Yoenis Cespedes traded to Detroit for Rick Porcello

[Eminor3rd]

Looking at Viciedo's numbers, he's only one year removed from .318 and two from .325. So It's not like he's never done it.

 

But put that in context.

 

Cespedes career wRC+ numbers 2012 - 2014: 136, 102, 109

Viciedo over the same three years: 98, 96, 88

 

wRC+ is essentially wOBA but indexed so you can see how it compares to league average. Viciedo has been a below average bat by wOBA in every full season of his career. Cespedes, on the other hand, has been above average every year, even if just sightly.

[caulfield12]

Cespedes is overvalued because of his ESPN Highlight reels of amazing throws created by lackadaisical defense in the first place...he's an incredibly talented athlete, but he's closer to Bo Jackson than Mike Trout in terms of translating those skills into being an All-Star caliber player.

 

On the other hand, he's probably better than Tomas and definitely shouldn't be paired with Viciedo in comps.

 

The Red Sox, before all the dirty laundry has come out this offseason, were willing to give him a $100 million long-term contract extension. (Of course, they also gave Rusney Castillo $72.5 million).

[LittleHurt05]

But put that in context.

 

Cespedes career wRC+ numbers 2012 - 2014: 136, 102, 109

Viciedo over the same three years: 98, 96, 88

 

wRC+ is essentially wOBA but indexed so you can see how it compares to league average. Viciedo has been a below average bat by wOBA in every full season of his career. Cespedes, on the other hand, has been above average every year, even if just sightly.

 

Maybe I slightly underestimated the difference between the two, Cespedes's struggles with Boston threw me off a little. He would be an upgrade offensively, but it wouldn't be a game changer.

[GreenSox]

Cespedes is a Viciedo profile player: low obp, good arm, bad outfield coverage, good power. He's better than Viciedo, but he's a similar profile. Cespedes does not fit well with a low OBP ballclub like the Sox. He fits perfectly with Oakland, which is why they were hurt when they traded him (even though cespedes for Lester is a super value trade for Oak; Oak just needed the O more than they needed pitching at that point).

It was a poor trade for Boston - I think a draft choice > 1 year of Cespedes.

 

I also understand why the Sox don't just want to give Viciedo away; he has skill. they think he might be able to harness it with another year of Steverson's mentorship. We'll see.

[SoxAce]

Cespedes is a Viciedo profile player: low obp, good arm, bad outfield coverage, good power. He's better than Viciedo, but he's a similar profile. Cespedes does not fit well with a low OBP ballclub like the Sox. He fits perfectly with Oakland, which is why they were hurt when they traded him (even though cespedes for Lester is a super value trade for Oak; Oak just needed the O more than they needed pitching at that point)

[caulfield12]

 

 

He was a CF upon his entry into the Oakland line-up, and that was his natural position in Cuba.

 

He's more of a corner guy now (see Rasmus), but he's clearly a much more capable defender than Viciedo, for example.

[GreenSox]

A .316 OBP from a power hitter is absolutely terrible. Sox have been plagued by low obp ozzie-style players for years and years.

There is a new philosophy on the southside, thankfully.

[SoxAce]

He's more of a corner guy now (see Rasmus), but he's clearly a much more capable defender than Viciedo, for example.

Obviously. That's where I was getting at.

[chitownsportsfan]

Viciedo is the homeless man's version of Cespedes. Cespedes has value, he's proven an average starter. Viciedo has proven replacement level. and yea, their skills are similar.

[BigHurt3515]

Cespedes with Alexei and Jose could only mean good things. Comfort factor along with hitter friendly park could mean good things from him. I honestly would love him on this team but we don't have what the Red Sox want unless we trade Quintana which isn't happening

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Cespedes with Alexei and Jose could only mean good things. Comfort factor along with hitter friendly park could mean good things from him. I honestly would love him on this team but we don't have what the Red Sox want unless we trade Quintana which isn't happening

 

Why would to want Cespedes who is vastly overrated and has 1 year left on his contract? He's not a good fit for this team.

[BigHurt3515]

Why would to want Cespedes who is vastly overrated and has 1 year left on his contract? He's not a good fit for this team.

 

I personally like Cespedes and like I said above I think he would fit in great with Jose and Alexei on this team. Just because he only has 1 year left doesn't mean he wouldn't resign with us.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I personally like Cespedes and like I said above I think he would fit in great with Jose and Alexei on this team. Just because he only has 1 year left doesn't mean he wouldn't resign with us.

