"The White Sox, Black Holes, and Trading Quintana

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I just don't see us trading Q to the Cubs only to see him help them win. I could see EJ and Montas for hitting prospects.

[elrockinMT]

we can win it all in 2016 with the team we have

[LDF]

we can win it all in 2016 with the team we have

 

i see you still may be hitting that bottle pretty hard.

[Chicago White Sox]

we can win it all in 2016 with the team we have

Lol..no we can't. I appreciate the optimism, but saying no changes are necessary is border-lining on insanity.

[Jose Abreu]

No idea. The two teams I've been told the Cubs have spoken to specifically are the Indians and the White Sox. https://t.co/lZXrenKF5p https://twitter.com/JulieDiCaro/status/667062207369388032

 

@JulieDiCaro @jgaepi so the White Sox have talked to the cubs about Baez and/or Soler? https://twitter.com/whisox05/status/667066288280240128

 

@whisox05 @jgaepi Don't know what names were discussed on the Cubs end. The discussions were about pitching. Assume Quintana was the target.

https://twitter.com/JulieDiCaro/status/667106773996843009

 

Ran across the tweet. I tweeted her and she replied back.

Interesting... maybe we talked Quintana/Schwarber?

[Baron]

Interesting... maybe we talked Quintana/Schwarber?

 

That's who I would want. They can keep Baez.

[Balta1701]

That's who I would want. They can keep Baez.

Baez is a guy I wouldn't mind the White Sox gamble on - I like the idea of piling up guys who have talent but who have had major issues in the past to see if they can turn things around. That's one way to fix the mess fairly quickly - find a guy another team gives up on that turns his career around. However, I'd look at him that way - nothing more than a low value gamble, whereas I think they'd still like to get substantial value for him.

[Baron]

Baez is a guy I wouldn't mind the White Sox gamble on - I like the idea of piling up guys who have talent but who have had major issues in the past to see if they can turn things around. That's one way to fix the mess fairly quickly - find a guy another team gives up on that turns his career around. However, I'd look at him that way - nothing more than a low value gamble, whereas I think they'd still like to get substantial value for him.

 

 

That's fair. But I'm not sure the Cubs view his value as a low level gamble. Not yet atleast. Give him time to accumulate those strikeout numbers then maybe.

[OmarComing25]

Baez is a guy I wouldn't mind the White Sox gamble on - I like the idea of piling up guys who have talent but who have had major issues in the past to see if they can turn things around. That's one way to fix the mess fairly quickly - find a guy another team gives up on that turns his career around. However, I'd look at him that way - nothing more than a low value gamble, whereas I think they'd still like to get substantial value for him.

I wouldn't mind a Baez gamble either, but not as a centerpiece to a Quintana trade, no thank you.

 

Also for those who want Schwarber, Quintana should not be traded for a DH projected at 2 WAR and with whom we would still royally suck against LHP. Maybe if other pieces came with Schwarber, but I feel like the Cubs would push for a 1-to-1 swap.

[TheFutureIsNear]

If we are trading Q we need BOTH quantity and quality. We need way more than 1 hitter so a 1 for 1 swap does nothing for us. Minimum 2 everyday position players that are capable of playing next year would have to be included.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd actually be fine with that deal haha I'm the one who's suggested Villanueva a few times on here. (This was in regards to Villanueva Vogelbach for Johnson offer).

 

But I would think the Cubs would be more likely to just call up Pierce Johnson who honestly looks good himself judging by minor league numbers.

Edited November 19, 2015 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I don't support this because given Quintana's below-market contract, I think the Sox would lose value in any trade that doesn't also involve players on below-market contracts.

 

You can shuffle wins from SP to 3B or whatever, but that position player is likely going to consume more financial resources than Quintana would, thus making it harder to fill the void that still exists because you just created it by moving Quintana.

 

Before anyone says, "THAT'S WHY YOU ASK FOR EVERY TEAM'S TWO BEST PLAYERS AND BEST PROSPECTS QUINTANA IS WORTH MROE THAN SALE TBH," everyone would be in favor of trading Quintana for some stupid, lopsided, fire-able overpay, but that's not realistically going to happen, so it doesn't belong in a logical discussion. If that boons falls into our laps, fine, but that can't be a part of "the plan."

 

Why isn't it likely ?? The Rangers paid a boatload for a Hamels and like the article says he's older , more expensive and may be on the downside of his career , whereas Q is all kinds of good and young , cheap with possibly awesome years ahead of him especially if he pitched in the NL. The A's paid a lot for Samardzija and the Sox gave up 4 players for 1 year of Samardzija. The Red Sox gave up talent for a top flight relief pitcher for heavens sake. Is Q not more valuable than Kimbrel ?

 

Everybody wants pitching and who looks as good and as affordable as Q ? Damn it, it IS possible to get some really good pieces for Q , maybe even probable . I'd really hate seeing him go. I was on the Q bandwagon when it seems like half the board thought he was doing it with smoke and mirrors.

