Erik Johnson started 19 games for the White Sox at the major league level, put up a 4.73 ERA, a 5.82 FIP, a 5.01 xFIP, a league average strikeout rate (7 K/9), a below average walk rate (4.5 BB/9), and his fastball velocity maxed out at 92, in 2013, in 5 starts. If the White Sox miss Erik Johnson that badly, they can probably trade for Dylan Axelrod.

 

And he never got a fair chance.

 

No, Greg.

 

Any time the Erik Johnson name is typed, it should auto-correct to this post.

Shields 5.45 ERA looks so much better

 

Those starts were across 3 seasons. And it's not like our guy who replaced him (Danks) was any better. But we'll trot guys like Shields out there in their age 36-37 season just because they are paid the most. So basically, to have any prayer of contention in the coming years, Fulmer will need to come up and be a #3/4 caliber guy from day one.

 

The question is, if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot why are we aggressively trading for wild cards with a financial commitment lasting 2-3 seasons? Organizational philosophy here is terrible.

 

Kind of like John Danks is in the rotation now? Stop yourself. Seriously.

But James Shields will likely make us regret trading for James Shields and his 2.5 year encumbrance.

Erik Johnson won't be a top of the rotation guy, nor probably a mid., but he can provide competent back-end performance. Sox will be lucky if Shields provides that

 

Sox seem to find little value in back end young pitchers or position players their eagle-eyes for talent deem "utility"...yet they repeatedly trade or otherwise acquire veterans who can't even provide that.

 

Erik Johnson is a AAAA pitcher, he will provide nothing. You can go ahead and lament the loss of a mediocre pitcher who is still getting roughed up, i sincerely dont care that he is gone and will not care that he is gone. Shields has sucked, there is no getting around it, but that doesnt make me say "Oh man Erik Johnson what could have been omg he was under team control." He was garbage, the sox saw it, we saw it. Its over with.

 

But please keep repeating your prospects complaint. It hasnt been heard in 2 minutes, someone else needs to hear it.

Creative use of the word "encumbrance," at least.

 

3 starts ago James Shields had a 3.06 era. Literally half of the earned runs that James Shields has given up this entire season, were given up in his last 3 starts. (23 of 45) That doesn't scream gradual decline. That screams red flag.

 

For refernce's sake, since everyone love to point at John Danks as some sort of reference point for suck, the most ER he ever gave up in 3 consecutive starts was 17, which happened to be right before he had shoulder surgery.

3 starts ago James Shields had a 3.06 era. Literally half of the earned runs that James Shields has given up this entire season, were given up in his last 3 starts. (23 of 45) That doesn't scream gradual decline. That screams red flag.

 

For refernce's sake, since everyone love to point at John Danks as some sort of reference point for suck, the most ER he ever gave up in 3 consecutive starts was 17, which happened to be right before he had shoulder surgery.

 

Well thank you for that little ray of sunshine.

3 starts ago James Shields had a 3.06 era. Literally half of the earned runs that James Shields has given up this entire season, were given up in his last 3 starts. (23 of 45) That doesn't scream gradual decline. That screams red flag.

 

For refernce's sake, since everyone love to point at John Danks as some sort of reference point for suck, the most ER he ever gave up in 3 consecutive starts was 17, which happened to be right before he had shoulder surgery.

 

You're selectively looking at stats just to fit your narrative. Latos gave up 16 of his 31 runs this season in 3 starts and was DFA. Why doesn't he get a pass as well?

 

If you are going to "take away" the 3 worst starts from Shields, you have to do it for every pitcher.

You're selectively looking at stats just to fit your narrative. Latos gave up 16 of his 31 runs this season in 3 starts and was DFA. Why doesn't he get a pass as well?

 

If you are going to "take away" the 3 worst starts from Shields, you have to do it for every pitcher.

 

You are selectively looking at stats to fit your narrative. In my case I have a decade of stats, versus the last three starts that are poisoning the well.

 

As to the unrelated second part about Latos, I didn't cut him, so I can't speak to why the White Sox did. But if I had to guess, my guess would be they are looking at the fact that he was pretty bad in 2015 as well, plus the fact that it wasn't just two or three bad starts in a row. He actually put up 6 out of 7 non-quality starts in a row. Latos being cut also probably had a lot to do with Gonzalez having pitched better than he had, plus James Shields pretty much being a done deal.

You are selectively looking at stats to fit your narrative. In my case I have a decade of stats, versus the last three starts that are poisoning the well.

 

As to the unrelated second part about Latos, I didn't cut him, so I can't speak to why the White Sox did. But if I had to guess, my guess would be they are looking at the fact that he was pretty bad in 2015 as well, plus the fact that it wasn't just two or three bad starts in a row. He actually put up 6 out of 7 non-quality starts in a row. Latos being cut also probably had a lot to do with Gonzalez having pitched better than he had, plus James Shields pretty much being a done deal.

