fathom Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 03:50 PM) Randy Johnson, the ultimate player. pitch the opening game of the playoff, came in several days later to pitch in relief when his team had the lead and started 2 days later, this last part i think is true. he was putting everything on the line for the playoff. i even think as a joke he said that he would have played a position, if the team needed him to. He also came in to get Lou to fly out to the warning track (hell of a catch by Griffey Jr.) in the 9th inning of Game 163 at the TwinkieDome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) True. He also had the ability and mental makeup to do it. This is why he is an HOF. Not all players have all of these attributes. But the HOF to really good ones do. and that is why i, most of the time, blame the players and not the coaches. look at Jose Valentin when he was with the sox, he was the leader of the team, minny in their new stadium were making fun of a player, he Jose V was up, he hit something like 6 straight foul pitches into their dugout. they were scrambling out of the dugout. the next series, they had something in front of both dugouts to so - call protect the players. Jose A is a silent leader, this team needs a vocal leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kageman129 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 10:12 AM) Calling him up and having him hit clean up as a rookie, being the first rookie to do it for the Cubs in 74 years isn't pressure? I think his whole point about Bryant pinch hitting and doing a squeeze bunt was that its something he probably isn't comfortable with/doesn't have much or any experience doing, much like Rodon coming in to be a relief pitcher when he hasn't been one at a professional level. I don't think that he mentioned anything about Bryant's situation not being a pressure one, just a situation that person isn't familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (shysocks @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 09:45 AM) Seems to me Robin had two equally valid yet problematic options. The real problem is that the Sox scored fewer than three runs for the 7th time in 13 games. Every decision gets magnified when that is happening. I am not a fan of Robin, but come on guys - not everything is his fault. very true, and so depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 10:00 AM) He also came in to get Lou to fly out to the warning track (hell of a catch by Griffey Jr.) in the 9th inning of Game 163 at the TwinkieDome Poor Lou. Luckily, Billy still gave him the OK to marry his Mom. What a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (KG#1 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 10:05 AM) I think his whole point about Bryant pinch hitting and doing a squeeze bunt was that its something he probably isn't comfortable with/doesn't have much or any experience doing, much like Rodon coming in to be a relief pitcher when he hasn't been one at a professional level. I don't think that he mentioned anything about Bryant's situation not being a pressure one, just a situation that person isn't familiar with. Rodon did appear as a reliever for 3 of his 9 appearances in the minors last year, and 1 of his 6 times out this spring. He also made a relief appearance as a freshman in college. While it isn't a lot, is inaccurate to say "never". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 03:18 PM) Rodon did appear as a reliever for 3 of his 9 appearances in the minors last year, and 1 of his 6 times out this spring. He also made a relief appearance as a freshman in college. While it isn't a lot, is inaccurate to say "never". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 03:12 PM) Poor Lou. Luckily, Billy still gave him the OK to marry his Mom. What a season. Haha, well said. Ken Griffey Jr. is the best defensive player in Game 163 history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kageman129 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:18 AM) Rodon did appear as a reliever for 3 of his 9 appearances in the minors last year, and 1 of his 6 times out this spring. He also made a relief appearance as a freshman in college. While it isn't a lot, is inaccurate to say "never". Alright, I didn't bother to look up the stats, just wanted to point out the Bryant situation that you pointed out and that Condor mentioned were completely different things. So Rodon has experience, but maybe its just a situation he isn't comfortable with. A buddy of mine is friends with Duane Below (former Tiger player), he said Below absolutely hated pitching in relief because he was used to being a starter. Just something Rodon needs to get used to until they make him a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (KG#1 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 04:37 PM) Alright, I didn't bother to look up the stats, just wanted to point out the Bryant situation that you pointed out and that Condor mentioned were completely different things. So Rodon has experience, but maybe its just a situation he isn't comfortable with. A buddy of mine is friends with Duane Below (former Tiger player), he said Below absolutely hated pitching in relief because he was used to being a starter. Just something Rodon needs to get used to until they make him a starter. in the old days, to a certain date, who knows what that date was, pitchers didn't like the RP status. it meant that they didn't have the skills or talent to be a starter. now, the preparation is much different now than before. pitchers has a huge mindset and have to prepare for the rigors of the 2 different pitching situation. starter vs rp. that is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (KG#1 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) Alright, I didn't bother to look up the stats, just wanted to point out the Bryant situation that you pointed out and that Condor mentioned were completely different things. So Rodon has experience, but maybe its just a situation he isn't comfortable with. A buddy of mine is friends with Duane Below (former Tiger player), he said Below absolutely hated pitching in relief because he was used to being a starter. Just something Rodon needs to