 

All these scrubs have got to go. Gimme some top 50 and top 100 prospects or a real major leaguer or 2. . Yea it sucks that it has to come to this but watcha gonna do when you got no real positional talent in the minors and you're only real bargaining chips are pitchers ?

[Chicago White Sox]

I wouldn't mind a Baez gamble either, but not as a centerpiece to a Quintana trade, no thank you.

 

Also for those who want Schwarber, Quintana should not be traded for a DH projected at 2 WAR and with whom we would still royally suck against LHP. Maybe if other pieces came with Schwarber, but I feel like the Cubs would push for a 1-to-1 swap.

100% agree. I still think a Quintana for Schwarber & Baez trades makes sense for both teams. Don't think it will happen though.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If we are making a trade with the Cubs for Quintana, I want Soler and Gleyber Torres.

 

or Soler, Happ, and Willson Contreras.

 

It's a steep price, but Quintana makes their rotation extremely dangerous, and the only contributor to their near future they lose is Soler.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

100% agree. I still think a Quintana for Schwarber & Baez trades makes sense for both teams. Don't think it will happen though.

 

I don't understand the obsession with Schwarber. Right, I get it, he has a thunderous bat. But he is also a DH. And he is going to be figured out by pitchers. Look at his numbers as the season went on, month by month....

 

June - .364 AVG, .982 OPS

July - .302 AVG, .900 OPS

August - .221 AVG, .861 OPS

Sept/Oct - .208 AVG, .741 OPS

 

He started to get HR happy and his average plummeted. He is a right-handed Mark Trumbo.

[LDF]

I don't understand the obsession with Schwarber. Right, I get it, he has a thunderous bat. But he is also a DH. And he is going to be figured out by pitchers. Look at his numbers as the season went on, month by month....

 

June - .364 AVG, .982 OPS

July - .302 AVG, .900 OPS

August - .221 AVG, .861 OPS

Sept/Oct - .208 AVG, .741 OPS

 

He started to get HR happy and his average plummeted. He is a right-handed Mark Trumbo.

 

excellent comparison .

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't understand the obsession with Schwarber. Right, I get it, he has a thunderous bat. But he is also a DH. And he is going to be figured out by pitchers. Look at his numbers as the season went on, month by month....

 

June - .364 AVG, .982 OPS

July - .302 AVG, .900 OPS

August - .221 AVG, .861 OPS

Sept/Oct - .208 AVG, .741 OPS

 

He started to get HR happy and his average plummeted. He is a right-handed Mark Trumbo.

I think it's a bit crazy to call him a "right-handed Mark Trumbo" because his numbers declined over the course of his rookie season. Like all young players, he'll need to make adjustments, but the power & on-base skills are legit. He has a chance to be one of the best hitters in baseball, something our system doesn't currently have in the pipeline.

 

What I don't get is the love for Jorge Soler. Dude put up Avi-like numbers last year, is a horrible defender (poor instincts), and is made of glass. If he's the centerpiece of a Quintana trade, you're very likely going to be on the losing end of the deal.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think it's a bit crazy to call him a "right-handed Mark Trumbo" because his numbers declined over the course of his rookie season. Like all young players, he'll need to make adjustments, but the power & on-base skills are legit. He has a chance to be one of the best hitters in baseball, something our system doesn't currently have in the pipeline.

 

What I don't get is the love for Jorge Soler. Dude put up Avi-like numbers last year, is a horrible defender (poor instincts), and is made of glass. If he's the centerpiece of a Quintana trade, you're very likely going to be on the losing end of the deal.

 

 

Agree with this. Schwarber, Torres, and Contreras for Quintana is a deal I'd make. Cubs and Sox aren't trading with each other though.

[GreenSox]

I just don't see a match with the Cubs. Soler was terrible last year, Baez is risky, Schwarber has no position. Need 2 ML ready players + prospects for Quintana and not filler types.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

If we're trading Quintana to the Cubs, Schwarber plus a prospect better be coming back. And not that the Cubs would do it, but if they did call on Quintana my first reaction would be to ask for Bryant.

[Chicago White Sox]

Agree with this. Schwarber, Torres, and Contreras for Quintana is a deal I'd make. Cubs and Sox aren't trading with each other though.

I'd do that deal as well. I agree though, don't see a trade between us and the Cubs.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I think it's a bit crazy to call him a "right-handed Mark Trumbo" because his numbers declined over the course of his rookie season. Like all young players, he'll need to make adjustments, but the power & on-base skills are legit. He has a chance to be one of the best hitters in baseball, something our system doesn't currently have in the pipeline.

 

What I don't get is the love for Jorge Soler. Dude put up Avi-like numbers last year, is a horrible defender (poor instincts), and is made of glass. If he's the centerpiece of a Quintana trade, you're very likely going to be on the losing end of the deal.

