SoCalChiSox

We don't know the final offers that's the problem. We know right now there is no incentive by any party to put their cards on the table, not until the last minute.

Vaughn Grissom is 1) right handed and apparently is 2) a butcher in the field. Therefore he has too many frailties to be considered a significant piece. If he's anything more than a throw in piece, a deal with Atlanta would be a disaster of biblical proportions. If ATL really wants to be the trading partner it would need to be AJSS+Waldrep+Kelenic+Grissom/Murphy JUST TO BE CONSIDERED.

I dont think we will be at that point until it's time for pitchers and catchers to report and after Snell and Montgomery sign. At that point everyone's cards will be on the table and the game playing will have to end. Deadlines force action. I do not believe our FO seriously expects 3 guys in the 35-75 range. I think they are shooting high with, as others have said, a "buy now" price and seeing if a desperate team bites. If not they are willing to continue this staredown until they get at least one Top 50, one 50-100 and a useful third piece that may not be Top 100 now but they feel may be knocking on that door at some point fairly soon. On the one hand because supply is thin and demand is high, the Sox are holding all the cards. On the other hand, the Sox have at least a 70 grade and perhaps 80 grade "step on your own dick" tool so they are quite capable of fucking this up, probably by insisting on a foolish SP heavy deal from a garbage trading partner like ATL. It remains to be seen whether the Sox losers DNA will overcome favorable market forces.

Mayo isn't happening and they seem to prefer Cowser over Hjerstad. I'm assuming because Cowser has more above avg tools and I'm sure the contact, plate discipline, defense, athleticism, high OBP appeals more to Getz than pure power. He's seemingly willing to accept 55 or even 50 power as opposed to 60 power if he's getting all that other stuff. Getz may also be afraid Hjerstad ends up at 1B. I'd be fine with either. If you can pry one of them plus Norby and Povich we are hitting three birds with one stone. If Bannister can't turn 2 of Povich, Nastrini, Eder, Bush into solid 3/4 starters to complement the ace in Schultz, then that's on him. He also has Thompson, Cannon, Mena etc waiting in the wings. They should be able to manufacture a couple decent starters from this bunch. We shouldn't have to sacrifice positional savages to get ready made studs when we have a pitching "guru".

I mean this is not an unreasonable demand at all, I'm not sure it's time to move on, tho. I think Getz first needs to wait BAL out a little bit. Push comes to shove at the edge of spring training I think BAL will/should give in. We're not asking for their top 3 prospects so Elias can declare a "win" there and save face and Norby has nowhere to play there and they still have Kjerstad plus several other OFers in the pipeline. If he thinks he can flip Santander or an existing OFer for quality cost controlled pitching he's gravely mistaken in this market. I would much rather wait Elias out as opposed to doing a deal with ATL for only pitching.

Macsandz said we asked for Cowser, Norby+something else as the third piece and BAL said no. I remember asking him why Norby and he talked in some detail about what they liked about him. I dont remember word for word what he posted but I think he said something like they see him as an athletic 2B obviously with a very solid bat and i think they loved his character too.

We've been told our FO actually prefers Norby as the 2nd piece which is strange for an FO that goes out of its way to say it prioritizes defense and its doubly strange where our top overall prospect seems headed for 3B rather than SS. I would think we would prefer a GG level SS as insurance in case that happens and if it doesn't happen you have GG 2B, but evidently not. Maybe they think Ortiz bat doesn't play at all or they are scared about age....I dunno. But I have seen people say 50/50 which would be excellent for a double plus defensive SS/2B. That he is RHH sucks but the top overall piece is LHH so it's ok. Even at 50/45 it would be fine. What are your thoughts on Connor Norby? Would he stick defensively at 2B and what is your opinion on his glove there? From your observations do you agree with his 50 hit/55 power profile?

Welcome to the forum. I think the vast majority of us here would be happy with: 1) One of Hjerstad/Cowser 2) One of Ortiz/Norby 3) Povich Unfortunately it seems your GM is being very tight fisted with prospects and our GM has a very unhealthy obsession with pitching even though the positional talent on the MLB roster for the future is more or less hot garbage aside from a very small handful of players, so it seems unlikely a deal will be done. Our FO, like it's predecessor has a Ph.D in the art of fucking up even a wet dream so I'm sure we'll be quite unhappy with whatever result comes of the Cease matter.

Jimmy any progress on the trade front?

I can certainly see how Garfein keeps his job at Pravda....uh I mean NBCS Chicago.

Come on fathom give us like some tasty morsels on something positive re Cease or Eloy...

Were gonna win like 55 games and be stuck with the No. 10 pick....lulz

So it will be Stassi/Maldonado basically splitting the time then? I'm assuming it's like a super cheap deal. Sure would like to hear they are making some headway on moving Cease and Eloy for some real pieces.

