Look at Ray Ray Run

The only way Garrett Crochet doesn't net 2 top 100 prospects is because Chris Getz is our GM. I can say confidently that the pushback is 1000% posturing and that there are people around the league, involved in talent eval and player acquisition, that have Crochet in their top 10 most valuable arms in baseball given his contract, innings pitched, and willingness to sign-on for, what is believed to be, a less than market-value extension (meaning his goal appears to be stability and not maximizing every dollar).

I don't think you pass on a talent like Crochet due to rotation make-up concerns given that teams are using 10-15 starters a year now-a-days anyway.

First base also, imo, faces an over correction in WAR and are undervalued by the statistic.

I don't hate everything Manfred has proposed like everyone here, but this is the dumbest thing I've heard floated in all the rule change conversations.

Present dollars are always worth a lot more than future dollars imo. A team with a deep system would be complete morons to not move 11 mil/yr over 12 years of total control versus 30+ mil/yr over the next 2. Supplementing for 11 is much easier than supplementing for 30. One player worth 5 WAR is closer to 4 times more valuable (due to scarcity and roster share) than a player worth 2.5 WAR. finding guys like Crochet is much more challenging than finding guys like jameson taillon.

I'm not sure why these two are correlated to you. Bigger guarantee short-term deals to questionable arms indicate a prioritization of the current value of a player versus the FV. A team trading for Crochet gets both that current value component, of which the market is telling you is worth a lot, but also a FV component to help justify moving control. If Boyd is getting 2 years, 29 million it means crochet currently is worth like 2 years 90 million over same current value prices.

Where were you when baseball destroyed itself from within?

No.

Players with top line tools who have down years are punished much less by the market (value wise) than players with lesser tools with prior success. Most teams look at a guy like Robert and see the ceiling. They'll try to rip Getz off because he's shown it's doable, but it won't be because the team acquiring robert doesn't think he's a 5 war caliber player.

I said this a year or so ago, and I still think so but I sadly feel this is the expected state until he passes away and not some precursor to one prior to that. Run it like the rays so the sheets clean when I pass is his logic.

He's been a fringe big leaguer coming off a terrible year in his 30s. He was happy his phone rang.

Eddy, I actually follow the game very closely outside the White Sox. More successful franchises aren't having their GM constantly cite coaches for acquisition reasons. What does Fuller know about player development and growth? His job is to develop not chose who to develop.

Find another fringe player who signed in the last decade and is quoted as saying "they told me I was their primary/top target" or anything of the sorts. Come on man, what are we doing here?

Disagree. No fringe player needs a premium to sign anywhere. The White Sox have misread the market every year since the rebuild started. A move like this just solidifies that they still have no grasp on market moves and player values. Also, why is a hitting coordinator making personnel decisions? Jesus Christ.

Fringe players have been signing later than other players for the last five off seasons. Yet the White Sox, regardless of whose in charge, continue to overpay and over committ to these kind of players year sfter year. Top target last season, Martin Maldonado. This off season, Austin slater. These guys are probably so hyped when their agents told them we've got early offer.

Getz jumping the market again on that scorching hot commodity of former fringe guys coming off terrible years at the end of their careers.

got it.

2028-2029? How old are you? If you think the Sox aren't going to compete again (even with great ownership) until 2028-2029 why are you even still here? Sheesh. No league requires 6-7 years of awfulness to be competitive. There's zero reason a competent leadership couldn't have the White Sox competitive in the AL Central by 2026. Competitive doesn't mean the best team in the world. It doesn't even mean winning the division, but it means playing competitive baseball into the year.

So please in both your future proposals, ask for lesser talent back then you'd want because we have a bad GM. You can't tell me you're being reasonable with your expectations because of ownership and then propose trade offers that don't consider the failure of your GM. Or wait... let me guess. It's totally fine for you to live in fantasy land when it comes to trades?

To an extent, yes. We also have a lot of data on TJ injuries now and recurrence rates and frequencies. All things considered, I'd trust Crochet over the next 5 years about as much as I'd trust any average arm over that period. There's risked tied to all, but Crochet is immediate post-opp and actually had a lot of very positive signs last year.

So now we're hoping we trade our ace lefty arm, because of his injury risk, so we can acquire a 22 year old coming off TJ who has thrown 15 innings since 2022? Some of you guys really like pain.

Crochet's lack of innings is a good thing, not a bad thing. What % weight are you putting on Garrett Crochet's injury risk compared to any other pitcher - I would guess it's too much based on what you're saying. Crochet's thrown limited innings post opp AND he's changed the way he pitches. Right now, the injury risk for Crochet is a massive unknown and with any form of uncertainty, it's just as likely he reverts to the league average than otherwise. Understanding that from a statistical standpoint, there's no reason not to then approach Crochet as any other available 25 year old arm. Benefit Crochet has going for him is the limited innings. Similar to the comments I made on this board about Zach Wheeler 5 years ago when he was a FA. Difference was Wheeler had two years post-opp under his belt while Crochet has one AND Wheeler had been a starter in the minors. Crochet was 3rd in baseball in FIP, 1st in xFIP, 8th in WAR, 2nd in WAR/9 (behind Sale lol), 1st in K-rate, 15th in walk rate. He wore down a little bit, but still nearly touched 150 innings. Crochet would be on my list of 3 arms to take over the next 5 years in all of baseball. You want the White Sox to trade him so they can trade down again, just like they did with Sale. 25 million dollars is nothing in MLB. The White Sox have 66 million committed for next year and under 40 million the year after. Paying Garrett Crochet should have no impact on the team. This is entertainment and they're supposed to be keeping star talent, not always thinking about how they can move on from them. And sorry, wasn't calling you a dumb ass. Just hate the idea of trading unicorn skill sets. The last one we traded is about to win a Cy Young after already winning a World Series and we got no where near his value returned.

While it happens occasionally, it definitely gets more and more rare as you go up the totem pole of value. It sounds like Crochet will likely be locked up by whoever trades for him, so it's very unlikely he hits market. I'm so sick and tired of trading every elite talent we have. It is exhausting. It rarely ever works - we got Alexander Albertus for Chris Sale. With each trade we get worse and worse too. We get a lesser and lesser return.

because some of us don't recommend dumb ass moves just because our owner is a cheap ass. No where does it say that my strategy/process should change because our ownership doesn't know how to run a business. If you want to change how you approach process because of poor leadership, so be it, but I certainly am not going to change what I view as optimal just because Jerry sucks. This would be a lot like making horrible trade proposals in our trade proposal threads just because our GM sucks and can't evaluate talent... no one would do that because no one says, well "I'll just take less because our GM is dumb."

But chris hired a director of hitting! They now have many people in charge of all the specific areas of bad. The administrative class is here to rescue the White Sox.