harkness99 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 He looks like he could be our 4th or 5th starter for next year... He has had a lot of solid outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (harkness @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 04:03 AM) He looks like he could be our 4th or 5th starter for next year... He has had a lot of solid outings. As long as he can keep it up next season. He has looked pretty solid though.I am just saying we need to be cautious as we have seen guys before that looked good over a span of XX number of games and then just lose it Edited September 7, 2016 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:10 PM) As long as he can keep it up next season. He has looked pretty solid though.I am just saying we need to be cautious as we have seen guys before that looked good over a span of XX number of games and then just lose it Right... you never know. However if you look at his track record. Outside of 2015 he has pretty decent numbers. 3.25, 3.28 Era not long ago. 3.61 era so far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Hope he comes back next year as a back end starter, what is his contract status? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 What a perfect 5th starter he would be for us. How do we shed Shields and grab a threeish-type guy to slide into the 4 role? That's the trick for Hahn & Co. Sale- 1 Quintana- 1.25 Rodon- 3.5 New Guy- 3.5 Gonzalez- 4.5 That's nails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 04:39 AM) What a perfect 5th starter he would be for us. How do we shed Shields and grab a threeish-type guy to slide into the 4 role? That's the trick for Hahn & Co. Sale- 1 Quintana- 1.25 Rodon- 3.5 New Guy- 3.5 Gonzalez- 4.5 That's nails. That's not nails if Rodon and Shields suck. Rodon is not guaranteed to get guys out for six, seven innings and Shields can't do it. That leaves two studs and three question marks at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:37 PM) Hope he comes back next year as a back end starter, what is his contract status? Mark Next year is his final arb year so he's under Sox control if they want him. Looks like a great option for 4th/5th starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:52 AM) Next year is his final arb year so he's under Sox control if they want him. Looks like a great option for 4th/5th starter. They will keep him. There's no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Definitely keep him but have to assume you'll only get maybe 20 starts out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 If they are truly rebuilding, there is no reason to keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) If they are truly rebuilding, there is no reason to keep him. Even if it is a rebuild, I'm not positive that they end up dealing both Quintana and Sale. Do they also deal Eaton? What about Abreu? Where does it stop? Gonzalez should have some value with the lack of SP available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) If they are truly rebuilding, there is no reason to keep him. Yes there is, you keep him and hope that he keeps pitching like so that you can flip him at the deadline (if there are no plans to trade him during the offseason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Definitely keep him but have to assume you'll only get maybe 20 starts out of him. Why is there reason to assume they will only get 20 starts out of him? Since his first full year in the majors he has made 28, 26, and 26 starts. This year he has made 19 starts with probably 4 or 5 more scheduled in a year in which he wasn't called up until the end of April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:55 AM) Yes there is, you keep him and hope that he keeps pitching like so that you can flip him at the deadline (if there are no plans to trade him during the offseason). At the deadline he will be months away from free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Rebuilding would mean Fulmer in the rotation....so Shields would be relegated to the pen or released ar the end of May. Gonzalez would be dealt in June/July, as a cheap rental piece. Of course, we had the same idea about Humber, and he went south too quickly. And, that said, unless he's pitching like 2003 Loiaza, the return won't be overwhelming. Ranaudo also starting wouldn't be rebuilding because he's not a factor for the future and has negligible trade value. Burdi would be a starter at Winston-Salem. Edited September 7, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Gonzalez is one of those guys everyone wants around after a good game, and everyone wonders what he is doing in the rotation when he gets bombed. Obviously, you don't just let him go, but if they are rebuilding, it's not like they are going to send everyone away. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the people they are trading are the guys that aren't going to be around. Melky, Frazier, Robertson. From what he said, they are definitely taking a step back, but that may not include trading guys like Sale or Q. A couple of other things. He was very aware the team was going to be OBP challenged coming into this year. He did say it is currently on the low end of what they were hoping to get. And that is a point of emphasis now. He said 5 of the top 6 OBP guys in the minors were recent draft picks. Some guy complained about not signing Asian players. Said they were all over the place. Hahn asked who he wanted the Sox to sign. Of course the guy couldn't think of anyone. Said the posting system and success some guys have had have made signing them very expensive. Someone mentioned to him many of his failed signings, he did say all those guys sucked. He really was quite good. Brooks was next and he was pretty funny. I am one who has always liked Brooks and think he has maybe the most thankless job in the world. He talked a bit about Guaranteed Rate, and emphasized it is a more lucrative deal overall than is in the press, and there are going to be some cool things coming from this partnership. Then some guy who has a weekend package with $5 tickets started complaining he couldn't sell his upper deck corner seats on Stubhub and they have to do more for a guy like him. like make sure he gets all the giveaways. He is thinking about pulling the plug on his $135 commitment. For his $135 commitment they give him a season ticketholder gift at the end of the year. Sometimes its' sweet, sometimes blah. You get a season ticketholder party at the park. A