get used to until they make him a starter. Rodon isn't complaining about relieving. Neither is his agent. In fact, Boras complimented the White Sox on their plan. Of course Carlos Rodon is no Duane Below. Duane Below should be happy to get into a major league game any way the team wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 03:46 PM) Rodon isn't complaining about relieving. Neither is his agent. In fact, Boras complimented the White Sox on their plan. Of course Carlos Rodon is no Duane Below. Duane Below should be happy to get into a major league game any way the team wants. ouch... that was harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'm not concerned one bit. Sale's first relief appearance was also wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kageman129 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:46 AM) Rodon isn't complaining about relieving. Neither is his agent. In fact, Boras complimented the White Sox on their plan. Of course Carlos Rodon is no Duane Below. Duane Below should be happy to get into a major league game any way the team wants. Well of course Rodon isn't complaining to the media, he might complain to family/friends, but he isn't going to openly say something like that. And the plan is a good one, just one he may have to adjust to. And my defense was not that Below is good... I just know that a pitcher who used to being a starter was turned into a reliever and didn't like it. I'm sure he adjusted but at first he didn't like it. And you are right, he should be happy to get into the majors again and he probably wouldn't care how he got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (KG#1 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 10:55 AM) Well of course Rodon isn't complaining to the media, he might complain to family/friends, but he isn't going to openly say something like that. And the plan is a good one, just one he may have to adjust to. And my defense was not that Below is good... I just know that a pitcher who used to being a starter was turned into a reliever and didn't like it. I'm sure he adjusted but at first he didn't like it. And you are right, he should be happy to get into the majors again and he probably wouldn't care how he got there. I doubt he is complaining to family and friends. He has an innings issue, and this is a way to address it. He also knows major league jobs are precious, and would rather be in a major league bullpen than starting in Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (KG#1 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 10:55 AM) Well of course Rodon isn't complaining to the media, he might complain to family/friends, but he isn't going to openly say something like that. And the plan is a good one, just one he may have to adjust to. And my defense was not that Below is good... I just know that a pitcher who used to being a starter was turned into a reliever and didn't like it. I'm sure he adjusted but at first he didn't like it. And you are right, he should be happy to get into the majors again and he probably wouldn't care how he got there. All pitchers have a preference. The question is do they have the talent and the mental capabilities to adjust to the different roles. Many average pitchers do not. The really good ones do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor13 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Sale went from 71 IP to 192 (29 starts). I personally believe the innings cap is total bulls*** and is irrelevant. Pitchers can go from 130 to 190-200 without risk to injury or dead arm. The organization and others (I feel) just use the innings cap thing as an excuse for their situations. They are chicken to throw him out their now bc IF he gets injured people will point to how others have used innings caps to prevent injuries. When in fact the injuries are complete freaks of nature. I think that the Sox just are to scared that Rodon may not live of to the hype or might get injured. The problem is, if he is truly better then Danks and Noesi ( I think he is better then Q now as well but Q will turn it around) then he should be pitching in the rotation. There is no point to insert him into the rotation when we are 10+ games out of first, other then to gain experience. Edited April 22, 2015 by Condor13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 He got mlb experience. Sometimes it can difficult to balance winning and trying to help a guy progress, especially a pitcher because if a hitter goes 0-4 with 4 k's, its not necessarily a loss, but if the pitcher does bad it probably is. Thats just the reality of baseball. So they put Rondon in a position where at worst if he doesnt succeed the loss "wasnt his fault." I am not sure what everyone's expectations are this year, but for the long term its better that Rondon gets experience now. Cause the only way to get comfortable being in the majors is to actually be in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Condor13 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:51 AM) Sale went from 71 IP to 192 (29 starts). I personally believe the innings cap is total bulls*** and is irrelevant. Pitchers can go from 130 to 190-200 without risk to injury or dead arm. The organization and others (I feel) just use the innings cap thing as an excuse for their situations. They are chicken to throw him out their now bc IF he gets injured people will point to how others have used innings caps to prevent injuries. When in fact the injuries are complete freaks of nature. I think that the Sox just are to scared that Rodon may not live of to the hype or might get injured. The problem is, if he is truly better then Danks and Noesi ( I think he is better then Q as well but Q now but he will turn it around) then he should be pitching in the rotation. There is no point to insert him into the rotation when we are 10+ games out of first, other then to gain experience. The innings cap needs to be there for physical health reason. You can believe what you want but you are risking the health of the pitcher. The 71 innings doesn't include the number of side sessions and getting up and down as relievers do. The key to that year was he had 58 appearances. With that much work it off