Top 30 International Prospects; July 2nd 2016

[GreenSox]

To further the point first round picks since Hahn has been GM:

 

2015 - Carson Fulmer - Top college pitcher available in the draft, high probability player

2014 - Carlos Rodon - The consensus top college player in the draft, projected most of the year to go 1.1

2013 - Tim Anderson - Considered by some to be a reach, highly athletic player with little baseball experience, junior college player

2012 - Courtney Hawkins - High upside player, compared to Matt Kemp for having power and being able to handle CF

2012 - Keon Barnum - High upside player - huge LH power but falls because he is likely a 1B only

 

So, they have gone out and got the two best college pitchers at their picks and three high ceiling, low floor guys.

The first round picks have been much better on paper. Barnum, however, was a massive reach.

 

Yes, they have spent most of their international money, but they have in no sense been "All in" like the Cubs, Redsox, Dodgers etc. And it doesn't cost THAT much money....the Laroche savings would more than cover it. But they are nowhere.

And no, I don't see any much out of Williams that he really wants to build an organization, as per the last 2 offseasons.

 

And this year, they could do some savvy reaching IF accompanied by signing them below slot. We'll see if that happens.

[harfman77]

The first round picks have been much better on paper. Barnum, however, was a massive reach.

 

Yes, they have spent most of their international money, but they have in no sense been "All in" like the Cubs, Redsox, Dodgers etc. And it doesn't cost THAT much money....the Laroche savings would more than cover it. But they are nowhere.

And no, I don't see any much out of Williams that he really wants to build an organization, as per the last 2 offseasons.

 

And this year, they could do some savvy reaching IF accompanied by signing them below slot. We'll see if that happens.

 

Barnum was definitely a gamble. The kid had probably the best raw LH power in that class and he was available there because he couldn't project at another position and teams were afraid that he would not make enough contact to make that power useful. The Sox rolled the dice on him improving as a hitter and lost. That happens, if he would have put it together you are looking at a home grown guy who would have been a perennial all star. Sometimes you have to take those gambles. The pick looks bad now, but at the time I think most people were pretty excited about it. Comparatively, people were disappointed with Broadway, McCulloch, Mitchell, and Walker as soon as their names were announced.

 

I think the strategy will be to grab two college performers and a HS with the first three picks and to take some gambles on upside in International FA. I know we get frustrated to see other teams outspend the Sox consistently in LA, but at the end of the day, those teams are getting much from those high dollar acquisitions and by the time they are 20, those guys that signed on the cheap have just a good of shot at the majors as the high dollar guys do for the most part.

[oldsox]

Rolling them into the draft when they turn 18 is quite literally the most fair system of all. It is crap that one group has one set of rules based on where they are born. I see no good reason for kids being free agents at 16 just because they are living in the DR, versus being subject to the draft because they are born in the US.

Ditto. Can you imagine the uproar if the NBA did it that way?

[bmags]

I thought people liked Mitchell?

[Boopa1219]

Modern day slavery based on what? Paying 16 year old kids exorbitant amounts of money to play a game that they choose to play? Thats not how slavery worked. In a country where the median income is around $1300 annually, a $35K plus bonus is more money than most people in the DR ever see.

 

Yes there is a lot of shady stuff, the Sox can attest to that from their own dealings. Whenever there is a large amount of money on the table there is going to be corruption, baseball has allowed that system to flourish with the current system, a hard cap would do nothing to remove that corruption.

 

We dont't know how much of that money is actually going to the players.

 

These guys essentially leave their families at a young age, go to a compound (plantation) and just work on playing baseball in the hopes of being good enough to be signed (bought) by a major league team. Showcases are basically slave auctions/markets, where (I'm going to guess 98% white) American men bid on children from a third world country.

 

Even after they sign, they go to a compound and just work on baseball.

[GreenSox]

I guess now we see why Williams and Hahn refuse to go all in in the international market.

[GGajewski18]

I guess now we see why Williams and Hahn refuse to go all in in the international market.

 

Jose Abreu.

[Chicago White Sox]

I guess now we see why Williams and Hahn refuse to go all in in the international market.

What the f*** are you even talking about? You literally b**** now without even providing any context to what it is you're upset about. If you're going to pollute every thread with your non-stop whining, can you least put forth some specifics so it can generate some discussion.

[southsider2k5]

What the f*** are you even talking about? You literally b**** now without even providing any context to what it is you're upset about. If you're going to pollute every thread with your non-stop whining, can you least put forth some specifics so it can generate some discussion.

 

Honestly, it has become a facebook meme at this point.

[GreenSox]

What the f*** are you even talking about? You literally b**** now without even providing any context to what it is you're upset about. If you're going to pollute every thread with your non-stop whining, can you least put forth some specifics so it can generate some discussion.

I put forth plenty of specifics. Some posters simply deny them, and put forth daft and profane posts like yours.

The context here is clear: the Sox are not making a major investment in the international market, it seems to be less an effort than usual (not in on any top 30s) when the usual efforts haven't been "all in", and this is a year in which it would behoove them to do so, and with the Laroche situation, they have some resources.

As for whining, the definition of whining is whether one agrees with conventional wisdom (not whining) or disagrees (whining). It's all about who/what one whines about.

Edited June 8, 2016 by GreenSox

[Bob Sacamano]

Jose Abreu.

 

Eh I understood what he meant. The amateur spending.

[southsider2k5]

I put forth plenty of specifics. Some posters simply deny them, and put forth daft and profane posts like yours.