 

Right, but if he DOESN'T resign with us, then you've traded away those prospects for absolutely nothing in return, considering Cespedes won't make us a contender in 2015.

 

I think Mookie Betts has to be the absolute #1 target from the Boston OF.

[BigHurt3515]

Right, but if he DOESN'T resign with us, then you've traded away those prospects for absolutely nothing in return, considering Cespedes won't make us a contender in 2015.

 

I think Mookie Betts has to be the absolute #1 target from the Boston OF.

 

I don't think the Red Sox are looking for prospects for any of their OF's. They want starting pitching I am sure and we don't have that to trade away. I would love to have Betts as well but just don't see them trading a young talent for prospects

[LDF]

Why would to want Cespedes who is vastly overrated and has 1 year left on his contract? He's not a good fit for this team.

 

offer Beck as the trade payment.

[harfman77]

But put that in context.

 

Cespedes career wRC+ numbers 2012 - 2014: 136, 102, 109

Viciedo over the same three years: 98, 96, 88

 

wRC+ is essentially wOBA but indexed so you can see how it compares to league average. Viciedo has been a below average bat by wOBA in every full season of his career. Cespedes, on the other hand, has been above average every year, even if just sightly.

 

To add some more context, Cespedes started playing in his age 26 season, Viciedo has not reached that age yet. Given linear development, it is not a stretch to think that Viciedo is going to be the offensive equivalent, the difference of course is that Cespedes provides additional value with his defense.

[harfman77]

A .316 OBP from a power hitter is absolutely terrible. Sox have been plagued by low obp ozzie-style players for years and years.

There is a new philosophy on the southside, thankfully.

 

Not Ozzie style, KW style. That style was evident in the players that were drafted as well as acquired. Unfortunatly that trend has continued in that Hahn era with acquisitions like Hawkins, Adolfo, Davidson, and Brandon Jacobs. All guys with huge power tools and poor hit tools. There is still hope that Adolfo can develop, but that Sox quest for RH power has really been costly.

[harfman77]

Right, but if he DOESN'T resign with us, then you've traded away those prospects for absolutely nothing in return, considering Cespedes won't make us a contender in 2015.

 

I think Mookie Betts has to be the absolute #1 target from the Boston OF.

 

Betts isn't getting traded. You acquire Cespedes along with the competitive balance pick that Oakland sent to Boston with Cespedes to recoup the prospect cost.

[Chisoxfn]

Of course, we could have predicted that about DeAza and Beckham before the 2014 season...we could have given Sanchez/Semien more of an opportunity to "prove" what they could do. Right now, one has to draw the conclusion they're closer to utility players than everyday starters on the middle infield. Obviously there are a variety of opinions on the board about all three of those guys (including Micah Johnson, who perhaps is better suited as a trade chip than future starter because of his arm/injuries/inability to translate basestealing technique to MLB level).

 

Because of the Garcia injury, DeAza and Viciedo both received significant at-bats, but it didn't create any value for the White Sox in the end. Both went from being assets in 2011-12 to being virtually worthless.

Why does DeAza belong in a sentence with Beckham? Beckham stinks and DeAza doesn't. DeAza is a good player. I also don't know what point you are trying to make. I think the major difference a year ago was we weren't in a position to contend yet and we didn't have near the financial flexibility we do today. Sox think they can contend now and Viciedo is worse then Beckham (mainly driven by his horrendous defense).

[BaconOnAStick]

I've come full circle here on Cespedes and would really be happy if the Sox acquired him. My reasons:

 

1 He fits in the lineup

 

1 Eaton L

2 Semien R

3 Abreu R

4 LaRoche L

5 Cespedes R

6 Gillaspie L

7 Avi R

8 Alexei R

9 Flowers R

 

Is not bad at all, and yea the 3 consecutive righties at the bottom of the order is a slight problem but nothing than cannot be remedied by pinch hitting (hi Carlos Sanchez). That's a good lineup, if Avi and Gillaspie play up to their potential it's a great lineup.

 

2. The price

 

I think the Red Sox expected way more interest in Cespedes this offseason and they are getting virtually none, at least none offering the price in exchange for Cespedes they imagined when they acquired him for Lester. Cespedes was not in the Red Sox plan at all but they thought he would be an asset that would net them a greater-than-Lester return this offseason.

 

That has not matierialized. Now the Red Sox are stuck with a guy they really do not want with the looming threat of getting just a draft pick in 2016 in exchange for Jon Lester. The price here could be as low as Tyler Danish/Micah Johnson + Courtney Hawkins (perhaps in a 3 way deal that nets Boston their coveted starting pitcher). That's pretty damn cheap for a guy who we know can at least play a big league OF.

