The Offense

[southsider2k5]

If we don't start scoring (which we never really did last year) then we will keep falling towards 500 and eventually be under it.

 

So wait, if we don't score more runs, we won't win much? That is a limb to go out on.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm not expecting much from this offense anymore. It's gona be what it is. Struggle to score runs. This lineup needs an impact bat ASAP. I'm thrilled to be 10-6 with this offense.

[ScootsMcGoots]

We all know the offense sucks. I am hearing a lot of people saying that it will get better...but will it really? I remember a lot of people last year saying it will, but it never did. It never even really came close to getting better. I don't know if they need a better approach up there or what. It seems like each player has been figured out by the opposing pitchers. Those averages are just horrendous...a lot of the hitters aren't even hitting .200! With Texas coming to town, if the Sox don't start hitting, then I am afraid they will get swept. I REALLY hope that is not the case, as we have Quintana, Latos and Rodon (hopefully he's put that last start behind him...basically on 10 days rest) coming up, but the Sox are going to have to start scoring at least 4 runs pretty consistently if they want to have consistent winning baseball in my opinion.

[fathom]

Bringing in no insurance in case Avi flopped was simply inexcusable. I will never understand having Sands on the roster coming out of ST instead of a lefty bat. Things will improve for this offense, but the pitching will fall back to earth as well.

[Wanne]

Bringing in no insurance in case Avi flopped was simply inexcusable. I will never understand having Sands on the roster coming out of ST instead of a lefty bat. Things will improve for this offense, but the pitching will fall back to earth as well.

 

yeah...I'm about to start the Nick Markakis bandwagon thread before the Braves have a fire sale. He's owed what?...$30-31M for 3 years or something?

[harkness99]

So wait, if we don't score more runs, we won't win much? That is a limb to go out on.

 

I'm saying I don't see a much different overall team than last year... better defense and pitching so far - but he same bad offense.

 

The "obvious statement" I made above we were lamenting all year last year.

 

It's still an issue.

Edited April 22, 2016 by harkness

[SI1020]

What's amusing... and it can be found in many places in life -but message boards are great for seeing this in action.

 

Optimism somehow equates to rational thought (this is why pyramid scams work- by catering to this false logic).

 

Rational thought exists in pessimism and optimism - but most importantly in realism.

 

Also this "mature" act of belittling those who question or complain is really often nothing more than a passive aggressive act of venting ones own frustration about losing.

I agree.

[Jake]

I think there are some real reasons to be pessimistic about the Sox offense. It's looking like they will be a bottom 10 squad on the positional side, maybe bottom 5. We need multiple guys to exceed expectations and that just isn't happening yet.

[Big Hurtin]

Well, it can't get much worse. How much better, no idea.

[southsider2k5]

I think there are some real reasons to be pessimistic about the Sox offense. It's looking like they will be a bottom 10 squad on the positional side, maybe bottom 5. We need multiple guys to exceed expectations and that just isn't happening yet.

 

Exceed? Nah. We just need the guys who are good to actually be good, and the guys who are OK to hit OK. It would be a bonus if the guys who suck could hit a step above sucky.

 

If you get historical norm seasons from Frazier, Abreu, Cabrera, Lawrie, Jackson, the catchers, and Eaton, that alone goes a long way. Add some not awful seasons from Garcia and Rollins, and the improved defense and solid pitching, and there is enough here to compete.

[southsider2k5]

We all know the offense sucks. I am hearing a lot of people saying that it will get better...but will it really? I remember a lot of people last year saying it will, but it never did. It never even really came close to getting better. I don't know if they need a better approach up there or what. It seems like each player has been figured out by the opposing pitchers. Those averages are just horrendous...a lot of the hitters aren't even hitting .200! With Texas coming to town, if the Sox don't start hitting, then I am afraid they will get swept. I REALLY hope that is not the case, as we have Quintana, Latos and Rodon (hopefully he's put that last start behind him...basically on 10 days rest) coming up, but the Sox are going to have to start scoring at least 4 runs pretty consistently if they want to have consistent winning baseball in my opinion.

 

I' d be willing to bet that we do not finish the season with a team OPS of .613, considering even last year was .686.

[Jake]

I look at something like FanGraphs's projections and they had our position players projected to be 6th from the bottom in WAR this year. That tells me we need something unexpected to happen in order to not be around that place (incidentally, it's right where we are so far). 2B is an area where a breakout would be reasonable and the projection has us getting nothing from the DH, but we could obviously hire some outside help for that position. I think LF and RF could be likely to exceed projections, but so far C is looking like a bummer. SS and CF I'm not so sure is going to meet their expectation either, but it's early.

[bmags]

Another thread was necessary

[caulfield12]

It would be a lot easier to stomach if not for:

 

1) LaRoche leaving too late in ST

2) Having Avi/Beckham/Viciedo forced on us year after year

3) If we actually had a treasure chest of minor league prospects champing at the bit for playing time

4) Missing on all those opportunities in the off-season (but hey, at least we didn't sign Jason Heyward!)

