Look at Ray Ray Run

9 months in? Give it time? The White Sox are 102-222 in the last two years. This isn't a video game simulation, the White Sox are destroying their credibility throughout all of baseball.

I never said it would never work. I'm saying don't lie about what you're selling. This rebuild is not in a better position than the last one was. Does that mean this one can't turn out better? Of course not; I understand the laws of probability. That said, don't try and tell people who are rightfully hesitant and reluctant that it's different. The average MLB tenure for a pitcher, since 2005, is 2.85 years. A starter is slightly higher. I'd take the under on both of them easily.

How do Cannon and Thorpe have high floors? There's a good chance both those guys are out of baseball in under 4 years. The difference between this "rebuild" and the last one is that the last one wasn't starting from zero. They had players that the young players were supplementing. Anderson, Abreu, Giolito, Rodon and Reylo were already a part of the major league club. The White Sox have to find an entire roster! They also have far fewer top 10 prospects which have a much higher success rate comparatively. He's comparing Grant Taylor? to Giolito/Cease/Rodon? He isn't even as big a prospect as Reylo. One similarity between this rebuild and the last one is all the white sox bloggers and insiders are telling us how "this time, these guys are smart.... these guys are doing it differently!" Kenny Williams still catching strays in this thread when I'd give anything for a GM to have Kenny Williams level of success again.

LOL the sad thing is you weren't sure if this was parody or not because it felt so real!

A lot of risk with Montgomery imo because he was already a mediocre athlete for the outfield prior to the injury, and he's not going to get anymore athletic. Wouldn't be surprised if he's a subpar runner as a big leaguer as well. That bat needs to be great, but it wasn't a guarantee. You should give a bit more grace to someone who is switch hitting as their general bat-to-ball skills are better but I agree with you that I think Montgomery is a lot more risky that many here think and it's a profile the Sox have not had great success with.

Wouldn't hate this. I'll guess 1 year 10 million.

If he qualified, he'd have ranked third from the bottom in k-rate among starters. I wouldn't get too carried away on cannon being a reliable innings eater yet.

Certainly. The reason they're undervalued is because the skill set produces a lot of situations where the set doesn't play up at all. That said, it's a good skill to gamble on for the same reason.

What's funny is I do think the most undervalued ability by scouts and analysts alike - the ability where we've seen superstars come from borderline prospects - is bat to ball skills BUT only if they can grow into a little more power/authority. Jose Ramirez the easiest example. Mookie, Altuve and Pedroia another example although Mookie younger. A lot of time spent off top 100 lists despite good production. Kwan is kind of doing it right now with very little power.

Interesting. I'd probably prefer the SS/CF combo with both still being only 20 too.

He was awful when he pitched but he sure was lucky. I doubt that latter part will continue. If he throws 90-91 at his youthful peak his career is toast.

Development isn't linear and Zavala is 20 years old. Iriarte will be a big leaguer in some capacity, barring injury. It's way too early to judge either of those guys. Thorpe stinks.

From a raw value perspective, Getz did better than he did last year. I'm not a huge fan of trading for catching prospects in general - teams rarely-to-never trade the truly generational catching prospects. Montgomery some big tools, but I worry about his general athleticism as a defender and how he'll age in that area. If he hits, who cares, but I think he's possibly a negative defender and runner. I also think most here are undervaluing Crochet because of personally living through his injury ups and downs.

They drafted him as a starter and then dicked him around to rush him to the big leagues. They were the ones who derailed him in the first place.

No, crochet created his value. You'd have to be delusional to believe otherwise.

Some teams stock up on short stops because of athleticism and position flexibility. Sox stock up on catchers so they can create logjams at 1B and DH with guys who can't hit.

That's not how value is assessed in baseball, or in anything in life. Catching prospects have about as high of a fail rate as exists. Good times.

This is the problem I see as well. While Harold is heralding all the interest in Crochet, teams/GM's probably just want a piece of Getz. If you have a s%*# farm system and a good GM makes Crochet available, you sit it out but with Getz at the helm anything is possible!

Getz said they form right field.

