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Sox should trade for Andre Ethier

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:10 PM)
But the Sox gave Avi Garcia a young player a lot of playing time to fight through his struggles, correct? Is he going to breakout if given another chance?

Ethier would be effective in a platoon that would include Avi against lefties. Ethier's bat if there is no decline in future seasons would be welcomed.

 

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:21 PM)
Here's my main point, I don't necessarily care about full rebuild.

 

But upon being confronted with this tremendous sellers market for pitching, I wish they would have taken advantage.

 

If there is a situation where ML assets are being undervalued, I want us to take advantage. If there is a situation where pitching assetss are being overvalued and we are not clear contenders, I want us to take advantage.

 

I just can't get out of my head the question of whether we were closer to the playoffs trading Q for a haul than doing what we are doing now, with little left in the tank to acquire through anything but FA money, which we apparently have a strict budget on.

 

If this team fails this year, the 2016-17 off season will most likely be the ultimate sellers market when you look at how bad the free agent market is. The Sox will still have all of their pitching, plus a full year of Lawrie and Frazier they could sell on.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 02:21 PM)
Here's my main point, I don't necessarily care about full rebuild.

 

But upon being confronted with this tremendous sellers market for pitching, I wish they would have taken advantage.

 

If there is a situation where ML assets are being undervalued, I want us to take advantage. If there is a situation where pitching assetss are being overvalued and we are not clear contenders, I want us to take advantage.

 

I just can't get out of my head the question of whether we were closer to the playoffs trading Q for a haul than doing what we are doing now, with little left in the tank to acquire through anything but FA money, which we apparently have a strict budget on.

 

The only reason that I disagree with you is because I saw an equally fortuitous buyer's market for the types of hitters we needed, and I think that, when given roughly equal opportunities, the team should default towards winning.

 

But yes, if we weren't in the position to buy low on Frazier/Lawrie and one fo the corner OFs we missed, I'd agree 100%. That's what I mean by evaluating context, and it's also one of the reasons you can't make plans for four or five years out.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:29 PM)
If this team fails this year, the 2016-17 off season will most likely be the ultimate sellers market when you look at how bad the free agent market is. The Sox will still have all of their pitching, plus a full year of Lawrie and Frazier they could sell on.

 

 

Unless the Dodgers try to auction off all their pitching and extra assets at one time...

 

But I jest. It will be interesting to speculate in the years ahead what trading Rodon or Q could have done (would the package coming back have allowed enough improvement offensively to make us more competitive?), but it seems we will never know.

 

It's unfortunate we're even in that desperate a situation in the first place where being stuck with Adam LaRoche is creating something of a domino effect on the rest of the roster...whereas the common refrain last year is that none of the moves made would impact our long-term competitiveness when exactly the opposite seems to be occurring.

 

It feels like we're one really good player (or two solid/complementary ones) away from being competitive with any team in the division to almost everyone on the board. It also feels like we're one major injury away from last place...and the odds of making the moves we all want diminish by the day. Suppose it's still a possibility we can wait out Desmond and Fowler until June and preserve the draft pick, but whether they will be able to make positive contributions this season is another matter altogether.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 02:22 PM)
When did I ever write that? Please show me. The one thing I have noticed from the doom and gloomers, your ideal situation is a guaranteed 3 or 4 year stretch where the White Sox are even worse than they have been.

 

Seems to me they have been attempting to fill holes the past 2 offseasons, and are still trying to fill one or two right now.

And it seems to me we've seen how well it's worked and you're ok with that. You asked me to show you where I said you were ok with where this team is and your reply then states you're ok with where this team is.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:53 PM)
Given this is from Rogers, I think it's fake leak and Sox are pushing towards the end with Fowler.

That's what came to my mind first. Although Ethier, depending on how much money they eat could make sense. And Kaplan does get Cubs inside info. He basically said they were out yesterday.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:53 PM)
And it seems to me we've seen how well it's worked and you're ok with that. You asked me to show you where I said you were ok with where this team is and your reply then states you're ok with where this team is.

Well, no, that is not what I wrote. I want the White Sox to be better. What I am OK with is the process. It hasn'

t worked out yet. That doesn't mean it won't. I expect Melky, LaRoche, and Robertson to be better in 2016. Frazier is a gigantic upgrade at 3B, Lawrie is an upgrade a 2B, Saladino has to be replacement level to be an upgrade at SS. The catching situation appears better to me. The bullpen should be a little stronger with Jones farther from surgery and here the entire season. There will be another OF in the mix. Samardzija is gone but he led the league in runs give up, so I really don't see much of a downgrade even if Johnson doesn't pan out, and Rodon around the entire season replacing many Noesi starts should at least offset any possible downgrade from last season there. All in all, this will be a much better team on paper, but they have to play the games. I think they will be good. You think they will suck. We will see who is right.