[caulfield12]

I think it was a bit of a stretch to expect "historical norms" from Jackson, the catchers and Rollins based on their performances the last two seasons.

 

Then you had the obvious uncertainty about Garcia coming into this season, even though he was "only" replacing LaRoche's terrible numbers.

 

Right there, you've got four issues out of 9.

 

Lawrie, it was/is probably not too irrational to expect some improvement at USCF...simply because one of these busted prospects has to break out every 5-10 years for the Sox.

 

That leaves Frazier, Abreu, Eaton and Cabrera that we were just hoping for their norms of the last two seasons offensively. They can get by with five hitters, but there's no way over a full season it's going to be enough to compete with KC and Detroit if you just compare.

 

 

Right now, the only thing that's really going right is the bullpen, defense is improved (especially with Jackson and Eaton in RF looking better than anyone would have envisioned) and then you have Latos and Sale basically carrying the team with Quintana consistent and Rodon still a bit unpredictable. Danks, also, isn't a surprise. The observation of the Angels' radio crew was that "he's one of those guys who everyone in the stands feels they could go up to the plate and have a chance of making contact against."

 

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

Exceed? Nah. We just need the guys who are good to actually be good, and the guys who are OK to hit OK. It would be a bonus if the guys who suck could hit a step above sucky.

 

If you get historical norm seasons from Frazier, Abreu, Cabrera, Lawrie, Jackson, the catchers, and Eaton, that alone goes a long way. Add some not awful seasons from Garcia and Rollins, and the improved defense and solid pitching, and there is enough here to compete.

What, pray tell, is the "historical norm season" of which you preach "there is enough to compete" of the:

 

- non-PED Cabrera

- unproven Lawrie

- post-2013 Jackson

- post-concussion Avila

- 37 year-old Rollins

- Avi Garcia EVER

 

[chitownsportsfan]

It really seems to me that too many of our guys are trying to pre-determine their ABs. They should be zoning in guys when they are wild but instead they are either taking with no purpose (like Jose and Avi and Avila) or swinging with no purpose (like most the lineup). You gotta hit with confidence look for your pitch and drive it.

 

I mean today, a good hitting coach should just be saying "look fastball", am I wrong? What else are you f***ing doing if you can't hit a 86 mph fastball at the MLB level? Why was anybody looking for anything but fastball out over the plate especially early in the count?

 

Just frustrating Weaver is not a good pitcher they should have lit him up 2nd time through and on.

 

_____

 

Like Danks. Danks got f***ing rocked. He got rocked almost every single time he left a pitch up and out over the zone -- which was often. Hell, it didn't even matter what he was throwing when he was behind in the count, which was almost every hitter, they were hitting him hard. You cannot tell me that Weaver had better stuff than Danks today and the Sox barely even touched him.

Edited April 22, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[chitownsportsfan]

What, pray tell, is the "historical norm season" of which you preach "there is enough to compete" of the:

 

- non-PED Cabrera

- unproven Lawrie

- post-2013 Jackson

- post-concussion Avila

- 37 year-old Rollins

- Avi Garcia EVER

 

I do not f***ing understand this one. Tyler needs to be playing more than once a week. Rollins is old, man.

[greg775]

I love Robin interview after the game when he ripped Abreu stressing to a reporter's question that he indeed right now "is a .190 hitter." He's acting like a .190 hitter, Robin said, swinging at s*** pitches. Robin is telling it like it is. Abreu knows better.

Avi meanwhile? .140. It's time for the change of scenery trade for Avi. He's officially a White sox bust.

 

Who would have thought the only thing preventing us from the WS matchup vs the Cubs (it's scary how good the Cubs are) was absolutely unacceptable hitting? Our pitching and defense looks GOOD!

 

Rollins - He's now at .217. No reason to believe he'll hit .240; too old.

Abreu - He's at .190. He'll be fine, but his lack of production is really hurting.

Frazier - He's at .206. He'll be fine.

Austin J - He's at .170 and appears to be a good field/no hit guy at this stage of his career. He really is a lousy hitter. I stress that I am not a Jackson hater tho. hater tho. At this time I give him benefit of doubt.

Avilla/Navarro - Even worse than Tyler offensively or just as bad.

 

We got problems offensively, folks.

Edited April 22, 2016 by greg775

[greg775]

How to fix things. ...

 

Never let Rollins bat second again. Got to go with Eaton, Melky, Abreu, Frazier and leave that be for a month as our top four.

Flipflop Rollins with Saladino; change their roles.

Do we have a minor league catcher who can hit .250?? If so, bring him up and have him split time with one of the Avila/Navarro tandem. Release the other guy.

