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Jose Abreu

Rumors that Cespedes is opting out

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QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 08:35 AM)
It makes me LOL that people wish we kept Flowers... I know he had a good year but we all despised him on the Sox

 

Him and Avila were essentially the same player by fWAR. Avila was better defensively and Flowers was better offensively. He was highly replaceable. Sox fans really need to let him go already.

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QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 09:43 AM)
Him and Avila were essentially the same player by fWAR. Avila was better defensively and Flowers was better offensively. He was highly replaceable. Sox fans really need to let him go already.

 

Not really. They had the same fWAR but Avila did so with less than 2/3 the PAs that Flowers had. Avila was clearly the superior player when healthy this year.

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 09:56 AM)
Not really. They had the same fWAR but Avila did so with less than 2/3 the PAs that Flowers had. Avila was clearly the superior player when healthy this year.

 

The problem is that you can't count on Avila to stay healthy, while Flowers usually is.

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 09:56 AM)
Not really. They had the same fWAR but Avila did so with less than 2/3 the PAs that Flowers had. Avila was clearly the superior player when healthy this year.

 

Very true. He amassed the same fWAR in ~100 less ABs.

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 09:56 AM)
Not really. They had the same fWAR but Avila did so with less than 2/3 the PAs that Flowers had. Avila was clearly the superior player when healthy this year.

 

Which is saying something....

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QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 09:56 AM)
Not really. They had the same fWAR but Avila did so with less than 2/3 the PAs that Flowers had. Avila was clearly the superior player when healthy this year.

I agree, but keep in mind that Flowers is a great pitch framer

 

Edit: Those who watched the games this year should know how often strikes our pitchers threw were called balls. Was far more prevalent this year than last.

Edited by Jose Abreu

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I hope the Red Sox sign him. Gotta replace the power somewhere. Or sign Desmond or Reddick. Then they deal us Benintendi in a deal to strengthen their rotation.

Edited by soxfan2014

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:02 AM)
I agree, but keep in mind that Flowers is a great pitch framer

 

Edit: Those who watched the games this year should know how often strikes our pitchers threw were called balls. Was far more prevalent this year than last.

 

There are so many faults in pitch framing stats that I put little value in them. There is just no way to accurately measure how well a catcher is framing pitches in comparison to another when they are catching two different pitching staffs and with different umpires behind the plate. The eye test certainly says the Sox were not good in that department this year with Navarro being worse than Avila but even the best framing catchers versus the worst is only maybe 3-4 pitches per game.

Edited by lasttriptotulsa

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:07 AM)
I hope the Red Sox sign him. Gotta replace the power somewhere. Or sign Desmond or Reddick. Then they deal us Benintendi in a deal to strengthen their rotation.

 

The Red Sox are going to lose this series and be desperate.

 

I think Benintendi, Moncada plus is a real possibility for Sale.

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I am going to refresh this thread every minute from now until December when some other team signs him for less than expected.

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QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 12:07 PM)
I am going to refresh this thread every minute from now until December when some other team signs him for less than expected.

:D

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QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:07 AM)
I hope the Red Sox sign him. Gotta replace the power somewhere. Or sign Desmond or Reddick. Then they deal us Benintendi in a deal to strengthen their rotation.

 

This is best case. Red Sox must be kicking themselves right now for not offering a better deal. Sale/Q would've guaranteed a series win over the tribe. Unless they rebound, it'll be #1 priority for them.

 

If they get swept, I suspect Moncada and Benintendi will be in any offer since both are easily replaceable for 2017-2020.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 01:13 PM)
The Red Sox are going to lose this series and be desperate.

 

I think Benintendi, Moncada plus is a real possibility for Sale.

 

With the way that Benintiendi has been raking, I think that they'll be reluctant to move him. From what I've heard, they've been reluctant to move Moncada as well.

 

For Sale alone, I think that the Sox could realistically get Bradley, Devers, and Kopech, and possibly more. That would fill a need in CF, an upcoming need at 3B, and would replace Sale's loss with another pitcher.

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 03:29 PM)
Wasn't Flowers also terrible throwing out runners this year?

 

He's had trouble for the last few years throwing guys out in addition to the high number of passed balls.

 

He's bad, period. Don't even want the Sox to consider ever bringing him back.

 

Mark

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 06:39 PM)
With the way that Benintiendi has been raking, I think that they'll be reluctant to move him. From what I've heard, they've been reluctant to move Moncada as well.

 

For Sale alone, I think that the Sox could realistically get Bradley, Devers, and Kopech, and possibly more. That would fill a need in CF, an upcoming need at 3B, and would replace Sale's loss with another pitcher.

