Quin Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:10 PM) Keith Law doesn't like our minor league system. While I am w/ the people who think he has irrational hate towards the Sox, it's hard to say this has any relation to that. He writes.... How are we not close to the Marlins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 30. Chicago White Sox And they're not particularly close to No. 29, either. When you don't spend money in the draft, you're not going to fare well in anyone's organizational rankings. The new collective bargaining agreement, which clamps down on teams' ability to acquire premium talent in the draft through higher bonuses, was the result of a long-standing effort by White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who wanted to force other teams to play by his rules. This part is kind of B.S....like Reinsdorf is some lone maverick with enough power to make his will reality? It was a Selig initiative that falls in line with Reinsdorf's (and others') philosophy. Reinsdorf was a sidekick at best, not some despotic villain. Can't argue with the rankings, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Paw Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 even if he's right, f*** keith law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 01:36 PM) How are we not close to the Marlins? I still don't understand the idea that the two guys we got back from Ozzie were ranked in the top 10 for the Marlins system, but not ranked even in most top 15s in our system, yet they somehow have the better system. ?? Just doesn't seem to make sense. It's not like they have an outstanding 1-3 players in their system that push them ahead of us, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) I still don't understand the idea that the two guys we got back from Ozzie were ranked in the top 10 for the Marlins system, but not ranked even in most top 15s in our system, yet they somehow have the better system. ?? Just doesn't seem to make sense. It's not like they have an outstanding 1-3 players in their system that push them ahead of us, right? He doesn't have the Marlins 29th. That would be the Indians. And most publications that had both Marinez and Martinez in the Marlins top 10, were from before last season. 2012 rankings would have dropped them significantly after both had down seasons, even if they remained with the Marlins. Either way, going by Sickels at the moment looking at "B" prospects: Marlins Yelich: B+ Ozuna: B Fernandez: B Realmuto: B- Dominguez: B- Rasmussen: B- James: B- Conley: B- White Sox Reed: B+ Molina B+ That's it. Both teams have 8 C+ prospects. Comparisons show that it isn't even close. Comparing BP's prospects rankings of both teams is just as damning. Edited February 8, 2012 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) He doesn't have the Marlins 29th. That would be the Indians. And most publications that had both Marinez and Martinez in the Marlins top 10, were from before last season. 2012 rankings would have dropped them significantly after both had down seasons, even if they remained with the Marlins. Either way, going by Sickels at the moment looking at "B" prospects: Marlins Yelich: B+ Ozuna: B Fernandez: B Realmuto: B- Dominguez: B- Rasmussen: B- James: B- Conley: B- White Sox Reed: B+ Molina B+ That's it. Both teams have 8 C+ prospects. Comparisons show that it isn't even close. Comparing BP's prospects rankings of both teams is just as damning. Ok, that makes a lot more sense. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Castro has the ability to be a lot better than C or C+ or whatever he's rated, but the point still remains with the sheer numbers favoring the Marlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) Ok, that makes a lot more sense. Thank you. No problem. Prospect lists are to be taken with a grain of salt obviously, but there really is no arguing that the system is bad right now. Adding Molina, Castro, and Jaye certainly helped a little, but Castro's stock is down, and Jaye is far away (though I like him). The system will likely look better if/when Gavin is traded and with the 13th and 48th pick in the draft this June. That's assuming that with the CBA changes the Sox will actually spend their total allocation and start taking best players available. Edited February 8, 2012 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) He doesn't have the Marlins 29th. That would be the Indians. And most publications that had both Marinez and Martinez in the Marlins top 10, were from before last season. 2012 rankings would have dropped them significantly after both had down seasons, even if they remained with the Marlins. I've said it before and I'll repeat it. It was always disheartening to have to rely on acquiring major league players that had fallen off, but it's pretty damn sad that we now have to do the same thing with prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) I've said it before and I'll repeat it. It was always disheartening to have to rely on acquiring major league players that had fallen off, but it's pretty damn sad that we now have to do the same thing with prospects. At least we have the ability to sustain a payroll and pay for those younger, cost-controlled players. It's just that there's now such an "overpremium" on them (especially pitchers) that it's hard for KW to exploit this area as much, with Quentin being a prime example. Of course, were it not for Peavy/Dunn/Rios, we'd still be able to easily afford Carlos for this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 05:37 PM) Of course, were it not for Peavy/Dunn/Rios, we'd still be able to easily afford Carlos for this season. But frankly, I'm not sure we'd want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 04:40 PM) But frankly, I'm not sure we'd want him. I agree. It has as much to do with his inconsistency & the presence of DeAza/Viciedo, as it did with the team's budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:10 PM) Keith Law doesn't like our minor league system. While I am w/ the people who think he has irrational hate towards the Sox, it's hard to say this has any relation to that. He writes.... I like the part where he says "get the other teams