Why would we be in on the reliever market? Even if Santos is out, you've got Crochet, Leasure, and there's several AAA/AAAA scrubs that can fill out the pen. I'm not sure why we are spending money on that.

I realize why GMs have to really exhaust and contemplate the cost/benefit analysis of every alternative and also utilize whatever perceived leverage they might have, including negotiating thru the media and trying to wait the other side out. As fans though, I suspect you guys are in the same boat as we are: dying for any kind of significant move to address the teams needs. We've been arguing here about Cease's value internally for months with the same people and rehashing the same s%*# over and over. I feel if you were the Orioles GM and we locked you in a room with @Chicago White Sox we could probably have a reasonable and mutually beneficial deal done in about 10 minutes that both fanbases would be reasonably happy with rather than this 3 month Mexican standoff. And I suspect most of those 10 minutes would be you guys haggling over the third piece. @Chicago White Sox would bring in a few plates of really really hot Nashville Hot Chicken and he'd say ok, i got a couple gallons of ice cold milk waiting outside to wash it down with and some brownies too.... just say OK to Povich as the third piece...lol.

Yeah need Snell and Montgomery to sign ASAP.

I think Elias is going to try all reasonable alternatives first before giving up young savages. First they'll try to move existing OFers that are in arbitration. When that fails to return meaningful pitching, he'll try packaging said players with lower level prospects, then if that doesn't work, he will look at Burnes who will be cheaper, but if MIL isn't going to move him or if the market bids are too high and he doesn't want to go there for only 1 year of control, he will return back to Cease in a few weeks. I'd be very surprised by an "early" deal with BAL (even though I'd love to see it) unless Getz gets a very good offer from someone desperate right now and basically tells other people you've got 24 hours to top this or I'm doing the deal.

I think the problem I have with this idea if in fact it's Getz plan is that once again the FO (like it's predecessor) somehow believes they can outsmart everyone through smoke, mirrors and deception when in fact a) they've never outsmarted anyone and b) people will be able to plainly see through even basic analytic data (BABIP, FIP etc) that these pitchers are being aided by superior defense and they would be trading for pyrite rather than gold. I mean even teams that don't have floors and floors of eggheads constantly crunching numbers will be able to see this, so if this is really their plan, Getz is gravely mistaken.

Welcome to the board, Frobby. I think if BAL offered one Cowser/Hjerstad plus one of Ortiz/Norby, then IMO a deal would be likely. It doesnt seem like your GM is willing to do that tho. I would like someone like Povich as the third piece and our GM will likely want pitching somewhere in the deal. If push comes to shove and the parties are only arguing about a third piece that is not a Top 100 player I can't imagine that would kill a deal unless some other team has a mega offer out there. Honestly if Chicago is willing to forego Holliday/Mayo/Basallo and I think we are willing to do that, BAL needs to suck it up and accept Cowser/Hjerstad, Norby/Ortiz and Povich as the package. There is going to be a significant market for Cease...warts and all...given the two years of control, limited salary and good durability. You have to give something to get something. I agree that this may likely drag out till late January or even right before pitchers and catchers report. As much as us fans would like a deal done quickly because we are bored as hell and would like to get excited about new acquisitions, its going to be a staredown for awhile I suspect.

Because the same owner is pulling the strings of both and the same owner is crafty enough to hire only people who are otherwise unhireable in like positions so the GM never has any leverage to push back on what's dictated to them even if its stupid because they have nowhere else to go. We've dealt with and suffered through the agony of this same basic power dynamic forever. As a physician, you of all people should understand the danger in reopening old wounds...

That's pretty cool. "You're gonna love Joe Kelly" /sorry I couldn't resist

When we see alot of stuff that's objectively positive then people will start to be positive. We have went thru awful period after awful period with garbage ownership, incompetent FOs and a tone deaf arrogant PR department that evidently is so lacking in self awareness that it thinks its a good idea to constantly poke sticks into the eyes of its fans. If you want people to be positive dont put lipstick on a pig and call it a supermodel. IDGAF about Baghdad Scott Merkin or other state media's garbage puff pieces.

And what philosophy is that Harold? KC Royals style speed, defense athleticism small ball and doing everything on the cheap? Gutting data and analytics and hiring a bunch of crusty 70 year old scouts scratching their balls in the bleachers and claiming they "heard it" like in Trouble with the Curve? And where are the savages I was promised Harold?

That doesn't get them the pitching they need tho. No one is trading anything of value at the SP position for Santander or Hays. Both are projected around 2 WAR, one of them is actually gonna prolly earn around 12m in 24 in arb so there's little SV to use as a trade chip.

So we didn't even ask for Jorge like Bruce said? I thought Jorge and Stafura were the other pieces not just Stafura FML. Jimmy give us a morsel or two.