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QUOTE(drowninginflame @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 06:30 AM)
he was crying after he blew it

This is actually the only thing that worries me.

I like the approach Brad Lidge showed last night.

Gave respect to Scott for getting a good swing, and put it behind him.

I just don't want Bobby doubting himself or fearing the failure. Failure comes with the territory, and it's magnified because of when he works.

 

Bobby seemed like the happiest guy in the park after Scott's blast, though.

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QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 09:04 AM)
I'd think, given how he has managed all year, that this isn't even a discussion and Jenks will be out there next time there's a save opp.

 

You mean 1/2 year. I don't think AA pitching can really factor in at this point.

 

I agree he's the guy to have out there, but he's the weak link at this point. At the minimum, he's a question mark.

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...... I'd be very surprised if this isn't the biggest discussion in Ozzie's office today and tomorrow

Can you imagine what one of the biggest discussions in Phil Garner's office is going to be? Despite his public vote of confidence. :D

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QUOTE(Mercy! @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 09:12 AM)
Can you imagine what one of the biggest discussions in Phil Garner's office is going to be?  Despite his public vote of confidence. :D

 

They have even less of an option. BTW, the one Astros game I was at, Lidge blew a save. They went on to win with a walk off home run, but it was another screw Clemens performance. Later, I heard Lidge was suffering from the flu, but they didn't think they had a better option.

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I think Bobby probably was a little tired after going 1 1/3 innings the night before. That was my main worry about bringing him in last night.

 

He absolutely needs to show the curve ball more. If all you throw is straight heat, Major League hitters will solve you.

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QUOTE(drowninginflame @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:30 AM)
he was crying after he blew it

 

I didn't see that, that's too bad. It wasn't a bad outing at all, they hit a couple of good pitches, give them credit. But again, it's a hell of a lot easier to hit a 97 mph fastball when that's all you're looking for. Vizcaino put the bat on the ball, period.

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I do not think that Jenks is quite ready to throw back-to-back days unless his offspeed stuff is trusted. It is good enough he just needs the confidence. That being said his outing was much better than that of Wheeler, Qualls and Lidge. I think last night's conditions made it harder to get a feel for the ball. That was why I really liked Cliff's outing.

 

Ozzie pointed out that the ball Bagwell hit was perfectly placed and is caught 90% of the time. Aaron had him shaded toward RF. The walk was BS and the Vix hat is the old, tip your hat to the guy.

 

Lidge and Qualls gave up bombs and Wheeler couldn't throw a strike.

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I'm excited already thinking about our pitching staff for NEXT year!

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The main thing Jenks needs to improve upon to become a big time closer is his consistency from game to game. To have like a 4 mph dropoff from one game to the next is pretty major.

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Also, Jenks seemed very nervous last night. He seemed to be talking to himself an awful lot, and he sure did short-arm that offspeed pitch to Bagwell.

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Reifert's blog:

 

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th...ay_thought.html

 

Big Hug

 

Ozzie Guillen looked for closer Bobby Jenks immediately after Podsednik's home run.  "I slapped him and told him to forget tonight," Guillen said.  "The next time we are in a save situation, you will be in the game."

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QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 09:28 AM)
I didn't see that, that's too bad.  It wasn't a bad outing at all, they hit a couple of good pitches, give them credit.  But again, it's a hell of a lot easier to hit a 97 mph fastball when that's all you're looking for.  Vizcaino put the bat on the ball, period.

 

You cant help but feel for the guy, and at the same time I really admire those tears which really shows the heart and passion Bobby has for this ballclub which is very encouraging...on a physical note I aswell would like to see Bobby drop that big breaker, last night he was waaaay too predictable out there, hell it was fastball after fastball, but you gottta realize he's just a kid, he's stil young and he'll learn dont worry about him I got all the confidence in the world in Big Bad Bobby

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Wite and i have been thinking for a while that cotts is our best option to close. I am really hoping he gets a shot to next season ( not likely because of everyones fascination with jenks). But imo cotts had the most upside out of anyone in out pen and he gives us the best chance to close out games if there our 3-4 days in a row we need a save. Jenks loss of velocity after one inning and another inning is quite disturbing. Over the regular season i can only see him converting 65-70% of his save attempts.