to play by his rules." This is actually smart business and many owners wanted to force caps on bonuses. This way a) you don't have to pay alot of money for someone you has never and may never play in the MLB (simialr to the NFL rookie cap), 2) the teams with the most money don't always get the best players. This just shows how Law is biased against the Sox, we also may have found the reason: he doesn't like the way JR weilds power in the MLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 05:40 PM) But frankly, I'm not sure we'd want him. Agreed, Viciedo HAS to play everyday. I could go either way on DeAza, but he definitely earned the starting job based on his play last year. His to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 @BaseballDigits New #WhiteSox numbers: P's Donnie Veal (no. 46) + Nestor Molina (no. 63), INFs Osvaldo Martinez (no. 28) + Eduardo Escobar (no. 38). #mlb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 11:00 AM) @BaseballDigits New #WhiteSox numbers: P's Donnie Veal (no. 46) + Nestor Molina (no. 63), INFs Osvaldo Martinez (no. 28) + Eduardo Escobar (no. 38). #mlb Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do those numbers represent? Eduardo Escobar is clearly not the #38 overall prospect, and Molina is definitely not the #63 player in our system. Are these ratings on a 100 point scale or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 09:36 AM) Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do those numbers represent? Eduardo Escobar is clearly not the #38 overall prospect, and Molina is definitely not the #63 player in our system. Are these ratings on a 100 point scale or something? "The number that the person wears on the back of their jersey". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) "The number that the person wears on the back of their jersey". Oh..............s-m-r-t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) He doesn't have the Marlins 29th. That would be the Indians. And most publications that had both Marinez and Martinez in the Marlins top 10, were from before last season. 2012 rankings would have dropped them significantly after both had down seasons, even if they remained with the Marlins. Either way, going by Sickels at the moment looking at "B" prospects: Marlins Yelich: B+ Ozuna: B Fernandez: B Realmuto: B- Dominguez: B- Rasmussen: B- James: B- Conley: B- White Sox Reed: B+ Molina B+ That's it. Both teams have 8 C+ prospects. Comparisons show that it isn't even close. Comparing BP's prospects rankings of both teams is just as damning. The Sox system is still among the worst. But they really have improved on the draft the last few years (though this seems entirely via scouting, and they still miss the money part of the picture), and the trades this offseason bolstered the system. I would personally now put them above a couple or three teams. The Marlins, for example, have gotten worse, while the Sox have gotten better. That all said, even if I am right, we are still talking about going from 30th to like 28th. Not exactly a "woohoo!" claim to make. But it is improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 08:38 AM) Oh..............s-m-r-t Again, great reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) The Sox system is still among the worst. But they really have improved on the draft the last few years (though this seems entirely via scouting, and they still miss the money part of the picture), and the trades this offseason bolstered the system. I would personally now put them above a couple or three teams. The Marlins, for example, have gotten worse, while the Sox have gotten better. That all said, even if I am right, we are still talking about going from 30th to like 28th. Not exactly a "woohoo!" claim to make. But it is improvement. im not sure this statement is true. Sale looks like a good pick. Besides that weve had the football player from LSU who has been hurt, and when healthy has hit .236 in the minors. Walker may be too early to tell, but nobody here can be impressed so far. We've added 0 depth in the later rounds as well frankly, a couple years ago KW had his "re-commitment" to finding prospects with big upside and "overhauled" our amateur scouting....well it hasnt worked one bit yet IMO, and has only gotten worse.... this was tweeted by baseball prospectus The White Sox system is so bad that I decided to write scouting reports on the characters from Real Genius instead: http://bit.ly/xQTokq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) im not sure this statement is true. Sale looks like a good pick. Besides that weve had the football player from LSU who has been hurt, and when healthy has hit .236 in the minors. Walker may be too early to tell, but nobody here can be impressed so far. We've added 0 depth in the later rounds as well frankly, a couple years ago KW had his "re-commitment" to finding prospects with big upside and "overhauled" our amateur scouting....well it hasnt worked one bit yet IMO, and has only gotten worse.... this was tweeted by baseball prospectus The White Sox system is so bad that I decided to write scouting reports on the characters from Real Genius instead: http://bit.ly/xQTokq Mitchell said himself he wasn't healthy last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 And yet our system was rated #1 in 2000 or so and exactly how many of those players had an appreciable impact on the 2005 championship? Buehrle and Garland were really the only ones who "stuck," and Mark was mostly on the periphery of the Top 10-15 during his minor league career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 05:01 PM) And yet our system was rated #1 in 2000 or so and exactly how many of those players had an appreciable impact on the 2005 championship? Buehrle and Garland were really the only ones who "stuck," and Mark was mostly on the periphery of the Top 10-15 during his minor league career. Seriously? I had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 06:26 PM) Seriously? I had no idea. And guess who oversaw the farm back then? Kenny Williams. Funny how much things changed once he became GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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