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2016 Democratic Thread

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 10:05 AM)
Eh, I think he would have a lot of Johnson type moments. I mean he pretty much brushed aside questions about foreign policy when running with lines like "Syria and ISIS are important, and we'll get to those, but what about Wall St?" I think he would have struggled with those topics and that would be hard to overcome especially when you have a fear monger opposite him.

 

That's assuming his opponent knows about foreign policy...in this case, he doesn't.

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 10:05 AM)
Eh, I think he would have a lot of Johnson type moments. I mean he pretty much brushed aside questions about foreign policy when running with lines like "Syria and ISIS are important, and we'll get to those, but what about Wall St?" I think he would have struggled with those topics and that would be hard to overcome especially when you have a fear monger opposite him.

FREE COLLEGE FOR ALL!! FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! FREE EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE!

 

Ugh his campaign was all bulls***. I don't miss the primaries.

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I cant believe Ken Bone admitted that he split his pants in his nice suit and thats how he ended up with the red sweater. Thats Seinfeld level funny

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QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 06:46 AM)
Trump also seemed to confirm that he didn't by federal income taxes for at least 20 years. Plus he had his own Aleppo moment when he was asked about what would happen if the city fell.

 

Just curious - would you pay taxes that you didn't have to pay?

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 01:35 PM)
Just curious - would you pay taxes that you didn't have to pay?

 

I wouldn't (unless I wanted to run for President and had $$$ to spare).

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To me the presumption(?) that he didnt pay taxes isnt really the big deal here. The fact that he didnt pay taxes because his businesses bottomed out so royally that he doesnt have to pay taxes is the big deal, because he is being sold as SUCCESSFUL AND EXTREMELY WEALTHY BUSINESSMAN DONALD TRUMP

 

many people have avoided taxes because of bankruptcy, not many have avoided taxes that long because of a bankrupty of that amount of money

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https://gma.yahoo.com/flashback-donald-trum...topstories.html

 

This has seriously gotten to the point of absurdity:

 

“I don't necessarily agree with his victims, his victims are terrible,” Trump said. “He is really a victim himself. But he put himself in that position.”

 

“The whole group, Paula Jones, Lewinsky, it's just a really unattractive group. I'm not just talking about physical," he said.

 

“Would it be any different if it were a supermodel crowd?” Cavuto then asked.

 

“I think at least it would be more pleasant to watch,” Trump replied.

 

The real lesson here is if you ever think about running for office or President, dont do a million interviews. Just too much information to eventually be used against you.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 01:32 PM)
NowCast has Hillary at 87.7% chance of winning. That's... high.

 

It was also pretty damn high after the convention. There's still a month till the election. I'd only worry about the numbers after the final debate.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 01:26 PM)
FREE COLLEGE FOR ALL!! FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! FREE EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE!

 

Ugh his campaign was all bulls***. I don't miss the primaries.

 

Right? What does he think we live in the Soviet Union or Venezuela?!?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 11:26 AM)
FREE COLLEGE FOR ALL!! FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! FREE EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE!

 

Ugh his campaign was all bulls***. I don't miss the primaries.

 

I'd be more than happy to pay 25 or 30% more in taxes to get all that stuff guaranteed for free. Sure beats paying it out of pocket.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:10 PM)
To me the presumption(?) that he didnt pay taxes isnt really the big deal here. The fact that he didnt pay taxes because his businesses bottomed out so royally that he doesnt have to pay taxes is the big deal, because he is being sold as SUCCESSFUL AND EXTREMELY WEALTHY BUSINESSMAN DONALD TRUMP

 

many people have avoided taxes because of bankruptcy, not many have avoided taxes that long because of a bankrupty of that amount of money

 

Sure, but that's not really the way Hilary portrays it. She moreso portrays it that he didn't help the country for all those years (last night she even listed off all the things tax dollars are used for - schools, military, infrastructure, etc.) because he didn't pay taxes. Loss carryforwards are a basic accounting practice; basically all real estate developers that have any significant holdings don't pay personal income tax. It's not exactly rocket science. Amortization and depreciation are non-cash expenses that lower the taxable net income of individual real estate holdings. When you own as many real estate assets as Trump owns, these numbers are quite significant. The fact that he took advantage of those tax laws (as all wealthy Americans should do), isn't exactly damning. It's sort of bewildering that Hilary keep focusing on it - its almost like she doesn't get it. What I don't get is why Donald doesn't just take a few minutes to explain this step by step in a debate.

