Dick Allen Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) What isn't said in reply is how having Lawrie and Frazier walk in 2 years helps the White Sox "build a team". Through specifically the Frazier move the White sox said bluntly they have a 2 year window before a major offensive piece hits FA. They need to act like that. If they weren't prepared to act like that, then they managed to make their job of "building a team" much more difficult. Isn't one of the White Sox better prospects a 3B who should be ready in a couple of years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) I agree. The thing that is funny is that whenever there's a report about another team being out (Tigers and Angels Luxury Tax Issues) everyone thinks it's total nonsense and doesn't believe it. But when someone says that the White Sox are only willing o go 3 years and low money, everyone takes it as gospel. It really is quite absurd. Yes, the organization hates all of us. They are being stupid on purpose. This place is a dumpster fire right now. But entertaining. As I said before, come here to watch a NASCAR race, lots of boring time but when there is a wreck, it's entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Looks like all teams interest in Cespedes only want him on a short deal. The first team to 5 gets him, IMO. I think if this drags out much longer, a 4 year guarantee & a 5th year option might work as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 If the front office does not acquire a clean up hitter, likely for the outfield, then I hope that they do not spend any more money, or make any moves, which would require giving up a draft pick. I'd prefer to simply go with what they have, and see how various players develop, especially Saladino at SS, Avi in the outfield, Rodon, Fullmer and E. Johnson. Hopefully, a couple of Minor Leaguers will take a significant step forward, as well. Given the poor free agent class, next year should be a good environment in which to trade established players for young, cost controlled talent. Teams needing a piece or two, are not going to be able to acquire them in the free agent pool, and will have to go the trade route. That could be an opportunity to go ahead with the "full rebuild". If they are not going to go all in, then why not? That is what many of us argue, and it seems perfectly valid. They are going to lose the little fan base they have, in any case, if they don't finish this "half assed" effort to go for it. In anticipation of next year's poor free agent talent, teams in the playoff hunt, might also be interested in trading, before this years trade deadline. In any case, the opportunities for deals should be numerous. Danks and La Roche will be off the books, Lawrie and Frazier would be good rentals for the right contenders, or could be held one more year, and offered QO's, in order to acquire still more draft picks. Who would you trade next off season, if this scenario were to come to pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 07:53 PM) The White Sox are trying to build a team, not build a team around Cespedes. As ive said a few times in this thread already, Cespedes and his demands were not realistic for the Sox in the first place so i never counted on the Sox signing him. Sure i hoped like a few others but never did see a fit. The Sox needed upgrades at 3B and 2B so they went out and traded for the best of what was available. You know as well as the rest of us that the 3B market had little to choose from. Should the Sox have signed Freese instead? Or signed an old veteran like Rollins for SS/2B? Should the Sox have not made those upgrades and rolled with Saladino at 3B, Alexei at SS and Sanchez at 2B? That recipe didn't work in '15 so the Sox had to make changes from what was available on the market and I think they did pretty damn good in their upgrades at 3B/2B. Too many fans are mentally looking at the trades of Lawrie and Frazier being based around the assumption that the Sox would or even could sign Cespedes, a player that has said since last September he was seeking 6/150. Bad assumption... excellent post and many hard questions asked. nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) Isn't one of the White Sox better prospects a 3B who should be ready in a couple of years? Yes. In one interview RH basically said that Frazier is here until Trey M. is ready. He's basically a really good stopgap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) Danks and La Roche will be off the books, Lawrie and Frazier would be good rentals for the right contenders, or could be held one more year, and offered QO's, in order to acquire still more draft picks. Who would you trade next off season, if this scenario were to come to pass? Important note - MLB will be operating under a new CBA by the time those 2 become free agents. The rules are unlikely to change for this year since the CBA won't be in force until December 1 and the QOs need to be made before that, but it seems likely that the PA is going to continue making it tougher to get draft pick compensation for players, as they've done in each of the previous CBAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 08:01 PM) It doesn't end the pursuit, just lessens the chances of Cespedes ending up here because all of the suitors for Upton are now going to be looking into Cespedes. also lets not forget another level tier 2 type of player. a very good bat. = Pedro Alvarez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) also lets not forget another level tier 2 type of player. a very good bat. = Pedro Alvarez Did you feel that Adam Dunn was a very good bat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) Yes. In one interview RH basically said that Frazier is here until Trey M. is ready. He's basically a really good stopgap. And they said Micah was the starting 2b on a team supposed to compete for the AL Central in 2015, then shipped him away and you've spent weeks telling me how the White Sox didn't give up much when they gave him up. The idea that we're projecting a 3b who hasn't even seen AA yet with so far a .720 OPS in his minor league career as a key cog in the team the last 2 years before Sale and Abreu hit free agency is ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) I guess what I don't understand is the logic that another team signing a player that was a longshot from the get go to be a White