It's pretty clear that Tauchman and Slater are going to platoon, and it's the plan for the year. The idea is not to trade either guy, and the hope is to steal maybe 2 WAR in right field. I don't really agree that the Sox should only make signings to flip - I think asset flipping should really only occur if the performance and leverage are there. You should be acquiring talent as to not humiliate yourself again. I really don't think some people here, even you as odd as it sounds, realize how damning it is to this organization to exist as they have been for the past 16+ months. They cannot be a turnstile organization of trash. They aren't the A's yet in the eyes of players, but they're in the room. How far this organization has fallen is incredible; say what you will about prior dysfunctions, but they don't hold a candle to the current state of affairs. I think the Tauchman/Slater combo is like a guy who acquires the bum after their one great week in fantasy. Slater looked washed to me last year, and Tauchman is a 34 year old whose defense took a noise dive last year. The issue with those two is the upside just isn't there, but I guess that's why they cost $12 and a stick of gum.

The thing I don't like about Kim is you have to pay more of a premium because he's less likely to be awful (higher floor), but his ceiling outcomes aren't that much different than other guys in his class who will be a good bit cheaper. The Sox shouldn't spend much time worrying about downside risk because they're going to be dreadful, so they should focus more on the cheaper-but-not-cheapest tier where the upside is there but there's a lot more uncertainty about them as well (lower floors).

Both on the wrong side of 30. Profars crowd number a little higher but Walkers right there. I think both get less than crowd as the crowd has overvalued post 30 non-stars the past five years.

Here's an off-season plan for people that aren't boot lickers: I'll utilize crowd sourced numbers for some - if source is off by enough I'll use my forecasts. Projected current payroll 65ish million. Goal payroll - 125ish million (this puts the White Sox in line with KC. Hardly a big spender and should put the White Sox around 23rd in the league in spending (still at the bottom for a rebuild). Free Agents: Gleybar Torres - 3 years, 54 million Hoffman - 3 years, 30 million Christian Walker - 3 years, 45 million Profar - 3 years, 40 million Trevor Williams - 2 Years, 18 million Every player above is a gamble with an upside. Torres - coming off a career worst year but still only 27. He'll never be the superstar people thought, but in that park he can get you 3 WAR if we returns to form. Hoffman - A good gamble on a guy who has come on in the past two years after he moved to reliever, could be moved at any time. Walker - There's this odd large gap between first baseman and compensation. Walker is older and likely to fall into the underpaid side of things. I don't think Walker offers much in trade value, but who knows? Profar and Williams both changed a lot about their games last year and had very positive results. The league likely may adjust back, but if they show good signs of life next year both will be tradable assets with a lot of value. The above gets you to around 125 million after filling all other holes. It also gives you FIVE MLB quality big leaguers to watch next year. It gives your team some positive variance opportunities. I'll add that I'd take O'Neil or Profar.

Here's an off-season plan for people that aren't boot lickers: I'll utilize crowd sourced numbers for some - if source is off by enough I'll use my forecasts. Projected current payroll 65ish million. Goal payroll - 125ish million (this puts the White Sox in line with KC. Hardly a big spender and should put the White Sox around 23rd in the league in spending (still at the bottom for a rebuild). Free Agents: Gleybar Torres - 3 years, 54 million Hoffman - 3 years, 30 million Christian Walker - 3 years, 45 million Profar - 3 years, 40 million Trevor Williams - 2 Years, 18 million Every player above is a gamble with an upside. Torres - coming off a career worst year but still only 27. He'll never be the superstar people thought, but in that park he can get you 3 WAR if we returns to form. Hoffman - A good gamble on a guy who has come on in the past two years after he moved to reliever, could be moved at any time. Walker - There's this odd large gap between first baseman and compensation. Walker is older and likely to fall into the underpaid side of things. I don't think Walker offers much in trade value, but who knows? Profar and Williams both changed a lot about their games last year and had very positive results. The league likely may adjust back, but if they show good signs of life next year both will be tradable assets with a lot of value. The above gets you to around 125 million after filling all other holes. It also gives you FIVE MLB quality big leaguers to watch next year. It gives your team some positive variance opportunities.