thegringokid Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Hi all, 1st time poster. I know Bleacher Report is to be taken with a grain of salt but it does post some credible metrics in the way the rotations were measured (WAR, ERA, K9/BB ratio, innings pitched, etc). I'm excited by the fact that apart from anything else, this front 3 should be able to take us deep into games (I'm talking 6-7 quality innings per start - I.E. we could be among the league leaders in quality starts this year). Couple that with a much improved bullpen (On paper) & you have the ingridients for a quality season. I would add I am basing this on traditional methods of projecting wins. But I would like to know if the sabre-metric gurus here agree? Link: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2347423...ing-2015/page/9 Content: Ranking MLB's Top 10 Rotation Trios Entering 2015 By Karl Buscheck , Featured Columnist Jan. 31, 2015 The Trio •Chris Sale •Jeff Samardzija •Jose Quintana Quietly, the Chicago White Sox have built one of the most imposing trios of starters in the majors. It all starts with Chris Sale, who is one of the most underrated pitchers in baseball. The lefty has been an All-Star in each of the past three seasons and was particularly impressive in 2014. Sale ripped off a 2.17 ERA and a 10.8 K/9 ratio, as he landed in third place on the AL Cy Young Award ballot. Sale is also one of the most underpaid pitchers in baseball. In the upcoming season, the 25-year-old will make $6 million. As Sale explained, via Scott Merkin of MLB.com, he's much more focused on bringing a World Series title to the South Side than he is on his bank account: "I don't want the payday. I want the celebration." The White Sox have another under-appreciated lefty on the staff in Jose Quintana. The 26-year-old has topped the 200-innings mark in back-to-back seasons and posted a career-low 3.32 ERA in 2014. Jeff Samardzija, who the club added in a offseason trade with the Oakland Athletics, rounds out the White Sox's top three. Like Quintana, Samardzija had his best season yet in 2014. While splitting the year between the Chicago Cubs and the Athletics, Samardzija recorded a 2.99 ERA. The right-hander, who's set to become a free agent at the end of 2015, also racked up more than 200 strikeouts for the second year in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (thegringokid @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 11:28 AM) Hi all, 1st time poster. I know Bleacher Report is to be taken with a grain of salt but it does post some credible metrics in the way the rotations were measured (WAR, ERA, K9/BB ratio, innings pitched, etc). I'm excited by the fact that apart from anything else, this front 3 should be able to take us deep into games (I'm talking 6-7 quality innings per start - I.E. we could be among the league leaders in quality starts this year). Couple that with a much improved bullpen (On paper) & you have the ingridients for a quality season. I would add I am basing this on traditional methods of projecting wins. But I would like to know if the sabre-metric gurus here agree? Link: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2347423...ing-2015/page/9 Content: Ranking MLB's Top 10 Rotation Trios Entering 2015 By Karl Buscheck , Featured Columnist Jan. 31, 2015 The Trio •Chris Sale •Jeff Samardzija •Jose Quintana Quietly, the Chicago White Sox have built one of the most imposing trios of starters in the majors. It all starts with Chris Sale, who is one of the most underrated pitchers in baseball. The lefty has been an All-Star in each of the past three seasons and was particularly impressive in 2014. Sale ripped off a 2.17 ERA and a 10.8 K/9 ratio, as he landed in third place on the AL Cy Young Award ballot. Sale is also one of the most underpaid pitchers in baseball. In the upcoming season, the 25-year-old will make $6 million. As Sale explained, via Scott Merkin of MLB.com, he's much more focused on bringing a World Series title to the South Side than he is on his bank account: "I don't want the payday. I want the celebration." The White Sox have another under-appreciated lefty on the staff in Jose Quintana. The 26-year-old has topped the 200-innings mark in back-to-back seasons and posted a career-low 3.32 ERA in 2014. Jeff Samardzija, who the club added in a offseason trade with the Oakland Athletics, rounds out the White Sox's top three. Like Quintana, Samardzija had his best season yet in 2014. While splitting the year between the Chicago Cubs and the Athletics, Samardzija recorded a 2.99 ERA. The right-hander, who's set to become a free agent at the end of 2015, also racked up more than 200 strikeouts for the second year in a row. welcome to the best sport forum in chi.... ref to your advance metric questions, these guys should be able to answer your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 So the best in the AL, with only the Cards, Dodgers and Nationals ahead (for the top 3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I don't think the Sox top 3 was assembled 'quietly' at all. Edited February 1, 2015 by Alexeihyeess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 11:27 AM) I don't think the Sox top 3 was assembled 'quietly' at all. Sale: not really since he was drafted first round. Samardzija: not really Quintana: pretty quiet in the sense two other teams released him and he turned into a gem with us If you're talking about how we acquired them that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegringokid Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 12:27 PM) I don't think the Sox top 3 was assembled 'quietly' at all. Maybe the writer meant to say that all 3 have become White Sox and have not been in the public eye or subjects of media attention like other pitching rotations. I could guess that would be the case of both Sale and Q (Who have never really demanded or attracted the media spotlight). They just seem to go about their business every 5 days and pitch the best they can. With Shark he does have those 4-5 years of publicity with the Cubs and his distaste for the FO there is well documented and known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegringokid Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Is there a reliable pitching WAR calculator available online? I tried the one on wahoosonfirst.com and it does not come up with a correct number for Sale based on 2014 statistics. I would like to compare the WAR of each of the top 5 rotations cited in this article averaged of the past 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 