Sox totally ends the White Sox pursuit of upgrades. It's really bizarre. Agreed. Cespedes is not the only player that would upgrade the outfield so the search continues if in fact the Sox are unable to work something out with Cespedes. It's not like Cespedes is the only player that would be an upgrade over Avi/Melky, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) also lets not forget another level tier 2 type of player. a very good bat. = Pedro Alvarez LOL JFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 08:02 PM) What isn't said in reply is how having Lawrie and Frazier walk in 2 years helps the White Sox "build a team". Through specifically the Frazier move the White sox said bluntly they have a 2 year window before a major offensive piece hits FA. They need to act like that. If they weren't prepared to act like that, then they managed to make their job of "building a team" much more difficult. this is my opinion only, they are more like a stop gap kind or a bridge for when they the FO assume the minor league will start to producing viable players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 08:13 PM) Did you feel that Adam Dunn was a very good bat? that is a 2 sided question. on the first part, i thought it was an intriguing step, but i never thought it was the route to go, i really like my draft picks.... call me selfish but unless some team gives up an arm and a leg, i want the draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) that is a 2 sided question. on the first part, i thought it was an intriguing step, but i never thought it was the route to go, i really like my draft picks.... call me selfish but unless some team gives up an arm and a leg, i want the draft picks. dude, what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) Isn't one of the White Sox better prospects a 3B who should be ready in a couple of years? The kid is 19/20 in high-A, I wouldn't make any decisions based on that assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:17 PM) The kid is 19/20 in high-A, I wouldn't make any decisions based on that assumption. He is also on a quick moving path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 08:07 PM) If the front office does not acquire a clean up hitter, likely for the outfield, then I hope that they do not spend any more money, or make any moves, which would require giving up a draft pick. I'd prefer to simply go with what they have, and see how various players develop, especially Saladino at SS, Avi in the outfield, Rodon, Fullmer and E. Johnson. Hopefully, a couple of Minor Leaguers will take a significant step forward, as well. Given the poor free agent class, next year should be a good environment in which to trade established players for young, cost controlled talent. Teams needing a piece or two, are not going to be able to acquire them in the free agent pool, and will have to go the trade route. That could be an opportunity to go ahead with the "full rebuild". If they are not going to go all in, then why not? That is what many of us argue, and it seems perfectly valid. They are going to lose the little fan base they have, in any case, if they don't finish this "half assed" effort to go for it. In anticipation of next year's poor free agent talent, teams in the playoff hunt, might also be interested in trading, before this years trade deadline. In any case, the opportunities for deals should be numerous. Danks and La Roche will be off the books, Lawrie and Frazier would be good rentals for the right contenders, or could be held one more year, and offered QO's, in order to acquire still more draft picks. Who would you trade next off season, if this scenario were to come to pass? you are forgetting melky's contract unless i am misunderstanding what you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Bold prediction: this thread gets to 300 pages before Cespedes signs anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) you are forgetting melky's contract unless i am misunderstanding what you posted. He is a free agent after 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Have seen a few people today on twitter that have said the Sox have called them asking them if they are going to games this year. Most have never even be to a Sox game & are Cubs fans. Seems weird to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 08:13 PM) And they said Micah was the starting 2b on a team supposed to compete for the AL Central in 2015, then shipped him away and you've spent weeks telling me how the White Sox didn't give up much when they gave him up. The idea that we're projecting a 3b who hasn't even seen AA yet with so far a .720 OPS in his minor league career as a key cog in the team the last 2 years before Sale and Abreu hit free agency is ludicrous. and that is my problem in many of my rants, nothing is a guarantee with the minors. yeah it is a good lets see how they develop, but to arbitrarily thinking they will step in and play in the majors. that is why i want to keep investing on the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) Bold prediction: this thread gets to 300 pages before Cespedes signs anywhere. How is that bold? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) What isn't said in reply is how having Lawrie and Frazier walk in 2 years helps the White Sox "build a team". Through specifically the Frazier move the White sox said bluntly they have a 2 year window before a major offensive piece hits FA. They need to act like that. If they weren't prepared to act like that, then they managed to make their job of "building a team" much more difficult. Doesn't adding Frazier and Lawrie make this team better and more competitive over the next two years? Should the Sox have stuck with what they had last year and watch attendance continue to fall due to the same old s*** on the field? Cespedes isn't the only player capable of upgrading Avi/Melky. Correct me if I'm wrong but are you one of the fans that said relying on the free agent market to build a team is not the best way of building a team? A sentiment that I do agree with you on. Again, if I'm wrong please correct me on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 19, 2016 -> 08:14 PM) LOL JFC ok you caught my attention. what is sooo funny... is he not a very good hitter???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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