Edited by Dick Allen

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:53 PM)
Given this is from Rogers, I think it's fake leak and Sox are pushing towards the end with Fowler.

 

 

 

Rabbit anything lately on Desmond? Are they leaning toward Fowler over Desmond?

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Rangers were in on Upton too though.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:29 PM)
If this team fails this year, the 2016-17 off season will most likely be the ultimate sellers market when you look at how bad the free agent market is. The Sox will still have all of their pitching, plus a full year of Lawrie and Frazier they could sell on.

 

Which is 2 full years away.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 03:11 PM)
Which is 2 full years away.

 

? That is next off season. This is currently the 2015-16 off season.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...ould-make-sense

 

That's because next year's potential free agent class isn't nearly as strong as this one was.

 

Some of the top position players will be too old to break the bank: Edwin Encarnacion (he'll be 34), Jose Bautista (36), Mark Teixeira (37) and Adrian Beltre (38) are among those names.

 

Excluding good players with club options (because obviously the Royals will pick up Salvador Perez's option, for example), the top player in his prime appears to be Carlos Gomez. Past him it's probably Neil Walker.

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Okay, but still, if you are willing to do that next year I'm not sure why you wouldn't be willing to do this this year. The prospects from that return would still need to develop.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 03:20 PM)
? That is next off season. This is currently the 2015-16 off season.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...ould-make-sense

 

I might be on my own here, but it would be really sweet to get Fowler at a fair price this season then use the Danks/LaRoche money for Encarnion next season. Middle of the order would be scary.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 03:25 PM)
Okay, but still, if you are willing to do that next year I'm not sure why you wouldn't be willing to do this this year. The prospects from that return would still need to develop.

 

Its a fall back. If things don't work out, the option is always on the table. They didn't HAVE to do it this year, because there is a pretty good chance that the returns next year could be better, and this should still be a decent baseball team after the moves that were made.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 01:13 PM)
He played for one full year at age 24 and the team is already actively looking to upgrade. They played semien one full year and traded them. They played Sanchez one full year and upgraded over them. They traded Trayce Thompson. Micah was given 4 weeks and sent down and then traded.

 

You bring up a good point. The Sox have been pretty consistent with replacing players after determining they don't have a future starting for the team. You could add in Flowers and Gillespie as additional players the Sox replaced.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 02:02 PM)
Well, no, that is not what I wrote. I want the White Sox to be better. What I am OK with is the process. It hasn'

t worked out yet. That doesn't mean it won't. I expect Melky, LaRoche, and Robertson to be better in 2016. Frazier is a gigantic upgrade at 3B, Lawrie is an upgrade a 2B, Saladino has to be replacement level to be an upgrade at SS. The catching situation appears better to me. The bullpen should be a little stronger with Jones farther from surgery and here the entire season. There will be another OF in the mix. Samardzija is gone but he led the league in runs give up, so I really don't see much of a downgrade even if Johnson doesn't pan out, and Rodon around the entire season replacing many Noesi starts should at least offset any possible downgrade from last season there. All in all, this will be a much better team on paper, but they have to play the games. I think they will be good. You think they will suck. We will see who is right.

 

I like this post. I just hope the defense is improved enough to support the strength of the pitching staff.

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QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 04:51 PM)
You bring up a good point. The Sox have been pretty consistent with replacing players after determining they don't have a future starting for the team. You could add in Flowers and Gillespie as additional players the Sox replaced.

 

Hilarious.

 

Despite the Sox stellar record the past few years, they have decided they cannot wait to see if they can develop these players while other teams can. Do you know what happens when a Marcus Semien is a starting caliber 2nd baseman? That's one player you don't need to trade for, OR you can use those prospects you traded for Lawrie to add a different player you want to cover the other positions of need.

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QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 05:51 PM)
I like this post. I just hope the defense is improved enough to support the strength of the pitching staff.

The left side of the infield should be solid with Frazier and Saladino (provided he's the starting SS when all is said and done). The rest of the defense is iffy at best, and in a couple of spots, horrendous.

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QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 04:51 PM)
I like this post. I just hope the defense is improved enough to support the strength of the pitching staff.

I think I am liking the thought of Eithier over Fowler. I think we could get the Dodgers to pick up some of the cost even if it was on the low side and you have him for 2/3 years. Fowler is going to want to get paid and is likely looking for as many if not more years. So the years and cost will likely be close to each other. Both have good OBP capabilities, but Fowler doesn't play RF and neither do the 2 guys we will likely put out there. Eithier has played RF so you're not affecting Eaton and Cabrera by positioning them where they are not comfortable. Eithier has a better DWAR than Fowler as well.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 02:10 PM)
The other thing that's weird is the Rangers being involved. Jon Daniels is one of Hahn's "best friends" as far as opposing GMs. The Rangers have no need for Fowler whatsoever.