party at the ChiSox Bar and Grill at the beginning of the season, and they give you a free game with a patio party, and this guy is complaining he can't sell his $5 ticket for $6 on Stubhub, and the Sox need to compensate him for that. That was my que to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 He should have been dealt at the last deadline. He's not going to bring much in the offseason anyway. Keep him. MLB rules are that somebody has to be the starting pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 He has only 3 starts this year where he has given up 4 or more earned runs and 15 where he gave up 3 or less. I will gladly take that from my 4th starter every day of the week. If you take out his 7 run and 8 run game this year his ERA would be 2.79. So essentially a 2.79 ERA over 15 starts and just 2 starts where the team had very little shot at winning. To me he's been pretty impressive. If they decide to go for it again next year and Gonzalez pitches like this again, the Sox front 4 of Sale, Q, Rodon and Gonzalez would be among the best in baseball. If they can get anything out of Shields/Fulmer/FA in the 5th spot they could have a top 3 rotation in all of baseball. Even an average offense could make the playoffs with that type of rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:03 AM) Gonzalez is one of those guys everyone wants around after a good game, and everyone wonders what he is doing in the rotation when he gets bombed. Obviously, you don't just let him go, but if they are rebuilding, it's not like they are going to send everyone away. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the people they are trading are the guys that aren't going to be around. Melky, Frazier, Robertson. From what he said, they are definitely taking a step back, but that may not include trading guys like Sale or Q. A couple of other things. He was very aware the team was going to be OBP challenged coming into this year. He did say it is currently on the low end of what they were hoping to get. And that is a point of emphasis now. He said 5 of the top 6 OBP guys in the minors were recent draft picks. Some guy complained about not signing Asian players. Said they were all over the place. Hahn asked who he wanted the Sox to sign. Of course the guy couldn't think of anyone. Said the posting system and success some guys have had have made signing them very expensive. Someone mentioned to him many of his failed signings, he did say all those guys sucked. He really was quite good. Brooks was next and he was pretty funny. I am one who has always liked Brooks and think he has maybe the most thankless job in the world. He talked a bit about Guaranteed Rate, and emphasized it is a more lucrative deal overall than is in the press, and there are going to be some cool things coming from this partnership. Then some guy who has a weekend package with $5 tickets started complaining he couldn't sell his upper deck corner seats on Stubhub and they have to do more for a guy like him. like make sure he gets all the giveaways. He is thinking about pulling the plug on his $135 commitment. For his $135 commitment they give him a season ticketholder gift at the end of the year. Sometimes its' sweet, sometimes blah. You get a season ticketholder party at the park. A party at the ChiSox Bar and Grill at the beginning of the season, and they give you a free game with a patio party, and this guy is complaining he can't sell his $5 ticket for $6 on Stubhub, and the Sox need to compensate him for that. That was my que to leave. He really hasn't been bombed much this year... and for most of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 06:59 AM) At the deadline he will be months away from free agency. Guys get traded at the deadline who are months away from free agency all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) If they are truly rebuilding, there is no reason to keep him. Have they actually said they are rebuilding? I highly doubt they will. They will try to win again next year.. for better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 11:28 AM) Guys get traded at the deadline who are months away from free agency all the time. 1 year is worth way more than two months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) 1 year is worth way more than two months. Depends on the situation. If he is pitching well and healthy at the trade deadline next year I think he'd be worth more than he will be this offseason. Of course the odds of him being healthy and pitching well at the trade deadline are 50/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) 1 year is worth way more than two months. Oh, I misread your thoughts, I thought you meant we weren't going to sign him at all and let him walk (not trade him in the off-season). I actually agree with you then, depending on what the clubs plan is. I think if they want to move him, they probably should capitalize while his value is high (realistically, they should have moved him at the deadline). That said, if the right offer isn't there, then I think you keep him and dump him at the deadline (as in the case for a guy like Miguel, I don't know how much teams will give up prospects in the off-season for him vs. mid-season when they have no alternatives and thus less leverage). For star players, you can move them at both times, no problem, but the more mediocre guys, I tend to think they have more value mid-season vs. offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) Depends on the situation. If he is pitching well and healthy at the trade deadline next year I think he'd be worth more than he will be this offseason. Of course the odds of him being healthy and pitching well at the trade deadline are 50/50. I do not believe that he will pitch better than he is pitching now. In fact, to me, this screams the absolute peak value for Miguel Gonzalez. We picked him off of the scrap heap for literally nothing. The Sox have turned him into a middle rotation starter this year. The guy put up a 3.81 era, and a 3.86 FIP. The average starter in the AL put up a 4.47 era. He is also 14 months away from free agency. How much better is it going to get? To me, there are a million things that could go wrong, and not many that could go right. He doesn't have the history of a real front line starter where you get the feeling he can do this annually. The guy was reduced to a minor league contract just six months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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