 

 

While Jorge Soler carries the biggest name in that group, realize that Gleyber Torres is their #1 prospect, and Contreras is probably top 3 or 4. It's not Soler + a couple of random guys. It's actually a very strong return if you are willing to concede that Soler isn't a bust after 120 major league games.

 

And I will disagree wholeheartedly with Schwarber having a chance to be the best hitter in baseball. I don't imagine anything close to that.

 

[3GamesToLove]

He is a right-handed Mark Trumbo.

 

I think it's a bit crazy to call him a "right-handed Mark Trumbo" because his numbers declined over the course of his rookie season.

 

Also, there is the fact that Mark Trumbo is already a right-handed Mark Trumbo, and Schwarber is left-handed.

[Eminor3rd]

Also, there is the fact that Mark Trumbo is already a right-handed Mark Trumbo, and Schwarber is left-handed.

 

 

Never skirt the REAL issue

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I wanted to post this in the offseason plan thread, but it got closed for some reason, so I'll post it here instead.

 

Here is my plan for the offseason.

 

• Trade Avisail Garcia for Billy Hamilton

• Trade Jose Quintana and Adam LaRoche for Yasiel Puig, Scott Van Slyke, and Austin Barnes

• Trade Chris Beck and Tyler Danish for Jurickson Profar

• Sign David Freese to a 3 year/$30 million deal

• Sign Doug Fister to a 1 year/$5 million deal

 

Lineup:

LF - Adam Eaton (L)

DH - Melky Cabrera (S)

1B - Jose Abreu ®

RF - Yasiel Puig ®

3B - David Freese ®

SS - Jurickson Profar (S)

2B - Carlos Sanchez (S)

C - Tyler Flowers ®

CF - Billy Hamilton (S)

 

Bench:

3B and SS - Tyler Saladino ®

OF - J.B. Shuck (L)

C - Austin Barnes ®

1B and OF - Scott Van Slyke ®

2B - Micah Johnson (L)

 

Rotation:

SP - Chris Sale (L)

SP - Carlos Rodon (L)

SP - Erik Johnson ®

SP - John Danks (L) (He's a placeholder for Carson Fulmer)

SP - Doug Fister ®

 

Bullpen -

RP - Dan Jennings (L)

RP - Zach Duke (L)

RP - Zach Putnam ®

RP - Jake Petricka ®

SU - Nate Jones ®

CL - David Robertson ®

 

Although this plan weakens the rotation by losing Quintana, it improves the team in several other areas, including defense and versatility.

 

Lineup - While this lineup doesn't have a whole lot of pop, they do have one thing that White Sox teams haven't had in the recent past - speed and versatility. With several switch hitters and speedsters at the top and bottom of the lineup, this lineup should be able to put pressure on opposing pitching staffs by playing small ball. Don't get me wrong, this team would struggle to hit the ball out of the yard, but contact hitters have been scarce for the Sox over the past few years, and this team would change that.

 

Defense - Taking Melky and Avi out of the outfield and replacing them with Puig and Hamilton improves the outfield defense ten-fold, as that was a huge problem last year. Freese isn't known for his defense, but he has got to be better than Gillaspie/Olt. Profar provides a lot of range up the middle, and I think that he could form a good DP combo with Sanchez. When Anderson comes up, perhaps Profar could shift over to 2nd base or maybe Anderson could become an outfielder.

 

Youth movement - Profar, Hamilton, and Barnes represent young, cheap, and high potential position players that haven't hit their stride yet at the big league level yet, but have the potential to do so. Not trading any notable young players besides Avi, Beck, and Danish ensures that the Sox keep their young talent in tact for the most part. Hopefully guys like Montas, Anderson, Fulmer, etc can contribute in 2017 and beyond, but I'm not counting on any of them to contribute much in 2016

 

Rotation - Sale and Rodon form a formidable 1-2 duo in this rotation. Starters 3-5 are question marks, but Johnson showed potential last year, not to mention his youth. Fister is a bit of an unknown, but I like him on a 1 year deal. The worst case scenario is that he bombs, and even then, it's only a 1 year deal. If he succeeds, great. Hopefully the Sox will be a spot to contend for a playoff spot, but if not, they can flip him at the deadline as a rental. Danks is purely a placeholder for Fulmer, as he will surely be gone after 2016.

 

Bullpen - This bullpen is almost exactly like the 2015 version. Robertson should provide decent value as a lockdown closer, and I expect Jones to have a nice injury-free season as the setup man. Petricka, Jennings, Putnam, and Duke can be all be very inconsistent at times, but when they're on, they're very good. The bullpen wasn't great last year, but it wasn't as bad as 2014 either. I fully expect Montas to be called up at some point and hopefully be groomed as the future closer.

 

Let me know what you think of these ideas. Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2015 by ChiSoxFanMike