 

The Rangers have Gallo and Mazara ready to contribute as they've already shown they can hit AAA pitching. So assuming those two could only fit in the outfield, they have to get time from DeShields, Choo, Hamilton, Ruggiano and Moreland. Plus they have Fielder/Moreland at 1B/DH. The Rangers don't have any spot for Fowler. So basically, Sox leak that Rangers are in on Fowler and if Fowler's camp uses that as leverage, the Sox know it's bulls***.

 

 

The counterpoint is nobody thought DeShields could be a full-time player...he was more like a Conor Gillaspie in terms of potential coming into last season. Choo, obviously they invested a ton of money into. Hamilton, they want to protect as much as possible in terms of favorable hitting match-ups and from an injury standpoint. Ruggiano, like DeShields, is more a 4th/5th type than any everyday player, at least on a contending team. If you're Daniels, out of that group, who are you 100% confident about entering 2016?

 

If it was a one year deal, like the rumor on Upton, that would make perfect sense. Same with Fowler. Because Daniels is not really 100% sure about any of his outfielders (Choo has been pretty erratic/injured and has been inconsistent at best and is aging), then adding a much "sure/r thing" is/was logical enough.

 

Now long-term, obviously they are loaded with prospects and they'd have to do something with Gallo/Mazaro/Profar (who has been considered for 2B/OF as well). It's not unlike the Cubs' situation with Baez/Soler, where they have or will have too many players for all the spots but they're also waiting for the highest possible return simultaneously (in that sense, Gallo's value has been dinged a bit).

 

 

 

In the end, Upton for one year depending on the price was a no-brainer because they KNOW the QO will be rejected...with Fowler, it's likely, but not quite the same type of situation. Of course, the one year cost and risk of it blowing up overall will be much lower as well because they have so many prospects and potential replacements to make up for any mistakes.

 

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QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 2, 2016 -> 05:08 PM)
Hilarious.

 

Despite the Sox stellar record the past few years, they have decided they cannot wait to see if they can develop these players while other teams can. Do you know what happens when a Marcus Semien is a starting caliber 2nd baseman? That's one player you don't need to trade for, OR you can use those prospects you traded for Lawrie to add a different player you want to cover the other positions of need.

 

So you're using 1 player that so far has only shown the ability to hit to say the Sox aren't patient enough? You're acting like the Sox are pumping out all-star talent and and trading them for useless players. Semien has proven he can hit (ok) but couldn't field a damn beach ball at his position last year. Samardjiza on paper was a no-brainer and well worth the risk of giving up what appeared to be and still appears to be an average starting SS. And what future superstars did the Sox lose by acquiring Lawrie? Wendelkin screams middle relief pitcher if he's lucky and Erwin hasn't even pitched above Winston-Salem yet. I'll take Lawrie's potential any day of the week over those two guys whose chances to even make the majors are still extremely slim.

 

The Sox have done a pretty decent job in the past year identifying certain players don't fit on the team because their talent level blows. They finally dropped Flowers and have a legit L/R platoon that (on paper) looks to be an improvement on offense. They cut ties with Gillespie, gave Olt a one month long shot chance to impress, and then sold high on Thompson acquiring an all-star 3B. And let's be honest - Thompson is a career .241 minor league hitter. He is not the next superstar OF'er. Sanchez looks like a super-sub backup infielder and cannot hit enough to warrant staying in the lineup. He gets replaced by Lawrie who's another significant upgrade. Saladino screams one-year stopgap until Anderson is ready. If anything - they've been very patient with Anderson's development in the minors and appear to be making the same stance with Fulmer.

 

I don't see anything wrong with those moves. The Sox are incapable of producing all-star hitting talent and have been for the past decade. None of the trades they've made in the last year crippled the organization. Some of their past FA acquisitions have, but I would say that the coaching staff is just as responsible for those players failures as the players themselves.

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The White Sox are notably in need of an outfielder, ideally one who hits from the left side. With that in mind, they may have stumbled upon someone who fits that bill: Andre Ethier.

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/02/02/lev...n-andre-ethier/

 

Levine with another writeup on Ethier. This should signal the kiss of death to the Ethier rumor.

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Phil Rogers is really riding this Ethier thing. Was on the MLB Network earlier. Also named Fowler as an FA option & Desmond Jennings & Jay Bruce as top trade options.

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