 

And how are decade old stats relevant for a pitcher way past his prime and clearly on the decline? I compared Latos' performance to Shields the same way you did for an apples to apples comparison. Latos was as good if not better than Shields 4-8 years ago too. Look at his stats with the Reds and Padres.

 

Here's what you won't admit, they are both way past their primes and done. It's just the front office was dumb enough to take on 2.5 years of salary and give up prospects for one of them.

Edited June 15, 20169 yr by soxforlife05

And how are decade old stats relevant for a pitcher way past his prime and clearly on the decline? I compared Latos' performance to Shields the same way you did for an apples to apples comparison. Latos was as good if not better than Shields 4-8 years ago too. Look at his stats with the Reds and Padres.

 

Here's what you won't admit, they are both way past their primes and done. It's just the front office was dumb enough to take on 2.5 years of salary and give up prospects for one of them.

 

Here's what I won't admit. That James Shields should be released after 3 bad starts. Latos and Shields recent history are not apples and oranges.

Okay now I am confused.

 

Are they like comparing apples to apples? Or comparing apples to oranges? Or neither? I dont know which one of you have taken what stance...

Southsider2k5 is to James Shields as Obama is to Radical Islamic Terrorism

 

If you do not identify the problem, you cannot solve it.

Edited June 15, 20169 yr by soxforlife05

And for the record, Shields 2015 is not equal to Latos's 2015. Latos ERA was essentially a full run higher. Latos pitched about half of the innings that Shields did. Shields has 10 straight years of 200 IP. Latos has two in his entire career.

 

And while Shields may be past his prime, I won't say he is done as of yet. A serviceable pitcher who can get you 200 IP a year has a lot more value than Mat Latos.

Southsider2k5 is to James Shields as Obama is to Radical Islamic Terrorism

 

If you do not identify the problem, you cannot solve it.

 

As opposed to what Donald Trump is to Terrorism.

Here's what I won't admit. That James Shields should be released after 3 bad starts. Latos and Shields recent history are not apples and oranges.

 

There should not even be a debate about releasing him. He never should've been traded for. And to make matters worse we are stuck with him for 2.5 more years.

There should not even be a debate about releasing him. He never should've been traded for. And to make matters worse we are stuck with him for 2.5 more years.

 

You are right about the first part, but not how you mean it.

The contract commitments to Shields and Latos are also apples and oranges. No way that the Sox release the guy that they just invested $30M on.

 

You're selectively looking at stats just to fit your narrative. Latos gave up 16 of his 31 runs this season in 3 starts and was DFA. Why doesn't he get a pass as well?

 

If you are going to "take away" the 3 worst starts from Shields, you have to do it for every pitcher.

 

 

Because s*** costs money. That's why. Shields is owed $27 million and was just acquired. Latos was a $3 million flyer. James Shields isn't being released.

If Shields can round back into being a 4 ERA type guy, you can move this contract. Teams will still need pitching, he just has to improve...some.

Well it's a pretty clear line in the sand of who is for or against Shields.

 

Put me in the "for" category. I think he bounces back and brings value to this team.

If Shields can round back into being a 4 ERA type guy, you can move this contract. Teams will still need pitching, he just has to improve...some.

If he becomes that. they won't want to move him. Those are very good stats for a 9 mil. pitcher.

I'm not going to s*** the bed over his current performance, though at points in his last outing he looked a lot like a guy whose head was not in the right place. His throw into CF and later a successful throw to 1B were hallmarks of a guy who has absolutely no confidence in what he's doing. Confidence we can fix, so hopefully we do.

Looked at his games logs over the past few years and he clearly loses steam as seasons progress. He was over a 4.3 ERA during his last months of 2015 (11 starts). His numbers ARE weird..he gets touched up for 7 ER or so frequently and rebounds, but there is nothing in his "storied" history of 3 games in a row like this.

 

Look - Guys eventually reach the point where they are done. I think SD recognized this.

 

We, unfortunately..did not. I hope I'm wrong, but I really don't think so.

 

If he throws 200 IP this years it would be a miracle. Similarly, if he keeps his ERA under 5.

 

Neither of these things make him worth almost $30M and 2 1/2 years.

 

This will likely be a s***ty signing and best...a "meh" signing.

 

There were at least 3 bigger holes to fill then James Shields for 2 1/2 @ almost $30M.

 

 

Erik Johnson getting rocked again tonight, this time against the Nationals.

 

The only former starting pitcher to get "up in arms" about tonight is Junior Guerra if you're inclined to do so.

I ignore Caulfield posts, but I would bet $ it's about Erik Johnson and the Nationals.

 

Tell me I'm wrong.