the owner who is willing to put in more than he gets back or the revenue-sharing advantage they have over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 10:14 PM) Bs on the revenue sharing. All the tigers get is their slice of the internet,tv, and merchandise money. Same size slice that the sox got. Tigers have drawn well since 2006. And they have a decent tv deal. Hell, the tigers gave GM the centerield ad space in 2009 for FREE when GM was in the dumps. If they were on revenue sharing i doubt they would have done that. There is supplemental revenue sharing apart from what you are thinking about. See page 222 of the current cba. The White Sox had to contribute money to this revenue sharing last season and will be one of 11 teams contributing again in 2013. The Tigers were recipients in 2012, and will be again in 2013, albeit a lower percentage. Edited December 20, 2012 by 3E8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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