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QUOTE(qwerty @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:38 PM)
Wite and i have been thinking for a while that cotts is our best option to close.  I am really hoping he gets a shot to next season ( not likely because of everyones fascination with jenks). But imo cotts had the most upside out of anyone in out pen and he gives us the best chance to close out games if there our 3-4 days in a row we need a save. Jenks loss of velocity after one inning and another inning is quite disturbing. Over the regular season i can only see him converting 65-70% of his save attempts.

 

I'd agree 100%. Cotts is our best pitcher right now, bar none. There is no one I'd rather see out on the mound in the 8th inning, no matter the situation.

 

I also kind of see a little bit of Billy Koch in Bobby. Both had absolutely stunning fastballs when they came up, both had solid breaking pitches, though Jenks' is superior, both struggle with control, and both very much overthrow the ball at times. I love Jenks as much as anyone, especially when he is on...but when he is not on, he is bad...and I am almost willing to say Koch/Thriller bad, but I'm not sure anyone can be that bad.

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QUOTE(qwerty @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 05:38 PM)
Wite and i have been thinking for a while that cotts is our best option to close.  I am really hoping he gets a shot to next season ( not likely because of everyones fascination with jenks). But imo cotts had the most upside out of anyone in out pen and he gives us the best chance to close out games if there our 3-4 days in a row we need a save. Jenks loss of velocity after one inning and another inning is quite disturbing. Over the regular season i can only see him converting 65-70% of his save attempts.

It's also worth considering that Bobby is at the end of a long season 1 year off of major arm surgery, and I doubt he's had many 15 day breaks in his career to deal with in terms of staying fresh.

 

I think we could all agree that Jenks has by far the best "Stuff" in our bullpen. I think we can also agree that with a decent bullpen outside of the playoffs, save opportunities that last more than 1 inning are fairly rare. I think we can also agree that guys having to come in 3-4 days in a row to close out games is also fairly rare - out here in LA, I saw K-Rod break down a couple of times doing the same thing.

 

Bobby needs time to settle into the role and grow up as a big league pitcher - getting used to when to throw the curve ball/changeup, learning how to climb the ladder with that fastball with 2 strikes in order to make batters grab some bench, and so on. I know we don't have time now, but we got past his problems last night, and I think he'll come back even better on Tuesday/Wednesday if we need him.

 

I doubt he'll put together a Gagne-like streak, but there's no reason he can't be as good as Billy Wagner, if not better, once he learns a few more th ings about how to retire major league hitters.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 06:44 PM)
It's also worth considering that Bobby is at the end of a long season 1 year off of major arm surgery, and I doubt he's had many 15 day breaks in his career to deal with in terms of staying fresh.

 

I think we could all agree that Jenks has by far the best "Stuff" in our bullpen.  I think we can also agree that with a decent bullpen outside of the playoffs, save opportunities that last more than 1 inning are fairly rare.  I think we can also agree that guys having to come in 3-4 days in a row to close out games is also fairly rare - out here in LA, I saw K-Rod break down a couple of times doing the same thing.

 

Bobby needs time to settle into the role and grow up as a big league pitcher - getting used to when to throw the curve ball/changeup, learning how to climb the ladder with that fastball with 2 strikes in order to make batters grab some bench, and so on.  I know we don't have time now, but we got past his problems last night, and I think he'll come back even better on Tuesday/Wednesday if we need him.

 

I doubt he'll put together a Gagne-like streak, but there's no reason he can't be as good as Billy Wagner, if not better, once he learns a few more th ings about how to retire major league hitters.