Seriously though, how can anybody disagree that Eaton, Melky, Abreu, Frazier, Lawrie, Saladino as our top six wouldn't be the way to go as the top six in our lineup?? Jackson draws some walks so his .180 batting average might even be OK as No. 7. Release Avi.

Edited April 22, 2016 by greg775

[BigHurt3515]

I don't see this Rangers series going very well at all.

[harkness99]

If Robin said that I like it... if Abreu wants to truly be great he has to learn how to get counts.

[Marky Mark]

How to fix things. ...

Let me adjust this...

 

Never let Rollins bat second again.

Against RHP, stop while he's hitting this poorly, return to it when/if he can start contributing with an OBP of at least .310 or more. Leave him in 2 hole against LHP.

 

Got to go with Eaton, Melky, Abreu, Frazier and leave that be for a month as our top four.

Last year Melky showed us that he does not hit well in the 2 spot. That makes me nervous. This year he is proving that hitting behind Frazier is fun. I suppose I'd be open to him going to the 2 spot again though, as his career numbers don't show it to be a problem outside of last year.

Flipflop Rollins with Saladino; change their roles.

Play them 50/50, whoever provides more value should start to capture the majority of playing time as we go.

 

Do we have a minor league catcher who can hit .250?? If so, bring him up and have him split time with one of the Avila/Navarro tandem. Release the other guy.

 

Absolutely not to the question and the suggestion. Continue to favor Avilia, but let Navarro take more time if he earns it. No reason to let the first 1/10 of the season make us get hasty here. Especially when Avila is a guy who typically hits better later in the year.

 

Seriously though, how can anybody disagree that Eaton, Melky, Abreu, Frazier, Lawrie, Saladino as our top six wouldn't be the way to go as the top six in our lineup?? Jackson draws some walks so his .180 batting average might even be OK as No. 7.

 

Probably not a bad idea. Melky could be 2, but if Jackson gets it going, I'd like to see him there. Same with Salad Fingers.

 

 

Release Avi.

End of April should be his definitive deadline. Bat him 9th until then. If he's still failing, send to Charlotte, give us Coats. Coats is at the point in his career like Saladino, where giving him full time at bats isn't going to get him closer to his ceiling anymore. Take him now or he'll probably forever in the minors.

 

 

This team will hit better. We know Abreu and Frazier will improve. Jackson & Avila won't be good offensive players, but you have a pretty good idea of what they will bring compared to what they've given you thus far.

 

We do not know what Rollins can do at this point in his career, we do not know what Avi can do.

 

Regardless, all factors put together, we will be scoring close to an average of 4 a game, whereas right now it's about 3.

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Bringing in no insurance in case Avi flopped was simply inexcusable.

 

To be fair, they planned on going into the year with a lot less playing tkme. That planned unraveled once LaRoche retired.

[Lillian]

Without going outside the organization, here is my humble assessment and suggestion:

 

Jackson has been squaring up a lot of pitches, and hitting into very bad luck. He looks like he could still be the career .270 hitter, with a respectable OBP, whom the Sox acquired. He is young enough, with a long enough track record to garner some confidence in his ability to perform. We can't minimize the fact that he anchors the outfield defense. I'd bat him either in the 2 hole, or 9TH.

 

Versus RHP, Melky needs to bat between Abreu and Frazier, both because he is the only viable run producing left handed bat, and because he seems to hit better in the middle of the lineup. I like him at DH much better than LF, where although he has made the plays, every ball hit to him seems like an "adventure".

 

Saladino is a much better defensive shortstop than Rollins, who has clearly lost a step. He should get at least half of the playing time. Tyler could hit against all LH starters and get a few starts vs. right handed starters. I love his baseball acumen, and wonder if he might be a decent number two hitter. He can bunt, but I don't know about his ability to hit to right, on hit and run plays.

 

Avi should be sent to AAA, and get a chance to play the outfield and hit every day. Maybe he needs more reps, as Robin suggested, with his new approach, until it becomes completely natural and comfortable and until he gains more confidence in it. Coats seems like the logical choice. He would make that outfield defense really solid, with him in left, Jackson in center and Eaton in right. Although he isn't left handed, he hits RHP at least as well as he hits lefties, and is currently hitting .415 vs. RHP in his 41 at bats.

 

Lineup Vs. RHP:

 

CF Eaton

SS Saladino

1B Abreu

DH Melky

3B Frazier

2B Lawrie

C Avila

LF Coats

CF Jackson

 

If Saladino doesn't fill the 2 hole, he could be switched with Jackson, in the order.

There isn't anything especially dramatic, or creative in these suggestions, but it would shake things up a bit, and suggest to everyone that the organization demands some accountability, and is not apathetic about a complete failure of the offense to produce. There is also the intangible benefit of rewarding a guy like Coats, who has apparently worked very hard, and is showing some marked improvement.