White Sox Sign Dunn

[Vote4Pedro]

Ken Williams meets with Adam Dunn's agent

 

[DirtySox]

"We are in the process right now of determining whether or not adding to the current mix we have would be the most prudent thing to do and gives us the best chance to win a championship or turning some of our players into young, impact guys," he said. "What we don't want to do is we don't want to be in the middle."

 

Interesting.

[nitetrain8601]

I read about it. It says One GM thinks it would be that much for a starting point. He's probably going to get more. With that said, my favorite part was:

 

"We are in the process right now of determining whether or not adding to the current mix we have would be the most prudent thing to do and gives us the best chance to win a championship or turning some of our players into young, impact guys," he added. "What we don't want to do is we don't want to be in the middle."

 

From Kenny. This is the absolute right attitude. I don't think any sports team should settle for being middle of the pack. It's the worse thing to do.

[spiderman]

I read about it. It says One GM thinks it would be that much for a starting point. He's probably going to get more. With that said, my favorite part was:

 

 

 

From Kenny. This is the absolute right attitude. I don't think any sports team should settle for being middle of the pack. It's the worse thing to do.

 

Ironic, isn't that exactly where they are? Williams has added payroll (and traded young players) for Jackson, Peavy, and Rios (that was just money), and the team has extremely little flexibility in adding payroll, and getting better without losing it's best offensive player (Konerko and maybe it's catcher in AJ) from last season. Meanwhile, the team is slightly better than a .500 team and sort of a middle of the road team.

[southsider2k5]

Interesting numbers. I wonder how far down off of that we could get him for.

[ThunderBolt]

That's a killer quote by KW up there. I hope he follows his own advice.

[Chicago White Sox]

"We are in the process right now of determining whether or not adding to the current mix we have would be the most prudent thing to do and gives us the best chance to win a championship or turning some of our players into young, impact guys," he said. "What we don't want to do is we don't want to be in the middle."

 

That's a killer quote by KW up there. I hope he follows his own advice.

 

I'd love to hear how you are interpreting that quote, because I'm not super excited about it.

 

The way I'm reading it is that KW is considering making Morel our starting 3B, Viciedo our starting 1B or DH, and Flowers our starting C instead of signing veterans to fill these spots. That "in the middle" comment makes me believe KW is implying not just making one of these guys a starter but actually all three of them. IMO, this quote seems like nothing more than some advanced PR spin so we aren't all super pissed if the Sox go the cheap way.

 

Also, what's wrong with going with one young guy, say Morel at 3B, and signing/trading for vets at the other spots? I think a mix is the ideal way to go if you're trying to balance current and long-term success. I really don't see how developing three young position players in the same season is really going to give us a better chance to win next year. Especially if one of them of is Tyler Flowers, who needs another season in AAA before he should even enter into this discussion.

[35thstreetswarm]

I'd love to hear how you are interpreting that quote, because I'm not super excited about it.

 

The way I'm reading it is that KW is considering making Morel our starting 3B, Viciedo our starting 1B or DH, and Flowers our starting C instead of signing veterans to fill these spots. That "in the middle" comment makes me believe KW is implying not just making one of these guys a starter but actually all three of them. IMO, this quote seems like nothing more than some advanced PR spin so we aren't all super pissed if the Sox go the cheap way.

 

Also, what's wrong with going with one young guy, say Morel at 3B, and signing/trading for vets at the other spots? I think a mix is the ideal way to go if you're trying to balance current and long-term success. I really don't see how developing three young position players in the same season is really going to give us a better chance to win next year. Especially if one of them of is Tyler Flowers, who needs another season in AAA before he should even enter into this discussion.

 

Totally agree. Put together, this is a rather scary set of quotes to me. I was hoping that the Sox might be willing to spend a little extra dough this offseason to build a complete offense that would complement what should be a very special rotation. This screams "we have no plan, we are totally overwhelmed at the number of holes we have to fill, and we may just go into rebuilding mode and waste a killer pitching staff."

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Kenny is always "in the middle" and the last time he specifically tried to be "in the middle" he won a division title. The idea that one way or the other is the way to go - well, who actually thinks that's true? Really?