 

There are a lot of things that could have led to him blowing it. The cold weather, the world series jitters (yes even in his 2nd game), his inexperience with major league hitters, the surgery. This guy used to be a starter and I believe he will be ok he just needs to throw that curve.

 

I think Ozzie's reaction after Pods' walkoff towards Jenks is a huge key. If I were Bobby I would put that game behind me and Ozzie's words would have just encouraged big time. Good job by Ozzie big time.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 07:44 PM)
It's also worth considering that Bobby is at the end of a long season 1 year off of major arm surgery, and I doubt he's had many 15 day breaks in his career to deal with in terms of staying fresh.

 

I think we could all agree that Jenks has by far the best "Stuff" in our bullpen.  I think we can also agree that with a decent bullpen outside of the playoffs, save opportunities that last more than 1 inning are fairly rare.  I think we can also agree that guys having to come in 3-4 days in a row to close out games is also fairly rare - out here in LA, I saw K-Rod break down a couple of times doing the same thing.

 

Bobby needs time to settle into the role and grow up as a big league pitcher - getting used to when to throw the curve ball/changeup, learning how to climb the ladder with that fastball with 2 strikes in order to make batters grab some bench, and so on.  I know we don't have time now, but we got past his problems last night, and I think he'll come back even better on Tuesday/Wednesday if we need him.

 

I doubt he'll put together a Gagne-like streak, but there's no reason he can't be as good as Billy Wagner, if not better, once he learns a few more th ings about how to retire major league hitters.

 

Do you realize you compared jenks to one of the greatest closers in major league baseball history?

Most closers go though one or two stretches every season that they have 3-4 save oppurtunities. There are even more times in a season that they pitch 3-4 days in a row. Jenks would likely be fine the first day he is fresh and probally the second too. once he learns to have more confidence in his breaking ball. Sure, he has great stuff but everything he throws looks even better because it is set-up by his 99-100 mile an hour fastball.

 

After one inning of work he is at 97 the next inning and it doesn't matter if he comes on the next inning or next day... he will not touch above 97. Now that is plenty fast enough when he is throwing up and preferablly in... but when he is throwing low and away he gets hit. My main concern with him is his velocity loss after just one inning.

By the third day he would have to pitch he will be in the 95-96 velocity range and at this point i don't believe he knows how to pitch with it. Remember how koch couldn't get anyone out even when he was hitting 94-95?

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I've seen Jenks lose velocity from inning to inning, but not from day to day...maybe I just haven't been home to see radar guns enough but the only real trend I noticed this season with him was that later in September it started to look like he was losing an mph or two, and I was starting to think it was probably due to the sheer length of the big league season. Is there any chance we're seeing two different trends interfering upon each other there, and we're each looking at the data in a different way? (Lousy small sample sizes)

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oh, brother... sample sizes, t values, z values, rejecting hypothesis testing... do you think we can set up a statisitic sample for Bobby Jenks?

 

Can you tell I'm in stats class? And what we're talking about?

 

LMAO

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QUOTE(kapkomet @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 06:10 PM)
oh, brother... sample sizes, t values, z values, rejecting hypothesis testing... do you think we can set up a statisitic sample for Bobby Jenks?

 

Can you tell I'm in stats class?  And what we're talking about?

 

LMAO

Do an ANOVA table and get back to me.

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QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2005 -> 01:14 AM)
Do an ANOVA table and get back to me.

LMAO

 

That's our lecture in an hour.

 

STOP IT!

 

:lolhitting

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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 06:43 PM)
I am almost willing to say Koch/Thriller bad, but I'm not sure anyone can be that bad.

 

The days of Koch and the Thriller seem like a whole century ago right about now huh

 

:cheers to that

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QUOTE(kapkomet @ Oct 24, 2005 -> 06:16 PM)
LMAO

 

That's our lecture in an hour.

 

STOP IT!

 

:lolhitting

I did that class about 2 years ago now :D

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