 

The fact that Trump ventured into the casino business and failed, which is the source of the lionshare of the ~$1B in loss carryforwards in 1995 should definitely be viewed as a negative, but the fact that he took that failure and used a basic tax law to shelter income for the foreseeable future is something that any person in that situation would do.

Edited by ChiSox59

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:40 PM)
Sure, but that's not really the way Hilary portrays it. She moreso portrays it that he didn't help the country for all those years (last night she even listed off all the things tax dollars are used for - schools, military, infrastructure, etc.) because he didn't pay taxes. Loss carryforwards are a basic accounting practice; basically all real estate developers that have any significant holdings don't pay personal income tax. It's not exactly rocket science. Amortization and depreciation are non-cash expenses that lower the taxable net income of individual real estate holdings. When you own as many real estate assets as Trump owns, these numbers are quite significant. The fact that he took advantage of those tax laws (as all wealthy Americans should do), isn't exactly damning. It's sort of bewildering that Hilary keep focusing on it - its almost like she doesn't get it. What I don

 

The fact that Trump ventured into the casino business and failed, which is the source of the ~$1B in loss carryforwards in 1995 should definitely be viewed as a negative, but the fact that he took that failure and used a basic tax law to shelter income for the foreseeable future is something that any person in that situation would do.

Right, but that is part of the game. Trump can either take what Hillary is saying, or admit he was such a genius businessman, and under his direction making deals, all the US will ever do is win, and win so much we all will be sick of winning, he didn't have to pay federal taxes for almost 20 years because he lost so much money making great deals.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:45 PM)
Right, but that is part of the game. Trump can either take what Hillary is saying, or admit he was such a genius businessman, and under his direction making deals, all the US will ever do is win, and win so much we all will be sick of winning, he didn't have to pay federal taxes for almost 20 years because he lost so much money making great deals.

 

The large loss carryforwards from the casino business not withstanding, Trump wouldn't have paid a dime in person income taxes anyway. That's not because he doesn't make a ton of money, its because his accountants follow basic accounting laws.

 

There are a bunch of reasons to hate and/or dislike Trump - the lack of paying income taxes isn't one of them. The whole thing is stupid.

Edited by ChiSox59

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:50 PM)
The large loss carryforwards from the casino business not withstanding, Trump wouldn't have paid a dime in person income taxes anyway. That's not because he doesn't make a ton of money, its because his accountants follow basic accounting laws.

 

There are a bunch of reasons to hate and/or dislike Trump - the lack of paying income taxes isn't one of them. The whole thing is stupid.

But that's just it. Had the clown simply released his tax returns and used this as a reason to defend his "brilliant businessman" storyline, he'd be set. There's dirty s*** in there, so he won't do that. He could have shut down that argument (to which Hillary would have simply adjusted to talking about how losing $916,000,000 in one year is f***ed up).

 

But, since he's a moron, he gloats in the worst way possible and looks even more like the horse's ass he already resembles.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:40 PM)
Sure, but that's not really the way Hilary portrays it. She moreso portrays it that he didn't help the country for all those years (last night she even listed off all the things tax dollars are used for - schools, military, infrastructure, etc.) because he didn't pay taxes. Loss carryforwards are a basic accounting practice; basically all real estate developers that have any significant holdings don't pay personal income tax. It's not exactly rocket science. Amortization and depreciation are non-cash expenses that lower the taxable net income of individual real estate holdings. When you own as many real estate assets as Trump owns, these numbers are quite significant. The fact that he took advantage of those tax laws (as all wealthy Americans should do), isn't exactly damning. It's sort of bewildering that Hilary keep focusing on it - its almost like she doesn't get it. What I don

 

The fact that Trump ventured into the casino business and failed, which is the source of the ~$1B in loss carryforwards in 1995 should definitely be viewed as a negative, but the fact that he took that failure and used a basic tax law to shelter income for the foreseeable future is something that any person in that situation would do.

 

Its just not that easy to debate/argue someone who is all over the place. I think that she sometimes gets lost in the idea because in her mind (whether you agree or not) she has dedicated her life to public service. Then she is pitted against Trump, who has little to no public service in his background and I just think it gets to her that he stands up there and just rails about how she did nothing for "30 years". Maybe she could do a little better if she just kept bringing the tax loss back to his business failure, but I think she loses sight of that and just gets so fed up with a guy (who she probably thinks) is a do nothing blow hard.