 

If you're too old you're vulnerable to quick regression and bad contracts (see Detroit of recent years) and you have a hard time finding the pieces to build your next core around. And if you're too young you don't just end up like TB, they're not like some model that anyone can achieve, they're the product of major sucking for a long time followed by some good moves years later, and despite what everyone may *think* they are actually NOT destined for 10+ years of being at the top of league either. They're not guaranteed anything. People said the same about every Marlins squad that was run out there after they tore the place down. How many playoff appearances - scratch that - non-dogs*** teams have the O's run out in recent memory? Winning in baseball is hard enough as it is, and asking young players to reach their potential in order to win first is even more difficult. It's amazing to me that year after year there are so many Sox fans who think trading good proven players for minor league nobodies is the way to go. Well we tried that for a long time and it doesn't work. You have to be in the middle. And Kenny's quote, to me, sounds more like "Dunn's asking price is too high for a strikeout king with no D who yet demands to be on the field, and as a result, throwing Viciedo out there (hopefully in a platoon or with a backup) and spending the money elsewhere might be a better idea."

[DirtySox]

Joel Sherman

Dunn moving closer to deal, maybe to #Tigers, source says

6 minutes ago

Edited November 17, 2010 by DirtySox

[ThunderBolt]

Dunn on The Tigers is potent. We need to have a counter move in mind.

[bigruss]

Dunn on The Tigers is potent. We need to have a counter move in mind.

I think this is what KW is fearing, the Tigers improving and the Twins staying about the same could easily push the Sox out of the picture if he can't land the pieces he wants. He won't sell off a ton of pieces, but I see him staying away from FA and trying for younger projects.

[ThunderBolt]

I think this is what KW is fearing, the Tigers improving and the Twins staying about the same could easily push the Sox out of the picture if he can't land the pieces he wants. He won't sell off a ton of pieces, but I see him staying away from FA and trying for younger projects.

I'd be fine with moving in a younger direction, my fear is KW putting his eggs in the wrong basket like last year. If we're going to take gambles, they better have a high upside.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Good, I hope it's like 6 years and a zillion dollars. That Benoit signing was f***ing retarded. Kenny's one of the Uptons right now, maybe both. Kenny likes the bling.

[bigruss]

Good, I hope it's like 6 years and a zillion dollars. That Benoit signing was f***ing retarded. Kenny's one of the Uptons right now, maybe both. Kenny likes the bling.

And we'll be depleted of all young replacements, will still have those contracts to take on, and will need to sign a bevy of FA to shore up holes still.

[bigruss]

I'd be fine with moving in a younger direction, my fear is KW putting his eggs in the wrong basket like last year. If we're going to take gambles, they better have a high upside.

He'll probably try to find a young player with big upside with an unfavorable contract (think Rios, going after players with low value because of the contract but still good ballplayers). I don't see him going after prospects right now because we just don't have much that we can afford to give up that has any value.

[macsandz]

Dunn on The Tigers is potent. We need to have a counter move in mind.

 

The counter move will be Godzilla and the Tigers might want to start countering the Sox starting pitching.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

And we'll be depleted of all young replacements, will still have those contracts to take on, and will need to sign a bevy of FA to shore up holes still.

All young replacements? Probably not for BJ whose value is now as low as it's ever been. If it's Justin Upton, then it becomes "who cares?" And as far as contracts, BJ is arb-eligible and Justin is on what should become a sweetheart deal given his ability.

 

I also would wonder about these young replacements anyway and how good they'd be at replacing things.

[bigruss]

All young replacements? Probably not for BJ whose value is now as low as it's ever been. If it's Justin Upton, then it becomes "who cares?" And as far as contracts, BJ is arb-eligible and Justin is on what should become a sweetheart deal given his ability.

 

I also would wonder about these young replacements anyway and how good they'd be at replacing things.

I'm talking about our prospects, Morel, Viciedo, Flowers, Danks2, Sale (as PTBNL), Santos, etc. Those guys would have to be used to acquire anything worthwhile (obviously differing on the player). So then who plays 3B, 1B, DH, C, 7th/8th inning man, etc. You then have to overpay in FA for mediocre to bad players, or be stuck with bad players like Teahen.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'm talking about our prospects, Morel, Viciedo, Flowers, Danks2, Sale (as PTBNL), Santos, etc. Those guys would have to be used to acquire anything worthwhile (obviously differing on the player). So then who plays 3B, 1B, DH, C, 7th/8th inning man, etc. You then have to overpay in FA for mediocre to bad players, or be stuck with bad players like Teahen.

