poppysox

If that's our offseason...I'm disappointed and a bit upset.

Cole is very much an option. I suggested 6 or 7 years at 35 per year. Just make your best offer without being cleaver and move on. Most of the usual suspects have Luxury Tax issues where trying to fit 35 into the payroll is no easy thing. After making my Cole offer I would go after Wheeler and start talking to the lesser names. We are one of very few teams that in theory could acquire both. Pitching wins championships.

Grandal is high on my want list. Two good and experienced catchers + Collins keep everyone fresh and solve the DH issue. Also, the mentoring of two solid veterans for Collins shouldn't be ignored.

Grandal fits us better as co-catcher and part of the DH rotation with McCann and Collins IMO.

If your idea of "above average player" doesn't include the AL batting champion and the All Star Catcher...not much interested in how you evaluate above average.

Count them...we already have 10-15 high quality players. For the most part playoff winners have two or three stud pitchers. Fourth and fifth starter are needed to get into the playoffs...the stud top of rotation guys are needed to win playoff series and ultimately the WS.

No...but that is the rumor.

No...but that has certainly been the rumor.

If the asking price for Cole is 35 million for 6 years...I'd offer it right out of the box. Then I go after Wheeler while Cole thinks over our offer. Don't fool around with clever incentives. If Cole counters with 7 years at 245 I give it to him. If we by some chance we get both of them...get Grandal and Calhoun/Pederson and print the WS tickets. No more fooling around Rick. Lets get er done.

Calhoun is available and doesn't cost anything but money. I prefer Pederson but not at an overpay for a 1 year player.

I would make a Fry for Pederson trade straight up but that would max out my offer and frankly I would be a little afraid it would come back to bite me in the butt.

I agree that stud starting pitching wins playoff series including the WS. It is possible that the FO thinks Gio, Kopech and Cease will have 2 of the 3 develop into TOR guys. If that's the case...sign Wheeler or Bumgarner type. If FO thinks we lack that #1 guy...sign Cole. In the meantime...don't spend money on guys we don't need. Use that Rendon money toward the best RF and DH you can find.

Realistic upgrade.

Wheeler and Grandal are my two top targeted additions. As long as the RF and 2nd starter are above average the off season will be a success.

This is my view as well. No excuses.

80 million additional still doesn't put us in the top third of MLB payrolls. I'm not complaining...just saying the money should be there to accomplish what is needed. Wheeler and Grandal are my primary wish list candidates. Both fit exactly what we need for obvious reasons.

If Leury Garcia or Adam Eaton played for someone else we would probably be talking about them as possible RF candidates.

In time that might be Madrigal. Doesn't hit left handed but takes pitches for the man on base...hits behind the runner...doesn't strike out...can hit and run...can bunt. Seems like a right handed Nellie Fox.

His age is why he might be available for modest money and short term contract. Most of us willing to consider him like giving our young guys a chance to grow into a role. Lots of ways to go in RF. This is only one of them. None of us really have a clue what RH has for a working budget. In order to get the quality pitching we need I'm willing to cut corners in RF if necessary. I want Grandal or Martinez at DH and decent starters so RF is where I'm willing to be thrifty.

Great job of explaining how we old guys think.

Still fun to play with it.

I had Wheeler + Grandal + Abreu + Gardner + Bumgarner and a 2020 payroll $130.3

This spread sheet is addictive. Thanks bmags for a job well done.

Lets shop early at the other stores.

Agreed! Striking hard on the second tier (Wheeler/Ryu/Bumm) is probably the smart thing to do. Also, frees up money for the DH acquisitions like Grandal or Martinez and RF candidates like Ozuna, Casellanos or whomever. The #1 & #2 starters are probably here with Gio and Kopech or perhaps Cease competing for those roles.