 

No matter what, Hillary cant really lose with it, because at the end of the day it really hurts Trump's mystique. Most normal people probably dont have a loss of $100k in any single year, let alone $1bil. It just shows how fast and loose he is.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:50 PM)
The large loss carryforwards from the casino business not withstanding, Trump wouldn't have paid a dime in person income taxes anyway. That's not because he doesn't make a ton of money, its because his accountants follow basic accounting laws.

 

There are a bunch of reasons to hate and/or dislike Trump - the lack of paying income taxes isn't one of them. The whole thing is stupid.

There is nothing basic about our tax laws, especially those that somehow allow millionaires to pay so much less than they should have paid.

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 08:40 PM)
It's sort of bewildering that Hilary keep focusing on it - its almost like she doesn't get it.

 

She focuses on it because it looks really bad.

 

The GOP (+ Trump) tax mantra is that the rich need huge tax cuts because they're paying through the nose to support the 47% of deadbeat moochers who don't pay any. Donald Trump not paying any income taxes cuts right into that message.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:54 PM)
But that's just it. Had the clown simply released his tax returns and used this as a reason to defend his "brilliant businessman" storyline, he'd be set. There's dirty s*** in there, so he won't do that. He could have shut down that argument (to which Hillary would have simply adjusted to talking about how losing $916,000,000 in one year is f***ed up).

 

But, since he's a moron, he gloats in the worst way possible and looks even more like the horse's ass he already resembles.

 

a) he didn't actually lose $1B in one year. Again, tax laws.

 

b) I don't know if something dirty is in there or not, but when you own as much real estate as Donald owns, and presumably he will go back to that business when he loses this election, releasing his tax returns probably isn't in the best interest of his real estate operation.

 

c) His whole "brilliant businessman" line is equally as stupid. You don't become a billionaire without being a pretty fiscally intelligent person, but him not paying income taxes has nothing to do with his fiscal brilliance. Its the law.

 

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:50 PM)
The large loss carryforwards from the casino business not withstanding, Trump wouldn't have paid a dime in person income taxes anyway. That's not because he doesn't make a ton of money, its because his accountants follow basic accounting laws.

 

There are a bunch of reasons to hate and/or dislike Trump - the lack of paying income taxes isn't one of them. The whole thing is stupid.

 

Huh?

 

Without huge losses how would he not pay income tax?

 

Warren Buffet paid:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipse...2/#1d9dac00491d

 

Buffett goes on to say that his federal income tax for the 2015 tax year was $1,845,557. That amount is, he says, not unusual since his “returns for previous years are of a similar nature in respect to contributions, deductions and tax rates.”

 

Do you think that Warren Buffet doesn't follow basic accounting laws?

Edited by Soxbadger

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:56 PM)
Its just not that easy to debate/argue someone who is all over the place. I think that she sometimes gets lost in the idea because in her mind (whether you agree or not) she has dedicated her life to public service. Then she is pitted against Trump, who has little to no public service in his background and I just think it gets to her that he stands up there and just rails about how she did nothing for "30 years". Maybe she could do a little better if she just kept bringing the tax loss back to his business failure, but I think she loses sight of that and just gets so fed up with a guy (who she probably thinks) is a do nothing blow hard.

 

No matter what, Hillary cant really lose with it, because at the end of the day it really hurts Trump's mystique. Most normal people probably dont have a loss of $100k in any single year, let alone $1bil. It just shows how fast and loose he is.

 

I think her responses are deliberate. She doesn't care that he's taking the losses legally. It sounds horrible to the average joe that a billionaire isn't paying income taxes. Legal or not, it's not "fair," and people will eat that up.

 

If Trump wasn't such a moron he could easily respond to that whole issue by pointing out that every major donor for Hillary has a company that "legally" dodges BILLIONS in taxes every year. Pence sort of addressed this when he asked Kaine if he took any credits or deductions on his taxes. But it was in passing and not very direct.

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:56 PM)
There is nothing basic about our tax laws, especially those that somehow allow millionaires to pay so much less than they should have paid.

 

Writing off losses is a pretty basic tenant of the tax code.

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QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 02:56 PM)
There is nothing basic about our tax laws, especially those that somehow allow millionaires to pay so much less than they should have paid.

 

It actually is pretty basic. Like I said, no real estate developers of any size pay personal income tax. What he is doing is the same as every other person who owns significant amount of commercial real estate.

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