Marty34 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 07:09 PM) I don't know about you, but the name Scott Feldman screams "track record" to me. Feldman went for $6M last offseason ~3x what Paulino went for this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 07:03 PM) It's not about name value it's about track record and Paulino's track record is going to severely limit any return they may get for him. That's in a BEST case scenario. I disagree. If he is throwing well and showing he is healthy, he will have good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Well, that's the other side of Paulino. He doesn't have the wear and tear on his arm from an elevated workload the last two seasons, so there's at least a 50/50 chance he can be productive. Paulino or Belisario are both potentially high reward situations that can easily pay off in adding more young assets for the rebuild, just like we flipped Reed for Davidson. Even Boggs. Edited February 25, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 07:09 PM) Who exactly said he IS going to be great? I think you are making stuff up and twisting people's words again. I don't make up anything, and don't twist words. The fact is Paulino is 31, hasn't thrown a pitch in a major league game since Paul Konerko had an 1.100 OPS and anyone thinking he will make career highs in starts and innings and be better than he ever has been before, isn't using reality coming up with those thoughts. Edited February 25, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Like a few other pitchers, he was really, really bad with the Rockies a couple of years ago, and they cut him mid-season. Now, he surfaces with White Sox. Maybe he was hurt. Still, I don't get the signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 07:32 PM) I don't make up anything, and don't twist words. The fact is Paulino is 31, hasn't thrown a pitch in a major league game since Paul Konerko had an 1.100 OPS and anyone thinking he will make career highs in starts and innings and be better than he ever has been before, isn't using reality coming up with those thoughts. So who said he is going to be great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 07:16 PM) Feldman went for $6M last offseason ~3x what Paulino went for this offseason. So now contracts matter? Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 08:32 PM) I don't make up anything, and don't twist words. The fact is Paulino is 31, hasn't thrown a pitch in a major league game since Paul Konerko had an 1.100 OPS and anyone thinking he will make career highs in starts and innings and be better than he ever has been before, isn't using reality coming up with those thoughts. He may or may not, DA. It's a shot in the dark. The Sox believe he hasn't reached his upside and they are not insane to think so. He's never even managed to pitch a full season because of injuries. No one knows what a healthy season looks like from him, but I'll trust the professionals to evaluate his health and potential before I'd trust you or anyone else here. And if the Sox want to risk one ninetieth or whatever of their payroll because they think he might be a good trade chip, then what the hell is the downside? I'd be livid if they gave him a huge contract, but they didn't. It's not even a SIGNIFICANT contract. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 08:13 PM) Many posters here think it's a win if a player outperforms their contract regardless of whether the team is any better. There's something wrong with an acquisition when the best thing that can be said is if he is awful it doesn't hurt the rebuild. Low reward move that in the end does nothing. Marty, you're ignoring posts again. You're the only one that believes "the best thing that can happen is if he's awful he wont hurt the rebuild." Stop pretending five people haven't explained that AND given an example of the best case scenario that happened within the last two years. If you think teams acquire players based on track record and NOT on potential, you haven't been paying attention to ANYTHING that's happened around baseball the past five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Does this debate have to enter EVERY SINGLE THREAD?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 10:36 PM) Does this debate have to enter EVERY SINGLE THREAD?! Seriously, right! Santana has nothing to do with Paulino and Rienzo dueling for a starting rotation spot. Because people keep bringing up Santana throughout multiple threads tells me they are simply looking for attention and know that mentioning Sanatana's name will get them the attention they seek. With the new acquisitions this off season you would think a few posters would be willing to talk more about those players instead of a player who isn't even on the team. Whine,whine, whine, Boohoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 25, 2014 -> 12:37 AM) I'm guessing that's not licensed by MLB and/or the Blue Jays, lol. Nobody thought Loiaza would do anything for us...Humber for nearly a full season....or that Bartolo Colon would be pitching this well into his late 30's/early 40's at his weight and conditioning level. It's a negligible risk on Paulino and Boggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 25, 2014 -> 01:39 AM) It's a negligible risk on Paulino and Boggs. This is the point. I'm (the) one who thinks Paulino will pitch really well this year, but I can't assume he'll stay healthy. I do think he is going to pitch very well. I've said I think the odds are just as good that he pitches as well as Jimenez and/or Santana. I have cited the last several starts Paulino has made, but they've come over a 3 year period due to injuries. I think he is a very good pitcher who has been injury prone. If he avoids the DL - that is no small 'if' - I think he can and will be the Sox 3rd best starter this year. If Paulino gets hurt or Boggs bombs, you DFA them or don't bring them back next year. It's a drop in the bucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Paulino essentially has a two year deal if he performs, I would expect him to stay with the Sox and either be dealt this off-season or at the deadline next season. Not many teams will trade for Paulino for the stretch run this season given the wall he will likely hit when his innings accrue. Boggs or Lindstrom are the pitchers that are most likely moved at the deadline this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Lindstrom doesn't exactly have what I would call a bargain contract. You could easily see someone like Belisario emerging as the closer if Jones flops and ending up as a nice chip on the trade market as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 25, 2014 -> 09:37 PM) Speaking of, has he reported yet? Does not appear that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 08:53 PM) So now contracts matter? Strange. Yes, when a player is a free agent it's a good tool to judge how much demand there is for his services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 24, 2014 -> 09:50 PM) Marty, you're ignoring posts again. You're the only one that believes "the best thing that can happen is if he's awful he wont hurt the rebuild." Stop pretending five people haven't explained that AND given an example of the best case scenario that happened within the last two years. If you think teams acquire players based on track record and NOT on potential, you haven't been paying attention to ANYTHING that's happened around baseball the past five years. Would you take Arrieta and Strope or Avisail Garcia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 12:19 PM) Would you take Arrieta and Strope or Avisail Garcia? Garcia. Please explain the relevance of this random question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Garcia. Please explain the relevance of this random question. Feldman was pitching better than Peavy at the time each was traded, yet Peavy brought the better return. Track record does matter.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Feldman was pitching better than Peavy at the time each was traded, yet Peavy brought the better return. Track record does matter.. Peavy was also locked into an extra year of his contract to, which in this day an age, also has a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Peavy was also locked into an extra year of his contract to, which in this day an age, also has a price. Right, a team friendly contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 12:42 PM) Right, a team friendly contract. Like Felipe Paulino does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Peavy was also locked into an extra year of his contract to, which in this day an age, also has a price. I'm sure if Baltimore wanted to extend Feldman at what Peavy is getting paid for 2014, they would not have had a problem. Track record is a huge part of determining future performance. Edited February 26, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 26, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Peavy was also locked into an extra year of his contract to, which in this day an age, also has a price. Peavy also had a track record of producing at a high level were Feldmans performance was more of an anomaly. Peavy will also likely bring back draft pick compensation, something Feldman was ineligible for due to a trade in the final season of his deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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