The context here is clear: the Sox are not making a major investment in the international market, it seems to be less an effort than usual (not in on any top 30s) when the usual efforts haven't been "all in", and this is a year in which it would behoove them to do so, and with the Laroche situation, they have some resources.

As for whining, the definition of whining is whether one agrees with conventional wisdom (not whining) or disagrees (whining). It's all about who/what one whines about.

 

This team effectively traded Adam LaRoche, Erik Johnson, and Tatis Jr, for Shields at $10 million per for 2.5 years. I am good with what they did with the LaRoche money so far.

[Kyyle23]

I put forth plenty of specifics. Some posters simply deny them, and put forth daft and profane posts like yours.

The context here is clear: the Sox are not making a major investment in the international market, it seems to be less an effort than usual (not in on any top 30s) when the usual efforts haven't been "all in", and this is a year in which it would behoove them to do so, and with the Laroche situation, they have some resources.

As for whining, the definition of whining is whether one agrees with conventional wisdom (not whining) or disagrees (whining). It's all about who/what one whines about.

 

No, put your tinfoil hat groupthink bulls*** to bed. Whining is crying about the same s*** over and over and saying nothing different. Like my three year old does when he wants chocolate but I say no.

 

People argue rationally with you many times and you gloss over points and repeat yourself

[GreenSox]

What the f*** are you even talking about?

To answer your question, I was referring the Shields trade...dumping one of the highest rated international players for, well, 34 year old Shields. Doesn't indicate a high value on organization to me.

Edited June 9, 2016 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

To answer your question, I was referring the Shields trade...dumping one of the highest rated international players for, well, 34 year old Shields. Doesn't indicate a high value on organization to me.

 

Tatis was neither highly rated internationally (#27 in his class in one rating, unrated in another) nor highly rated with the White Sox (not in the FS top 30)

[GreenSox]

Tatis was neither highly rated internationally (#27 in his class in one rating, unrated in another) nor highly rated with the White Sox (not in the FS top 30)

#27 is not highly rated. No good. Okay.

Now back to the thread. If #27 is no good, and the Sox aren't on any top 30s, what does that say about the Williams/Hahn effort on the international front this year?

 

[southsider2k5]

#27 is not highly rated. No good. Okay.

Now back to the thread. If #27 is no good, and the Sox aren't on any top 30s, what does that say about the Williams/Hahn effort on the international front this year?

 

It tells me they didn't give up much to get James Shields.

[Chisoxfn]

This team effectively traded Adam LaRoche, Erik Johnson, and Tatis Jr, for Shields at $10 million per for 2.5 years. I am good with what they did with the LaRoche money so far.

Yeah...when you put it that way, I'm even more annoyed with the Shields deal.

[Y2Jimmy0]

#27 is not highly rated. No good. Okay.

Now back to the thread. If #27 is no good, and the Sox aren't on any top 30s, what does that say about the Williams/Hahn effort on the international front this year?

 

 

I agree with the premise here. I don't care at all that they traded Tatis Jr for Shields. It is a joke that they aren't going nuts internationally though. It's just a mode of acquiring talent that JR doesn't really value. It's unfortunate.

[Bob Sacamano]

Lourdes Gurriel should be available in this class I believe. He's 22 so an older but more likely to help you sooner prospect. Might as well try to snag him and any other top International talent and go over the limit.

Edited June 13, 2016 by soxfan2014

[CB2.0]

Yeah...when you put it that way, I'm even more annoyed with the Shields deal.

 

[harfman77]

Lourdes Gurriel should be available in this class I believe. He's 22 so an older but more likely to help you sooner prospect. Might as well try to snag him and any other top International talent and go over the limit.

 

Speculation is that he won't sign until October when he will be exempt from bonus pools.

[caulfield12]

With his bat-to-ball skills and ability to manage the strike zone, Fernandez is a potential high OBP threat in the major leagues, although his power is below-average. Speed isn’t part of Fernandez’s game, and his thickening lower half (listed at 5-foot-10, 185 pounds) has hampered his range at second base, where he’s at best an adequate defender. Fernandez also spent time at third base during the 2013-14 season, though his arm strength is better suited at second.

 

-Ben Badler, Baseball America

 

I don't know where our Cuban +23 year olds page went...?

 

Jose Miguel Fernandez, 2B....agent comparing him to Ben Zobrist Lite, seems to be reminiscent of a Carlos Sanchez physically. Twins, Dodgers and Royals all expressing interest so far.

Edited June 16, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Would think Gourriel/Gurriel will end up signing with the same team as his brother...probably the Yankees.

[harfman77]

With his bat-to-ball skills and ability to manage the strike zone, Fernandez is a potential high OBP threat in the major leagues, although his power is below-average. Speed isn’t part of Fernandez’s game, and his thickening lower half (listed at 5-foot-10, 185 pounds) has hampered his range at second base, where he’s at best an adequate defender. Fernandez also spent time at third base during the 2013-14 season, though his arm strength is better suited at second.

 

-Ben Badler, Baseball America

 

I don't know where our Cuban +23 year olds page went...?

 

Jose Miguel Fernandez, 2B....agent comparing him to Ben Zobrist Lite, seems to be reminiscent of a Carlos Sanchez physically. Twins, Dodgers and Royals all expressing interest so far.

 

Ben Zobrist with zero positional flexibility and without the ability to switch it. Reminds me more of Carlos Baerga physcially, but the dude can hit and doesn't K.