 

Will be very upset if Bradley is the centerpiece. If Boston gets swept they will feel the pressure to make a splash.

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QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:03 PM)
Will be very upset if Bradley is the centerpiece. If Boston gets swept they will feel the pressure to make a splash.

 

Yeah, it'd really suck to get a 26-year-old CF who can hit in the 2-spot, who's put up an .830 OPS in each of the past two seasons, and is under team control through 2020.

 

If I'm dealing Sale, I want at least one proven young major-leaguer. Bradley and Betts are the best two fits for the Sox, and Bradley is going to be the more realistic centerpiece.

 

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 09:30 PM)
Yeah, it'd really suck to get a 26-year-old CF who can hit in the 2-spot, who's put up an .830 OPS in each of the past two seasons, and is under team control through 2020.

 

If I'm dealing Sale, I want at least one proven young major-leaguer. Bradley and Betts are the best two fits for the Sox, and Bradley is going to be the more realistic centerpiece.

 

I don't want to buy high on a guy having a career year who looked like a bust with a large sample size before that. He's having a better year because that lineup is stacked and he's getting more hittable pitches as a result. He'd revert to being terrible if he came here like he was when Boston was losing a few years ago. He disappears for months at a time with sub .200 batting averages he's not a guy who's capable of carrying this lineup.

 

Selling high on guys like Trayce Thompson, Bradley are the type of moves that make sense and how you build a championship team with payroll constraints. Billy Beane is the master of this. This team bought high on Samardzija, Swisher, Koch, need I go on?

 

So far he's been a complete bust this year in the playoffs (0-6 with 5 k's) and has a very inconsistent track record as a hitter year to year and month to month. And we'd only get 1 maybe 2 useful seasons out of him before he leaves since I doubt this team pays up for a guy at the end of his prime years.

Edited by soxforlife05

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QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:53 PM)
I don't want to buy high on a guy having a career year who looked like a bust with a large sample size before that. He's having a better year because that lineup is stacked and he's getting more hittable pitches as a result. He'd revert to being terrible if he came here like he was when Boston was losing a few years ago.

 

Selling high on guys like Trayce Thompson, Bradley are the type of moves that make sense and how you build a championship team with payroll constraints. Billy Beane is the master of this. This team bought high on Samardzija, Swisher, Koch, need I go on?

 

So far he's been a complete bust this year in the playoffs (0-6 with 5 k's) and has a very inconsistent track record as a hitter year to year and month to month. And we'd only get 1 maybe 2 useful seasons out of him before he leaves since I doubt this team pays up for a guy at the end of his prime years.

 

Um, Bradley just turned 26, so it's understandable that he was not that great three or four years ago. That's pretty normal. I love how you cite him being 0-6 in the playoffs as evidence that he's not very good, rather than the previous two seasons of .830+ OPS hitting. Dude was a 5.3 WAR this year and if you think that's comparable to Trayce Thompson, I have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

You're also wrong about getting 1-2 useful seasons out of him, as he's under team control through 2020.

 

Edited by Black_Jack29

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QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 10:10 PM)
Um, Bradley just turned 26, so it's understandable that he was not that great three or four years ago. That's pretty normal. I love how you cite him being 0-6 in the playoffs as evidence that he's not very good, rather than the previous two seasons of .830+ OPS hitting. Dude was a 5.3 WAR this year and if you think that's comparable to Trayce Thompson, I have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

You're also wrong about getting 1-2 useful seasons out of him, as he's under team control through 2020.

 

Yeah I said 5.3 WAR is a career year for him. Jackie Bradley will NEVER top that again in his career. His career will go the way of Chris Young, who ironically is currently on their roster as well. Feel free to add this to your sig.

 

I never compared Trayce Thompson to him, I said they are both examples of selling high on a player. The Sox successfully sold high on him this offseason which was a great move.

 

He has an April birthday he will be 31 at the start of the first season after he hits the FA market.

 

This team won't be rebuilt until 2019-2020 if they go the rebuild route.

 

Stop being so butthurt because I picked apart your post on Ventura. He's a terrible manager and it's a good thing he's gone.

Edited by soxforlife05

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QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 11:16 PM)
Yeah I said 5.3 WAR is a career year for him. Jackie Bradley will NEVER top that again in his career. His career will go the way of Chris Young, who ironically is currently on their roster as well. Feel free to add this to your sig.

 

You're so sure of this, yet are incapable of offering a shred of supporting evidence.

 

Stop being so butthurt because I picked apart your post on Ventura. He's a terrible manager and it's a good thing he's gone.

 

I have no idea which post you're referring to. And that doesn't surprise me, given the unmemorable content of your remarks.

Edited by Black_Jack29

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