 

3 He can improve

 

He may be 29 but he also hasn't been in MLB for long. Most players are not Jose Abreu, it takes them time to figure the thing out. The Sox would be buying low on a guy with great athleticism and a very nice power bat, if the OBP even climbs above .340 Cespedes is probably a 3-4 WAR corner OF.

 

I know it's cliche, but playing with Abreu and Alexei could really help him. He gets along with them (unlike Puig).

 

4. No commitment

 

If it doesn't work, well, he's gone at the end of the year. A comparable FA signing bust would create an albatross the org just has to wait out. But! If it works the Sox gain the inside track on locking him up long term at the end of next season, effectively solving the corner OF hole. It's not a win/win, but at least it's not the kind of commitment that really holds the org back.

[chw42]

I've come full circle here on Cespedes and would really be happy if the Sox acquired him. My reasons:

 

1 He fits in the lineup

 

1 Eaton L

2 Semien R

3 Abreu R

4 LaRoche L

5 Cespedes R

6 Gillaspie L

7 Avi R

8 Alexei R

9 Flowers R

 

Is not bad at all, and yea the 3 consecutive righties at the bottom of the order is a slight problem but nothing than cannot be remedied by pinch hitting (hi Carlos Sanchez). That's a good lineup, if Avi and Gillaspie play up to their potential it's a great lineup.

 

2. The price

 

I think the Red Sox expected way more interest in Cespedes this offseason and they are getting virtually none, at least none offering the price in exchange for Cespedes they imagined when they acquired him for Lester. Cespedes was not in the Red Sox plan at all but they thought he would be an asset that would net them a greater-than-Lester return this offseason.

 

That has not matierialized. Now the Red Sox are stuck with a guy they really do not want with the looming threat of getting just a draft pick in 2016 in exchange for Jon Lester. The price here could be as low as Tyler Danish/Micah Johnson + Courtney Hawkins (perhaps in a 3 way deal that nets Boston their coveted starting pitcher). That's pretty damn cheap for a guy who we know can at least play a big league OF.

 

3 He can improve

 

He may be 29 but he also hasn't been in MLB for long. Most players are not Jose Abreu, it takes them time to figure the thing out. The Sox would be buying low on a guy with great athleticism and a very nice power bat, if the OBP even climbs above .340 Cespedes is probably a 3-4 WAR corner OF.

 

I know it's cliche, but playing with Abreu and Alexei could really help him. He gets along with them (unlike Puig).

 

4. No commitment

 

If it doesn't work, well, he's gone at the end of the year. A comparable FA signing bust would create an albatross the org just has to wait out. But! If it works the Sox gain the inside track on locking him up long term at the end of next season, effectively solving the corner OF hole. It's not a win/win, but at least it's not the kind of commitment that really holds the org back.

 

There's no way in hell I'm giving up Hawkins for 1 year of Cespedes.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

There's no way in hell I'm giving up Hawkins for 1 year of Cespedes.

 

I would, because then you just trade Cespedes is July for a couple more advanced prospects than Hawkins. Hawkins for Cespedes is an exceedingly low offer, even given how overrated Cespedes is. Hawkins is so incredibly far away from the majors. His ceiling is high, but his floor is a bomb shelter.

[GreenSox]

Look at Cespedes' numbers, OPS:

2013: .737

2014: 751

Boston's getting a haul in July for those numbers?

Adam Dunn hit as well as that - where was our haul?

 

Aside from the fact that a 73 team with a thin farm shouldn't trade for 1 year players, where do people come up with the idea that Cespedes is in any way an elite hitter?

Edited December 5, 2014 by GreenSox

[Whisox05]

Ya I don't want cespedes. Seems like a slightly better viciedo to me. Plus he's only for one year. Would rather spend the same money on melky. Boston is going to be looking for pitching in the return for him. I heard something about Boston talking to Detroit for porcello/ cespedes deal.

[MDWhiteSoxFan]

Look at Cespedes' numbers, OPS:

2013: .737

2014: 751

Boston's getting a haul in July for those numbers?

Adam Dunn hit as well as that - where was our haul?

 

Aside from the fact that a 73 team with a thin farm shouldn't trade for 1 year players, where do people come up with the idea that Cespedes is in any way an elite hitter?

 

 

He put on a show at the HR derby I think 2 years in a row.