11:35 AM) The Cardinals being ahead of us is a joke. Mozeliak would trade his top three for the Sox top three so quick it wouldn't even be funny. But Cardinals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (thegringokid @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) Maybe the writer meant to say that all 3 have become White Sox and have not been in the public eye or subjects of media attention like other pitching rotations. I could guess that would be the case of both Sale and Q (Who have never really demanded or attracted the media spotlight). They just seem to go about their business every 5 days and pitch the best they can. With Shark he does have those 4-5 years of publicity with the Cubs and his distaste for the FO there is well documented and known. Yeah, I think he just means the rotation has not quite gotten the fanfare that it may have if this were another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 11:35 AM) The Cardinals being ahead of us is a joke. Mozeliak would trade his top three for the Sox top three so quick it wouldn't even be funny. Sale>Wainwright Shark>Wacha (A guy who was hurt most of the year last year and who knows if he would be as good as he was the year before) Quintana=Lynn I hate the Cardinals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Lance Lynn is someone who I just irrationally probably feel like would be a failure in AL. It's also remarkable how good his stats are compared to the handwringing about him from the cardinals fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) Sale>Wainwright Wainright threw 240 innings in 2013 and 227 innings in 2014. Sale was better per inning in each season, but Wainright threw 80 more innings than him over those 2 seasons. He's out there more than 20% more innings. For Sale to be better than these guys he can't get hurt. It really is that simple. Right now, Wainright > Sale. Chris can change that by staying healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 NL pitchers get the advantage of facing a pitcher a few times a game. Ranking NL teams pitching as superior hardly makes much sense based on that alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 05:37 PM) NL pitchers get the advantage of facing a pitcher a few times a game. Ranking NL teams pitching as superior hardly makes much sense based on that alone. This is something we can understand the impact of pretty easily. Would you say that Clayton Kershaw would be an average pitcher in the AL? C'Mon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) This is something we can understand the impact of pretty easily. Would you say that Clayton Kershaw would be an average pitcher in the AL? C'Mon. Who said anything about Kershaw being average in the AL ? 9 hitters vs 8 hitters and a pitcher . Abreu at DH , Miggy at DH vs. NL pitchers hitting. C'mon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 08:39 PM) Who said anything about Kershaw being average in the AL ? 9 hitters vs 8 hitters and a pitcher . Abreu at DH , Miggy at DH vs. NL pitchers hitting. C'mon. You specifically said "ranking NL teams as superior hardly makes much sense based on that alone". Based on that, I would conclude that a team with 5 Clayton Kershaws in their rotation should not be called the best staff in the league if it's in the NL. Yes, the NL is easier on pitchers, but that doesn't mean you can't rank them above any AL teams if they're a really good staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 07:45 PM) You specifically said "ranking NL teams as superior hardly makes much sense based on that alone". Based on that, I would conclude that a team with 5 Clayton Kershaws in their rotation should not be called the best staff in the league if it's in the NL. Yes, the NL is easier on pitchers, but that doesn't mean you can't rank them above any AL teams if they're a really good staff. How does a guy like Kershaw stats compare vs AL and vs NL? Is there a noticeable difference in ERA, WHIP, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 08:55 PM) How does a guy like Kershaw stats compare vs AL and vs NL? Is there a noticeable difference in ERA, WHIP, etc? Yes. Kershaw's sub-2 ERAs would probably be just a touch over 2 if he were in the AL and in a pitchers park for his home stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) Yes. Kershaw's sub-2 ERAs would probably be just a touch over 2 if he were in the AL and in a pitchers park for his home stadium. Not trying to be a smartass. I actually want to know what his splits look like. I can't seem to find that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 10:42 PM) Not trying to be a smartass. I actually want to know what his splits look like. I can't seem to find that information. In general, all the index stats (anything with a + or -) are league and park adjusted, so FIP- and ERA- would be great places to start comparing NL pitchers to AL pitchers. EDIT: Here's a quick league leaders table I made up with those stats on it: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...r=&players= Edited February 2, 2015 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 1, 2015 -> 05:45 PM) You specifically said "ranking NL teams as superior hardly makes much sense based on that alone". Based on that, I would conclude that a team with 5 Clayton Kershaws in their rotation should not be called the best staff in the league if it's in the NL. Yes, the NL is easier on pitchers, but that doesn't mean you can't rank them above any AL teams if they're a really good staff. You can't even quote what I said right when its right there for you to copy and paste . I said " Ranking NL teams pitching as superior hardly makes much sense based on that alone." Left out the word pitching kind of makes a difference even if your response was based on what i actually said and not what you quoted. Every NL starting pitcher doesn't face a DH a couple times a game . Impossible to prove that while NL starting pitchers stats may look better that the pitchers themselves are better based on those stats. But most assume AL starting pitchers do better in the NL and NL starting pitchers do worse in the AL. Saying the top 3 starting pitching staffs are in the NL is just way too hard to quantify because comparing the uncomparable doesnt work. Where you came up with the Kershaw nonsense is beyond me. But maybe it's me and I can't follow your logic or conclusions based on what you think I meant . Edited February 3, 2015 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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