Morel would be replaced by Omar. We'd have to find someone in 2012 though. Morel couldn't be expected to produce much more than Omar as a rookie anyway. He'd hit for more power but the OBP and AVG would both be pretty low. He'd be a #9 hitter probably.

 

Viciedo has potential but for Justin Upton? LOL, see ya dude!

 

Santos - I love the guy, and I love the story, and I love the potential. But he's still an out-of-options former bust prospect with 2 seasons of pitching in pro baseball under his belt. His value is sky-high right now, and depending on the return I would not be afraid to capitalize on it.

 

Sale can't be traded anyway. He'd have to be in the org for a full year or go as a PTBNL and no way anyone takes him as a PTBNL this far out. It just wouldn't happen. He's too valuable of a piece.

 

Flowers and D2 aren't even prospects. Flower has no business on the MLB team in any role and D2 would only be useful as a 5th OF/defensive replacement/PR.

 

And lastly, if you get a guy like Justin Upton, even for every one of these guys aside from Sale who can't be traded, you run like hell because it's an enormous steal and you feel happy about acquiring a new face of the organization, another middle of the order hitter, a RF who can actually play RF, and to make Ozzie happy, even more speed on the basepaths. You don't worry about who is playing C because if it was going to be Flowers then you were already f***ed anyway.

[bigruss]

Morel would be replaced by Omar. We'd have to find someone in 2012 though. Morel couldn't be expected to produce much more than Omar as a rookie anyway. He'd hit for more power but the OBP and AVG would both be pretty low. He'd be a #9 hitter probably.

 

Viciedo has potential but for Justin Upton? LOL, see ya dude!

 

Santos - I love the guy, and I love the story, and I love the potential. But he's still an out-of-options former bust prospect with 2 seasons of pitching in pro baseball under his belt. His value is sky-high right now, and depending on the return I would not be afraid to capitalize on it.

 

Sale can't be traded anyway. He'd have to be in the org for a full year or go as a PTBNL and no way anyone takes him as a PTBNL this far out. It just wouldn't happen. He's too valuable of a piece.

 

Flowers and D2 aren't even prospects. Flower has no business on the MLB team in any role and D2 would only be useful as a 5th OF/defensive replacement/PR.

 

And lastly, if you get a guy like Justin Upton, even for every one of these guys aside from Sale who can't be traded, you run like hell because it's an enormous steal and you feel happy about acquiring a new face of the organization, another middle of the order hitter, a RF who can actually play RF, and to make Ozzie happy, even more speed on the basepaths. You don't worry about who is playing C because if it was going to be Flowers then you were already f***ed anyway.

Of course Upton is worth these pieces, but is it worth it to the Sox specifically?

 

Say you trade Danks, Viciedo, Santos for J Upton (which may not even be enough).

 

You're than looking at holes at 1b, C, DH, SP, CL still and you're funds are pretty low to fill all those spots. So as good as Upton would be on the team, is he worth more to the Sox when you combine the fact that we would have less talent around him.

[southsider2k5]

It is being reported today that the Nationals are offering Dunn arbitration.

[macsandz]

So what we learned today is the Tigers prefer V-MART over Dunn and apparently the Nats are just a fringe player for the Donkey. They did offer arbitration which seems to support that theory. It's well known KW loves Dunn and after last season's

DH debacle, the July trade deadline restraining order Nats GM Rizzo filed against Kenny and KW/Hahn meeting with Dunn's reps recently, it's safe to say this guy is Kenny's #1 off season target.

 

Dunn to the Sox may have inched closer to reality in the last 24 hours. The $40M + question is does Kenny have the dollars to sign him and how does he feel about losing a high draft pick considering the state of the system? Stay tuned.

[knightni]

Of course, Dunn may not want to sign if he can only be the DH. His agent may request a clause in the deal where if he doesn't play "X" amount of games in the field that the last one or two years of his deal are voided.

[hogan873]

I only watched Dunn play 1st base when the Nats were playing the Sox, but I can agree that he is not a good defensive 1st baseman. But, could imagine how small he could make The Cell look? I think his "bad" side (the glove) is more than compensated by his "good" side (the bat). If the Sox are parting ways with Konerko (and signs are pointing in that direction), I'd be more than happy with Dunn as his replacement.