sets the low numbers of innings. Rodon has not had any of this and has not pitched that many innings in a season. He has not pitched an entire MLB season in any role. Hitters who have not played an entire 162 game schedule get fatigued at the end of the season. Overuse injuries to pitchers are not complete freaks of nature. Some are you cannot predict all of them. However, you can do many things to decrease the chances of them occurring. There is a reason the Sox have consistently had one of the lowest injury rates to pitchers over the last decade. If you feel you know more than the Sox and the organizations you mentioned than more power to you. From my perspective of dealing with MLB pitchers, I don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) After sleeping on it I don't think it was the worst decision in the world but I still don't think it was a good one. I saw that Hector's velocity was dropping but at the same time it's Brandon freaking Moss. Dude's bat is slowwwwwwwwwwwww. Yea it was the 3rd time through the lineup but I don't think Noesi would have had a problem with him. Hector was pitching fairly well off his two pitches and I'm pretty sure he could have handled Moss there. That said, if Carlos is on the roster this is pretty much the exact situation he's supposed to helping with (relatively high leverage LOOGY spots) so I can't fault Ventura for going to him -- with this one big caveat -- and that is that you're asking an awful lot of a 22 year kid that doesn't have a much experience as a reliever in that spot. IMO, a really smart manager would have talked to both Duke and Rodon prior to the game about this exact situation and asked if Duke would feel good about pitching earlier than the 7th or 8th if it so happened. And of course they had a very high leverage LOOGY situation early and had to throw a kid to the sharks. There are clubs that make things happen and clubs that things seem to happen to -- right now the Sox are the latter and it's not a good look. Edited April 22, 2015 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor13 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) The innings cap needs to be there for physical health reason. You can believe what you want but you are risking the health of the pitcher. The 71 innings doesn't include the number of side sessions and getting up and down as relievers do. The key to that year was he had 58 appearances. With that much work it off sets the low numbers of innings. Rodon has not had any of this and has not pitched that many innings in a season. He has not pitched an entire MLB season in any role. Hitters who have not played an entire 162 game schedule get fatigued at the end of the season. Overuse injuries to pitchers are not complete freaks of nature. Some are you cannot predict all of them. However, you can do many things to decrease the chances of them occurring. There is a reason the Sox have consistently had one of the lowest injury rates to pitchers over the last decade. If you feel you know more than the Sox and the organizations you mentioned than more power to you. From my perspective of dealing with MLB pitchers, I don't agree. Could that be the reason the Sox have been one of the worst organizations in the last 10 years? Just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Condor13 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 11:51 AM) Sale went from 71 IP to 192 (29 starts). I personally believe the innings cap is total bulls*** and is irrelevant. Pitchers can go from 130 to 190-200 without risk to injury or dead arm. The organization and others (I feel) just use the innings cap thing as an excuse for their situations. They are chicken to throw him out their now bc IF he gets injured people will point to how others have used innings caps to prevent injuries. When in fact the injuries are complete freaks of nature. I think that the Sox just are to scared that Rodon may not live of to the hype or might get injured. The problem is, if he is truly better then Danks and Noesi ( I think he is better then Q now as well but Q will turn it around) then he should be pitching in the rotation. There is no point to insert him into the rotation when we are 10+ games out of first, other then to gain experience. All I am going to say is that the run of pitchers health the White Sox have had is more than coincidence. I am going to trust what they are doing, because they have a record that nobody else in baseball has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom4789 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Is this thread about Carlos Rodon, or is it about robin ventura and kris bryant. It was his first appearance in major league baseball so he was obviously amped up and had no control. You can either coddle him like a baby or throw him into game situations right away. The way some of you are making such a big deal about the situation he was put in is unreal. Would you have been happy if maybe they waited till an interleague game and have him face a pitcher who has two strikes on him already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 QUOTE (Condor13 @ Apr 22, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) Could that be the reason the Sox have been one of the worst organizations in the last 10 years? Just something to think about. Wait, because they have one of the lowest injury rates is why they have been one of the worst organizations over the last 10 years? It hurts me to try to make sense of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Scott Merkin @scottmerkin 56m56 minutes ago Rodon obviously is not available today and Coop doesn't envision back to backs for him. Scott Merkin @scottmerkin 56m56 minutes ago Coop on pitching: "It’s not easy. Pitching is not easy. If it was easy, you guys would be doing it." Scott Merkin @scottmerkin 1h1 hour ago Rodon: "Bases loaded, no outs. Second and third, no outs. Big hitter up. That’s a situation I have to be ready for." Scot Gregor @scotgregor 1h1 hour ago #WhiteSox pitching coach Don Cooper on Rodon debut: Give him a mulligan. Wasn't finishing pitches; standing straight up after release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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